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Re: [John_Lit] judgment in John 5

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  • SemioticSymphony@aol.com
    Hello Beata: Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 15, 2004
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      Hello Beata:


      Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead
      will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
      26
      For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the
      possession of life in himself.
      27
      And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
      28
      Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in
      the tombs will hear his voice
      29
      and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of
      life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.
      30
      "I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just,
      because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me. [NAB,
      John 5:25-30]



      Verse 24, 27, 29, and 30 have *krisin*, and *kriseos* [krisis]; the term has
      a richness about it: to separate, sort out; to condemn, judge, damn.

      You wrote:

      "I've got a lot of doubts about the concept of judment in John 5 esp.
      v. 24 & 28f. Is judgment in these two sentences the same? Is it a
      decision, division, condemnation, or something else?"

      All of the above :-) .

      The context, of course, is of eschatological and ecclesiological import,
      laying the groundwork for the theological "four last things:" death, judgment,
      heaven, hell.

      More from our Greek scholars is doubtless forthcoming. I hope my remarks are
      of some help.

      Joe C.

      Joseph Calandrino, FAAFP
      Assistant Professor of Medicine
      University Hospital School of Medicine
      SUNY Stony Brook
      Stony Brook, NY



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • baurbanek
      Thanks, Joe. I d like to add that I ve read more than 30 comments on the subject (commentaries, articles, dictionaries) and analysis of this text is a part of
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 16, 2004
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        Thanks, Joe.
        I'd like to add that I've read more than 30 comments on the subject
        (commentaries, articles, dictionaries) and analysis of this text is a
        part of my PhD thesis.
        I'm wondering if krisis in v.24 is something done in the present and
        which can change (in spite of the fact that metabainw is in perf); I
        mean people can move from the sphere of thanatos (spiritula death) to
        life if they arestening to Jesus' word and are believing (so he
        continues to od these things). Otherwise, they are judged. But if a
        man stops believing he comes back to thanatos/krisis. So, it's human
        decision in confrontation with revelation in Jesus.

        Then, after physical death (v. 28) we'll be called again by the same
        voice and divided according to the (final?) decision we've made in
        life. But the text speaks about doing good and evil - as if the
        (last) judgment was according to our deeds.

        Finally, I'm not sure if there's any connection with the Revelation's
        idea of first resurrection (with J 5,24) and second death (J 5,29b).
        And, consequently, if we can speak about second resurrection (5,29a)
        and first death (v. 24).

        Beata Urbanek
        doctorate candidate (I'm not sure what it is called in English,
        please correct me if necessary. And forgive me my mistakes.)
        Catholic University of Lublin
        Poland
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