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Re: [John_Lit] Re: Everyone busy?

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  • Bill Bullin
    ... From: Jack Kilmon To: Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Re:
    Message 1 of 43 , Oct 23 3:25 AM
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jack Kilmon <jkilmon@...>
      To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Re: Everyone busy?

      > A large part of the membership are academics who get tied up with exams,
      > etc.
      > Jack

      Having alluded to Barber's Adagio together with its dramatic silence as a
      means of coming to grips with cosmic aspects of the Johannine crucifixion,
      the dramatic silence of other list members somehow felt self -inflicted.
      With Jack's economic explanation (and without the burden of exams) may I
      raise a problem that I have puzzled over for some years?

      The Johannine shift from burial to cosmic glory is absolutely dramatic not
      only in its own terms but in terms of the history of the people associated
      with its production. If this document slowly evolved until it took its
      present form around 120 CE this 'purple shift' can be accounted for by
      historians relatively easily, (whatever else Constantine is guilty of there
      is no evidence that he presided over the final redaction of the Fourth
      Gospel, contra the implications in Dan Brown's pot-boiler novel!!!). If
      instead, (developing the biological metaphor), we posit a model of
      'punctuated equilibrium' through various additions for the developing
      Johannine community with its changing life situation, the tension is eased
      somewhat, (completed in the 90's CE). If however we are willing to recognise
      that Johannine christology reflects nothing that is not condensed into the
      early christological formula of I Cor. 8:6, we are forced to consider the
      early soteriological origins of Johannine christology. As Eduard Schweizer
      once put it :

      "Thus the Achilles heel of Bultmann's theology became more and more visible:
      it is not possible to reduce the existence of Jesus on earth to a mere
      'that,' to the mere fact of his death. A death in a home for the elderly
      surrounded by friends flowers and chocolates would have been a totally
      different event. Even a crucifixion after fifty years of successful work in
      the midst of an imposing group of followers would have been very different.
      Even if we went one step further and spoke of the crucifixion of a Jew of
      thity years of age, would it really help as long as we did not ask *who*
      this Jew was? E. Schweizer, Jesus Christ: The Man from Nazareth and the
      Exalted Lord, SCM / Mercer (1987), 3.

      John 19:19 tells us that the Roman Governor's sign read: Jesus of Nazareth ~
      King of the Jews, a sign dripping with Johannine irony. In some respects it
      seems matched by a similar statement at the beginning of the Gospel:
      Nathaniel replied: 'Rabbi, you are the son of God! You are the King of

      Is there a significant distinction, even an ironic distinction betwen the
      titles 'King of Israel' and 'King of the Jews'?
      The Johannine use of 'the Jews' has generated a huge literature. Surely the
      implication of the term 'Israel' is that it relates to the twelve tribes and
      not merely to the southern tribes. The very Jewish *Apocalypse of John* has
      much to say about the twelve tribes rather than merely the southern tribes.
      Does Nathaniel's statement represent a specific period of Johannine
      development or rather a tension between the Temple and John the Baptist's &
      Jesus' messianic and tribal expectations preserved in the Fourth Gospel?

      Bill Bullin, Private Student, East Sussex.
    • Q Bee
      ... Dear Tom+, I m very pleased to see you here once again. Your book has been most helpful in teaching the layers of the fourth gospel. I ve given your
      Message 43 of 43 , Dec 23, 2004
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        On Dec 23, 2004, at 7:47 AM, pastor_t@... wrote:

        > Hello Q Bee, Tobias and Old Friends from the J-Lit List,
        > I am Thomas W. Butler. I have just re-joined this list after
        > almost two years away. I am a United Methodist Pastor, having just
        > made a transition from serving the First United Methodist Church of
        > Tracy, California to being the Senior Pastor at Sparks United
        > Methodist Church in Sparks, Nevada.
        > I am the author of Let Her Keep It. Thank you, Q Bee, for
        > recommending my book.

        Dear Tom+,

        I'm very pleased to see you here once again.

        Your book has been most helpful in teaching the layers of the fourth
        gospel. I've given your address to several people and I hope they have
        bought it from you. It had better stay in print so that I can continue
        to send people your way. It is a very well crafted piece of work.

        Peace and blessings to all. May you find the Christ in each person you
        meet this Christmas season; and may you be the Christ to each of them.

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