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Re: [John_Lit] Re: Two anointing episodes?

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  • Bill Bullin
    Hi Tobias, Thanks for this clarification. I notice that I missed the words or just the out in my question that should have gone before the words Greek,
    Message 1 of 43 , Oct 6, 2004
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      Hi Tobias,

      Thanks for this clarification. I notice that I missed the words 'or just
      the' out in my question that should have gone before the words 'Greek,
      Egyptian' etc.

      I share your scepticism in respect of any supposed influence of the
      Egyptian mystery religions. I also have some sympathy with your
      disatisfaction with Martyn and Brown despite their popularity, persuasive
      power and influence. As with the synoptic Gospels, there are clearly two or
      (and at the most three) ancient horizons to the John document that all
      require to be recognised and considered but the task is not at all
      straightforward. My difficulty is with the bastion type edifice of the
      'Johannine community' that has been built on relatively flimsy external
      evidence and an interpretation of internal material that can be read in more
      than one way, even sociologically, not to say allegorically. I consider 4G
      to be conciously selective with a view to making powerful theological rather
      that allegorical points. For example, in principal I see no reason why the
      woman might not have anointed both Jesus' feet and head but that the author
      of 4G chose to focus entirely on the feet, linking the Ebed YHWH, and the
      'feet of him bringing good news', to the climax of the mission that John had
      been preparing the way for.

      >> P.S. Does your 2003 article's scepticism of esotericism and 4G
      >>preclude the influence of something akin to the Jewish mysticism as
      attested by
      >>the Qumran and Scrolls and in the early Jewish literature or the Greek,
      >>Egyptian and quasi-Persian mystery religions?

      >No, it does not. The article is a critique of the scholarly
      >perception of GJohn as a 'two-level drama', the theory launched by
      >J.L. Martyn and then developed above all by R.E. Brown. To summarize
      >my argument, I point out that GJohn belongs within the ancient
      >biographical genre, which makes it unlikely that it was meant to be
      >taken as a history of the Johannine community in allegorical
      >disguise.

      >Thus, I propose that one should refrain from searching for
      >veiled parallel stories in GJohn - which is, essentially, a Life of
      >Jesus. (For a somewhat similar point of view, see T. Wiarda, 'Scenes
      >and Details in the Gospels: Concrete Reading and Three Alternatives',
      >NTS_ 50 (2004), pp. 167-184.)

      >That there are connections between GJohn
      >and Qumran, Enochic mysticism etc. seems fairly evident to me; but I
      >think this kind of 'mysticism' should be carefully distinguished
      >from 'mystery religions' (such as the mysteries of Isis, Osiris,
      >Cybele-Attis).

      I am in full agreement with this important distinction.

      I also think it is important to distinguish between modern mysticism and its
      varied approaches to the text on the one hand, and an analysis of mystical
      elements within the text itself accessed through the tools available through
      the historical method. This said, I do think the text is so crafted that it
      was deliberately designed to perform the transcendental function that 'the
      scriptures', were understood to perform within the Second Temple period, and
      which many consider them still to do.

      Hope to debate with you further in due course.

      Bill Bullin (Private Student, East Sussex).
    • Q Bee
      ... Dear Tom+, I m very pleased to see you here once again. Your book has been most helpful in teaching the layers of the fourth gospel. I ve given your
      Message 43 of 43 , Dec 23, 2004
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        On Dec 23, 2004, at 7:47 AM, pastor_t@... wrote:
        >

        > Hello Q Bee, Tobias and Old Friends from the J-Lit List,
        > I am Thomas W. Butler. I have just re-joined this list after
        > almost two years away. I am a United Methodist Pastor, having just
        > made a transition from serving the First United Methodist Church of
        > Tracy, California to being the Senior Pastor at Sparks United
        > Methodist Church in Sparks, Nevada.
        > I am the author of Let Her Keep It. Thank you, Q Bee, for
        > recommending my book.

        Dear Tom+,

        I'm very pleased to see you here once again.

        Your book has been most helpful in teaching the layers of the fourth
        gospel. I've given your address to several people and I hope they have
        bought it from you. It had better stay in print so that I can continue
        to send people your way. It is a very well crafted piece of work.

        Peace and blessings to all. May you find the Christ in each person you
        meet this Christmas season; and may you be the Christ to each of them.

        Elaine+
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