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Re: [John_Lit] Re: Two anointing episodes?

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  • Bill Bullin
    Dear Tobias I am keen to discuss the aspect of the thread you highlight below but I am sure others will be too. In terms of turn-taking it seems most
    Message 1 of 43 , Oct 5, 2004
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      Dear Tobias

      I am keen to discuss the aspect of the thread you highlight below but I am
      sure others will be too.
      In terms of turn-taking it seems most reasonable for me to hang back for the
      moment. However...

      my general line would be that Luke wrote proto-Luke before having access to
      Mark and in effect combined the little he knew of an annointing account with
      a parable along a redactional theme that emphasised salvation, women,
      outcasts, Jesus and John; (he may have been influenced by proto-Johannine
      tradition of some sort, ie Jesus knew what was in a man, that is what Simon
      was thinking about him and the woman). Matthew has a parallel parable, again
      linked to the same Jesus and John material but he takes this in a different
      redactional direction in terms of conflict with the Pharisees. Perhaps both
      parables, together with the Jesus and John debate were originally found
      together in a shared source, (I won't get specific). Matthew has access to
      Mark in terms of the anointing episode. When Luke (or more probably a later
      redactor) incorporates Marcan blocks into proto-Luke he runs into a problem
      with the anointing account. He decides to leave it out in order to avoid a
      doublet, having commited himself to a conflation in his existing material
      whichhe does not wish to disrupt, I presume because it has some communal
      status. Proto-John is written taking into account readers / hearers of Mark.
      In a second addition a full account of the raising and the anointing are
      included. I am not specifying if the second addition was by the same hand
      for a different audience.

      I would however add this, I think the proto-Lucan source material together
      with the Johannine material both share a witness to the same incident being
      connected to a debate about John the Baptist; John 10:40-42 has an important
      bearing on this, as does Jesus leaving Bethany to go to Bethany with no
      parethetic explanation. If however we follow Pierson Parker's line, Jesus
      returns to where it all began, Beth -Ani, where he was annointed / baptised.
      The major commentators disagree with Parker, most repeat each other or fail
      to address the problems of two Bethanys (nicely matching the two
      annointings). Parker's position has problems. If however he was correct it
      might mean that the author of John 1:28 was writing from East of the Jordan,
      perhaps from Pella in the late 60's with a second edition being developed
      for Greek readers, perhaps in Alexandria, in the 70's and with final
      redactional material being added in Ephesus in the 80's-90's.

      Leaving aside Parker, and thinking in historical terms, I do think we have
      an historical note in John:10: 41-42 with a double emphasis on 'many' and a
      socially significant event implicitly taking place in the in the location of
      the 'House of the Poor', whether East or West of the Jordan. This 'mass
      movement' would have been sufficient to have afforded Jesus some protection
      as he entered Jerusalem, when others from the city came out to meet him. It
      seems most plausable that those that who went out from Jerusalem did so not
      simply because one man approached on a donkey but because this man
      approached with 'many'.

      >BTW, I asked you some questions pertaining to your view on the
      >relationship between the Johannine episode and the Synoptic parallels
      >(if they are indeed parallels). It would be interesting to have your
      >reply - or if somebody else would like to comment on those questions.

      I hope my thoughts help get the thread rolling. I will now shut up for a
      while and give others a turn.

      Bill Bullin (Private Student, East Sussex).

      P.S. Does your 2003 article's scepticism of esotericism and 4G preclude the
      influence of something akin to the Jewish mysticism as attested by the
      Qumran and Scrolls and in the early Jewish literature or the Greek, Egyptian
      and quasi-Persian mystery religions? Put differently, should a man born
      blind be permitted to recite the Shema, (Mishna Hagigah 2:1; T. Megillah
      3(4):28?

      All the best,
      /Tobias H├Ągerland





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    • Q Bee
      ... Dear Tom+, I m very pleased to see you here once again. Your book has been most helpful in teaching the layers of the fourth gospel. I ve given your
      Message 43 of 43 , Dec 23, 2004
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        On Dec 23, 2004, at 7:47 AM, pastor_t@... wrote:
        >

        > Hello Q Bee, Tobias and Old Friends from the J-Lit List,
        > I am Thomas W. Butler. I have just re-joined this list after
        > almost two years away. I am a United Methodist Pastor, having just
        > made a transition from serving the First United Methodist Church of
        > Tracy, California to being the Senior Pastor at Sparks United
        > Methodist Church in Sparks, Nevada.
        > I am the author of Let Her Keep It. Thank you, Q Bee, for
        > recommending my book.

        Dear Tom+,

        I'm very pleased to see you here once again.

        Your book has been most helpful in teaching the layers of the fourth
        gospel. I've given your address to several people and I hope they have
        bought it from you. It had better stay in print so that I can continue
        to send people your way. It is a very well crafted piece of work.

        Peace and blessings to all. May you find the Christ in each person you
        meet this Christmas season; and may you be the Christ to each of them.

        Elaine+
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