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Re: John 20:23

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  • David Trapero
    ... whether the ... control, ... phrase ... 20:23b as ... alternative ... task. They ... receive ... radical ... extremely ... transfers ... anyone (for ...
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 26, 2004
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      --- In johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com, "w van lohuizen"
      <BPBwalisufi@c...> wrote:
      > I am a bit late in joining the discussion, but I am wondering
      whether the
      > translation of KRATEIN should not be closer to the basic meaning of
      > KRAT*, which is essentially something like power, rule, victory,
      > (to get the) upperhand.
      > Obviously many scholars have wondered, and continue to do so, about the
      > usual translations. In the view of some they do not give a clarifying
      > rendering of
      > the phrase. One of the obstacles was the need to construct a meaning of
      > KRATEIN that rendersit as an opposite to APHIEIN. For generally the
      > with
      > KRATEIN is considered to imply to be an opposite to 'forgiving'.
      > But we may ask if it is really necessary or even logical to view
      20:23b as
      > an opposite to 23a? It could also be a variant? Or a positive
      > for
      > 'forgiving'?
      > Let us consider the crucial character of the moment described in J
      > the risen Christ appears and addresses the apostles about their
      task. They
      > will continue his message. He breathes over them and tells them to
      > holy spirit. He
      > continues and tells them that their forgiving anybody will imply a
      > change in the other: "if you forgive the shortcomings of anyone ,
      > these shortcomings have been forgiven". Mind the perfect tense! An
      > powerful and loving blessing given to the disciples by which he
      > powers of his to the disciples.
      > Is it not logical that the following phrase breathes the same love and
      > power? E.g. in this way: "Ïf you overcome the shortcomings of
      anyone (for
      > them (AUTOIS), their shortcomings have been overcome". Overcoming
      means to
      > conquer, to master, to control, to rise above. The ultimate effect
      is that
      > they have disappeared. It is a transformation. It reminds of the
      > healings and other deeds of Jesus. His saying something renders the word
      > into a reality. The spiritually blessed one has the inner power to
      > change a situation or the psyche of somebody.
      > I feel that this rendering remains close to the basic meaning of KRAT*,
      > whilst at the same time giving a meaning to the phrase that might be
      > puzzling than the usual ones. It breathes the spirit of the renewed
      > message.
      > Well, this is not a paper, of course. Thorough research is missing on my
      > behalf. Yet some explorations in the basic literature have shown
      that this
      > rendering is worth considering, even if it may have to yield
      > to a better one.
      > I am looking forward to your comments!
      > Wali van Lohuizen
      > Amsterdam, NL
      I absolutely love this interpretation! For a moment there, I thought
      I was in the presence of previously undiscovered Jesus tradition!
      Wonderful, refreshing exegesis and wrestling with the Greek text! I'm
      hoping a solid case can be made for this interpretation because this
      is the primitive community I've been looking for and I suspected
      existed all along.

      Great job and thank you!


      David Trapero M.Div.
      818 2nd St. PL NE #95
      Hickory, NC 28601
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