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Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti

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  • Ramsey Michaels
    I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren t we allowed to paraphrase John? Ramsey Michaels ... From: Mike Grondin To:
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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      I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren't we allowed to
      paraphrase John?

      Ramsey Michaels

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
      To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:50 AM
      Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


      > > And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
      > > is??????????
      >
      > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
      >
      > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
      >
      > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
      > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
      > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
      > that you have any interest in that at all.
      >
      > Mike Grondin
      > Mt. Clemens, MI
      >
      >
      >
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    • Mike Grondin
      ... And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the light of reason enter
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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        --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
        > Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
        > daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
        > to "lighten up."

        And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
        should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
        light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
        last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
        falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
        virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
        just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
        ay? (:-)

        Mike Grondin
        Mt. Clemens, MI

        p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
        to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
        to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
      • Timothy P. Jenney
        Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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          Mike,

          I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a
          Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right
          to vent your rage publicly on various list members, even when they wander
          across the line.

          The essence of academic research is objectivity, as we have already agreed.
          Your virulent anti-Christian bias is no more scholarly nor academic than
          that of any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as unproductive.

          I sought to nudge you back toward an academic discussion with a bit of
          humor. Instead, I seem to have escalated the conflict into name-calling
          (e.g. "virtual childhood"?!?).

          Perhaps I caught you on a bad day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area
          makes all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling might help.

          Whatever the case, can we now move on?

          Timothy P. Jenney
          Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
          Winter Haven, FL

          > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
          > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:42:33 -0000
          > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [John_Lit] Re: Khristos Anesti> Helios Anesti
          >
          > --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
          >> Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
          >> daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
          >> to "lighten up."
          >
          > And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
          > should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
          > light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
          > last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
          > falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
          > virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
          > just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
          > ay? (:-)
          >
          > Mike Grondin
          > Mt. Clemens, MI
          >
          > p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
          > to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
          > to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
          >
          >
          >
          > SUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > UNSUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > PROBLEMS?: e-mail johannine_literature-owner@yahoogroups.com
          > MESSAGE ARCHIVE: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johannine_literature/messages
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Mike Grondin
          Timothy- Wow, talk about virulent ! Nothing in my notes begins to compare with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my non-Christian
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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            Timothy-

            Wow, talk about "virulent"! Nothing in my notes begins to compare
            with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my
            non-Christian counter to Meehan's Easter wish that invoked your ad
            hominem attack. Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that when the
            shoe's on the other foot, it pinches a bit? Even if so, however,
            one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

            Mike Grondin
            Mt. Clemens, MI
          • Perry L. Stepp
            I m not the moderator, but ENOUGH! Let s cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light. Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D. Associate Professor of
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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              I'm not the moderator, but ENOUGH!

              Let's cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light.

              Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D.

              Associate Professor of Biblical Studies
              Kentucky Christian College

              "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
              --Faulkner
            • Timothy P. Jenney
              ... Amen! [Er, ah, I mean right on! ] 8-) Timothy P. Jenney Ph.D. Umich, 1993 Winter Haven, Fl
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                > ŠEven if so, however,
                > one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

                Amen! [Er, ah, I mean "right on!"] 8-)

                Timothy P. Jenney
                Ph.D. Umich, 1993
                Winter Haven, Fl
              • Horace Jeffery Hodges
                ... childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent your rage publicly on various list members,
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                  Timothy P. Jenney wrote:

                  >Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your
                  childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you.
                  Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
                  your rage publicly on various list members, even when
                  they wander across the line.<

                  "Wander" suggests an inadvertent, careless crossing of
                  the line. Do you think this is what happened?

                  As for "rage," I didn't see Mike expressing rage. I've
                  never seen that in Mike. Strong annoyance and an
                  articulate expression of disagreement, yes. But rage?

                  >The essence of academic research is objectivity, as
                  we have already agreed. Your virulent anti-Christian
                  bias is no more scholarly nor academic than that of
                  any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as
                  unproductive.<

                  Mike is anti-religious (it seems to me) but also a
                  highly intelligent critic who does add something to
                  this list, so I don't see that he's unproductive.

                  >I sought to nudge you back toward an academic
                  discussion with a bit of humor. Instead, I seem to
                  have escalated the conflict into name-calling (e.g.
                  "virtual childhood"?!?). Perhaps I caught you on a bad
                  day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area makes
                  all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling
                  might help. Whatever the case, can we now move on?<

                  I think that the best way to move on is to confirm
                  that this is an academic list and agree that pious
                  posts should not appear here. I've had this view since
                  joining several years ago, but perhaps I hold the
                  wrong understanding of this listserve.

                  Jeffery Hodges

                  =====
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                  Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges [Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley]
                  Department of English Language and Literature
                  Korea University
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                  Seoul
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                  Home:

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                • SemioticSymphony@aol.com
                  All: When I first responded to the khristos anesti cue, I did not even realize the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
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                    All:

                    When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even realize
                    the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                    any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                    Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have been the end
                    of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.

                    What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                    lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                    suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all commentary really
                    is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.

                    An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as this
                    one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.

                    Joe C.




                    Joseph Calandrino, FAAFP
                    Assistant Professor of Medicine
                    University Hospital School of Medicine
                    SUNY Stony Brook
                    Stony Brook, NY


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jack Kilmon
                    ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: <SemioticSymphony@...>
                      To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM
                      Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


                      > All:
                      >
                      > When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even
                      realize
                      > the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared
                      on
                      > any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                      > Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have
                      been the end
                      > of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.
                      >
                      > What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                      > lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                      > suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all
                      commentary really
                      > is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.
                      >
                      > An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as
                      this
                      > one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.


                      Rather than continuing to flagellate a deceased equine, please drop this
                      issue and return to the discussions on the literary aspects of Johannine
                      literature. The rules and protocols can be accessed at:
                      http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~fjust/Johannine_List.htm

                      Jack Kilmon, moderator
                      San Marcos, Texas
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