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Khristos Anesti> Helios Anesti

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  • Timothy P. Jenney
    Ah, Mike, Mike, Mike, Then let me at least express hope that you had a pleasant vernal equinox. [Unless, of course, you are a worshipper of the sun, which
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
      Ah, Mike, Mike, Mike,

      Then let me at least express hope that you had a pleasant vernal equinox.

      [Unless, of course, you are a worshipper of the sun, which would make this a
      religious expression. In that case, let me assert I mean this only in the
      astronomical and resultant climatologically beneficent sense, not in any
      spiritual, religious, sacred or pious way.]

      [Also, by "hope" I do not mean to imply I have expressed this wish to any
      deity, real or imagined, nor any angel, djin, sprite, leprechaun, spirit or
      oversoul, either by prayer, petition, sacrifice or just plain whining and
      begging.]

      While I myself dwell in the land of Florida where we enjoy year round
      sunshine [which some would assert demonstrates the blessing of the god(s)],
      I know that others on the list inhabit places where the sun rarely shines
      during the winter [which does not mean these folk are necessarily
      unenlightened, only that they dwell in darkness]. Thus, each year, they
      experience a bit of Ragnarok, that Norse theological expression of seasonal
      affective disorder sometimes known as "cabin fever."

      Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of daylight will
      enable you [and some others on the list] just to "lighten up."

      Peace,

      Timothy P. Jenney
      Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
      Winter Haven, FL

      > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
      > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:50:08 -0000
      > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
      >
      >> And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
      >> is??????????
      >
      > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
      >
      > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
      >
      > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
      > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
      > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
      > that you have any interest in that at all.
      >
      > Mike Grondin
      > Mt. Clemens, MI
      >
      >
      >
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    • Ramsey Michaels
      I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren t we allowed to paraphrase John? Ramsey Michaels ... From: Mike Grondin To:
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
        I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren't we allowed to
        paraphrase John?

        Ramsey Michaels

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
        To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:50 AM
        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


        > > And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
        > > is??????????
        >
        > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
        >
        > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
        >
        > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
        > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
        > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
        > that you have any interest in that at all.
        >
        > Mike Grondin
        > Mt. Clemens, MI
        >
        >
        >
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        > PROBLEMS?: e-mail johannine_literature-owner@yahoogroups.com
        > MESSAGE ARCHIVE:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johannine_literature/messages
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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        >
      • Mike Grondin
        ... And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the light of reason enter
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
          --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
          > Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
          > daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
          > to "lighten up."

          And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
          should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
          light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
          last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
          falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
          virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
          just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
          ay? (:-)

          Mike Grondin
          Mt. Clemens, MI

          p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
          to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
          to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
        • Timothy P. Jenney
          Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
            Mike,

            I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a
            Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right
            to vent your rage publicly on various list members, even when they wander
            across the line.

            The essence of academic research is objectivity, as we have already agreed.
            Your virulent anti-Christian bias is no more scholarly nor academic than
            that of any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as unproductive.

            I sought to nudge you back toward an academic discussion with a bit of
            humor. Instead, I seem to have escalated the conflict into name-calling
            (e.g. "virtual childhood"?!?).

            Perhaps I caught you on a bad day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area
            makes all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling might help.

            Whatever the case, can we now move on?

            Timothy P. Jenney
            Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
            Winter Haven, FL

            > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
            > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:42:33 -0000
            > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [John_Lit] Re: Khristos Anesti> Helios Anesti
            >
            > --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
            >> Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
            >> daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
            >> to "lighten up."
            >
            > And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
            > should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
            > light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
            > last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
            > falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
            > virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
            > just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
            > ay? (:-)
            >
            > Mike Grondin
            > Mt. Clemens, MI
            >
            > p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
            > to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
            > to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
            >
            >
            >
            > SUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > UNSUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > PROBLEMS?: e-mail johannine_literature-owner@yahoogroups.com
            > MESSAGE ARCHIVE: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johannine_literature/messages
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
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            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Mike Grondin
            Timothy- Wow, talk about virulent ! Nothing in my notes begins to compare with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my non-Christian
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
              Timothy-

              Wow, talk about "virulent"! Nothing in my notes begins to compare
              with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my
              non-Christian counter to Meehan's Easter wish that invoked your ad
              hominem attack. Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that when the
              shoe's on the other foot, it pinches a bit? Even if so, however,
              one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

              Mike Grondin
              Mt. Clemens, MI
            • Perry L. Stepp
              I m not the moderator, but ENOUGH! Let s cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light. Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D. Associate Professor of
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
                I'm not the moderator, but ENOUGH!

                Let's cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light.

                Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D.

                Associate Professor of Biblical Studies
                Kentucky Christian College

                "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
                --Faulkner
              • Timothy P. Jenney
                ... Amen! [Er, ah, I mean right on! ] 8-) Timothy P. Jenney Ph.D. Umich, 1993 Winter Haven, Fl
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
                  > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                  > ŠEven if so, however,
                  > one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

                  Amen! [Er, ah, I mean "right on!"] 8-)

                  Timothy P. Jenney
                  Ph.D. Umich, 1993
                  Winter Haven, Fl
                • Horace Jeffery Hodges
                  ... childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent your rage publicly on various list members,
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
                    Timothy P. Jenney wrote:

                    >Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your
                    childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you.
                    Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
                    your rage publicly on various list members, even when
                    they wander across the line.<

                    "Wander" suggests an inadvertent, careless crossing of
                    the line. Do you think this is what happened?

                    As for "rage," I didn't see Mike expressing rage. I've
                    never seen that in Mike. Strong annoyance and an
                    articulate expression of disagreement, yes. But rage?

                    >The essence of academic research is objectivity, as
                    we have already agreed. Your virulent anti-Christian
                    bias is no more scholarly nor academic than that of
                    any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as
                    unproductive.<

                    Mike is anti-religious (it seems to me) but also a
                    highly intelligent critic who does add something to
                    this list, so I don't see that he's unproductive.

                    >I sought to nudge you back toward an academic
                    discussion with a bit of humor. Instead, I seem to
                    have escalated the conflict into name-calling (e.g.
                    "virtual childhood"?!?). Perhaps I caught you on a bad
                    day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area makes
                    all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling
                    might help. Whatever the case, can we now move on?<

                    I think that the best way to move on is to confirm
                    that this is an academic list and agree that pious
                    posts should not appear here. I've had this view since
                    joining several years ago, but perhaps I hold the
                    wrong understanding of this listserve.

                    Jeffery Hodges

                    =====
                    Office:

                    Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges [Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley]
                    Department of English Language and Literature
                    Korea University
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                    Home:

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                  • SemioticSymphony@aol.com
                    All: When I first responded to the khristos anesti cue, I did not even realize the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
                      All:

                      When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even realize
                      the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                      any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                      Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have been the end
                      of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.

                      What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                      lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                      suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all commentary really
                      is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.

                      An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as this
                      one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.

                      Joe C.




                      Joseph Calandrino, FAAFP
                      Assistant Professor of Medicine
                      University Hospital School of Medicine
                      SUNY Stony Brook
                      Stony Brook, NY


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jack Kilmon
                      ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: <SemioticSymphony@...>
                        To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM
                        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


                        > All:
                        >
                        > When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even
                        realize
                        > the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared
                        on
                        > any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                        > Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have
                        been the end
                        > of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.
                        >
                        > What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                        > lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                        > suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all
                        commentary really
                        > is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.
                        >
                        > An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as
                        this
                        > one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.


                        Rather than continuing to flagellate a deceased equine, please drop this
                        issue and return to the discussions on the literary aspects of Johannine
                        literature. The rules and protocols can be accessed at:
                        http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~fjust/Johannine_List.htm

                        Jack Kilmon, moderator
                        San Marcos, Texas
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