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Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti

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  • Martin Edwards
    ... Sorry, Mike, I was only fuguing. I m an agnostic myself. Mart.
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 13, 2004
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      --- In johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Grondin"
      <mwgrondin@c...> wrote:
      > Do listers need to be reminded that this is not a religious list?
      >
      > Mike G.

      Sorry, Mike, I was only fuguing. I'm an agnostic myself.

      Mart.
    • Perry L. Stepp
      Mike G. wrote: Do listers need to be reminded that this is not a religious list? ... Seeing as the last post (at least that I ve received from the list) on
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 13, 2004
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        Mike G. wrote:

        Do listers need to be reminded that this is not a religious list?

        -------

        Seeing as the last post (at least that I've received from the list) on this
        particular topic went through the system at 7.15 yesterday morning, I'd say
        "No, they do not."

        Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D.

        Associate Professor of Biblical Studies
        Kentucky Christian College

        "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
        --Faulkner


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mike Grondin [mailto:mwgrondin@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 1:16 PM
        To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti




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      • Timothy P. Jenney
        Ah, Mike, Mike, Mike, Then let me at least express hope that you had a pleasant vernal equinox. [Unless, of course, you are a worshipper of the sun, which
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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          Ah, Mike, Mike, Mike,

          Then let me at least express hope that you had a pleasant vernal equinox.

          [Unless, of course, you are a worshipper of the sun, which would make this a
          religious expression. In that case, let me assert I mean this only in the
          astronomical and resultant climatologically beneficent sense, not in any
          spiritual, religious, sacred or pious way.]

          [Also, by "hope" I do not mean to imply I have expressed this wish to any
          deity, real or imagined, nor any angel, djin, sprite, leprechaun, spirit or
          oversoul, either by prayer, petition, sacrifice or just plain whining and
          begging.]

          While I myself dwell in the land of Florida where we enjoy year round
          sunshine [which some would assert demonstrates the blessing of the god(s)],
          I know that others on the list inhabit places where the sun rarely shines
          during the winter [which does not mean these folk are necessarily
          unenlightened, only that they dwell in darkness]. Thus, each year, they
          experience a bit of Ragnarok, that Norse theological expression of seasonal
          affective disorder sometimes known as "cabin fever."

          Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of daylight will
          enable you [and some others on the list] just to "lighten up."

          Peace,

          Timothy P. Jenney
          Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
          Winter Haven, FL

          > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
          > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:50:08 -0000
          > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
          >
          >> And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
          >> is??????????
          >
          > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
          >
          > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
          >
          > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
          > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
          > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
          > that you have any interest in that at all.
          >
          > Mike Grondin
          > Mt. Clemens, MI
          >
          >
          >
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        • Ramsey Michaels
          I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren t we allowed to paraphrase John? Ramsey Michaels ... From: Mike Grondin To:
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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            I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren't we allowed to
            paraphrase John?

            Ramsey Michaels

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
            To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:50 AM
            Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


            > > And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
            > > is??????????
            >
            > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
            >
            > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
            >
            > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
            > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
            > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
            > that you have any interest in that at all.
            >
            > Mike Grondin
            > Mt. Clemens, MI
            >
            >
            >
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            >
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          • Mike Grondin
            ... And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the light of reason enter
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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              --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
              > Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
              > daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
              > to "lighten up."

              And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
              should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
              light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
              last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
              falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
              virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
              just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
              ay? (:-)

              Mike Grondin
              Mt. Clemens, MI

              p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
              to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
              to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
            • Timothy P. Jenney
              Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                Mike,

                I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a
                Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right
                to vent your rage publicly on various list members, even when they wander
                across the line.

                The essence of academic research is objectivity, as we have already agreed.
                Your virulent anti-Christian bias is no more scholarly nor academic than
                that of any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as unproductive.

                I sought to nudge you back toward an academic discussion with a bit of
                humor. Instead, I seem to have escalated the conflict into name-calling
                (e.g. "virtual childhood"?!?).

                Perhaps I caught you on a bad day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area
                makes all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling might help.

                Whatever the case, can we now move on?

                Timothy P. Jenney
                Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
                Winter Haven, FL

                > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:42:33 -0000
                > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [John_Lit] Re: Khristos Anesti> Helios Anesti
                >
                > --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
                >> Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
                >> daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
                >> to "lighten up."
                >
                > And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
                > should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
                > light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
                > last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
                > falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
                > virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
                > just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
                > ay? (:-)
                >
                > Mike Grondin
                > Mt. Clemens, MI
                >
                > p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
                > to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
                > to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
                >
                >
                >
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              • Mike Grondin
                Timothy- Wow, talk about virulent ! Nothing in my notes begins to compare with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my non-Christian
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                  Timothy-

                  Wow, talk about "virulent"! Nothing in my notes begins to compare
                  with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my
                  non-Christian counter to Meehan's Easter wish that invoked your ad
                  hominem attack. Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that when the
                  shoe's on the other foot, it pinches a bit? Even if so, however,
                  one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

                  Mike Grondin
                  Mt. Clemens, MI
                • Perry L. Stepp
                  I m not the moderator, but ENOUGH! Let s cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light. Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D. Associate Professor of
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                    I'm not the moderator, but ENOUGH!

                    Let's cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light.

                    Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D.

                    Associate Professor of Biblical Studies
                    Kentucky Christian College

                    "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
                    --Faulkner
                  • Timothy P. Jenney
                    ... Amen! [Er, ah, I mean right on! ] 8-) Timothy P. Jenney Ph.D. Umich, 1993 Winter Haven, Fl
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                      > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                      > ŠEven if so, however,
                      > one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

                      Amen! [Er, ah, I mean "right on!"] 8-)

                      Timothy P. Jenney
                      Ph.D. Umich, 1993
                      Winter Haven, Fl
                    • Horace Jeffery Hodges
                      ... childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent your rage publicly on various list members,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                        Timothy P. Jenney wrote:

                        >Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your
                        childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you.
                        Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
                        your rage publicly on various list members, even when
                        they wander across the line.<

                        "Wander" suggests an inadvertent, careless crossing of
                        the line. Do you think this is what happened?

                        As for "rage," I didn't see Mike expressing rage. I've
                        never seen that in Mike. Strong annoyance and an
                        articulate expression of disagreement, yes. But rage?

                        >The essence of academic research is objectivity, as
                        we have already agreed. Your virulent anti-Christian
                        bias is no more scholarly nor academic than that of
                        any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as
                        unproductive.<

                        Mike is anti-religious (it seems to me) but also a
                        highly intelligent critic who does add something to
                        this list, so I don't see that he's unproductive.

                        >I sought to nudge you back toward an academic
                        discussion with a bit of humor. Instead, I seem to
                        have escalated the conflict into name-calling (e.g.
                        "virtual childhood"?!?). Perhaps I caught you on a bad
                        day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area makes
                        all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling
                        might help. Whatever the case, can we now move on?<

                        I think that the best way to move on is to confirm
                        that this is an academic list and agree that pious
                        posts should not appear here. I've had this view since
                        joining several years ago, but perhaps I hold the
                        wrong understanding of this listserve.

                        Jeffery Hodges

                        =====
                        Office:

                        Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges [Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley]
                        Department of English Language and Literature
                        Korea University
                        136-701 Anam-dong, Seongbuk-gu
                        Seoul
                        South Korea

                        Home:

                        Sun-Ae Hwang and Horace Jeffery Hodges
                        Seo-Dong 125-2
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                      • SemioticSymphony@aol.com
                        All: When I first responded to the khristos anesti cue, I did not even realize the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
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                          All:

                          When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even realize
                          the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                          any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                          Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have been the end
                          of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.

                          What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                          lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                          suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all commentary really
                          is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.

                          An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as this
                          one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.

                          Joe C.




                          Joseph Calandrino, FAAFP
                          Assistant Professor of Medicine
                          University Hospital School of Medicine
                          SUNY Stony Brook
                          Stony Brook, NY


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jack Kilmon
                          ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
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                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: <SemioticSymphony@...>
                            To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM
                            Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


                            > All:
                            >
                            > When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even
                            realize
                            > the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared
                            on
                            > any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                            > Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have
                            been the end
                            > of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.
                            >
                            > What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                            > lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                            > suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all
                            commentary really
                            > is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.
                            >
                            > An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as
                            this
                            > one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.


                            Rather than continuing to flagellate a deceased equine, please drop this
                            issue and return to the discussions on the literary aspects of Johannine
                            literature. The rules and protocols can be accessed at:
                            http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~fjust/Johannine_List.htm

                            Jack Kilmon, moderator
                            San Marcos, Texas
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