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Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti

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  • Martin Edwards
    ... Sorry, Mike, I was only fuguing. I m an agnostic myself. Mart.
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 13, 2004
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      --- In johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Grondin"
      <mwgrondin@c...> wrote:
      > Do listers need to be reminded that this is not a religious list?
      >
      > Mike G.

      Sorry, Mike, I was only fuguing. I'm an agnostic myself.

      Mart.
    • Perry L. Stepp
      Mike G. wrote: Do listers need to be reminded that this is not a religious list? ... Seeing as the last post (at least that I ve received from the list) on
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 13, 2004
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        Mike G. wrote:

        Do listers need to be reminded that this is not a religious list?

        -------

        Seeing as the last post (at least that I've received from the list) on this
        particular topic went through the system at 7.15 yesterday morning, I'd say
        "No, they do not."

        Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D.

        Associate Professor of Biblical Studies
        Kentucky Christian College

        "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
        --Faulkner


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Mike Grondin [mailto:mwgrondin@...]
        Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 1:16 PM
        To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti




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      • Mike Grondin
        ... Perhaps you remember yourself writing: May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always! If you call this (and your irrelevant poetry ) simply
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 13, 2004
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          > And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
          > is??????????

          Perhaps you remember yourself writing:

          "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"

          If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
          a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
          of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
          that you have any interest in that at all.

          Mike Grondin
          Mt. Clemens, MI
        • Timothy P. Jenney
          Ah, Mike, Mike, Mike, Then let me at least express hope that you had a pleasant vernal equinox. [Unless, of course, you are a worshipper of the sun, which
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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            Ah, Mike, Mike, Mike,

            Then let me at least express hope that you had a pleasant vernal equinox.

            [Unless, of course, you are a worshipper of the sun, which would make this a
            religious expression. In that case, let me assert I mean this only in the
            astronomical and resultant climatologically beneficent sense, not in any
            spiritual, religious, sacred or pious way.]

            [Also, by "hope" I do not mean to imply I have expressed this wish to any
            deity, real or imagined, nor any angel, djin, sprite, leprechaun, spirit or
            oversoul, either by prayer, petition, sacrifice or just plain whining and
            begging.]

            While I myself dwell in the land of Florida where we enjoy year round
            sunshine [which some would assert demonstrates the blessing of the god(s)],
            I know that others on the list inhabit places where the sun rarely shines
            during the winter [which does not mean these folk are necessarily
            unenlightened, only that they dwell in darkness]. Thus, each year, they
            experience a bit of Ragnarok, that Norse theological expression of seasonal
            affective disorder sometimes known as "cabin fever."

            Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of daylight will
            enable you [and some others on the list] just to "lighten up."

            Peace,

            Timothy P. Jenney
            Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
            Winter Haven, FL

            > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
            > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 04:50:08 -0000
            > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
            >
            >> And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
            >> is??????????
            >
            > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
            >
            > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
            >
            > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
            > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
            > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
            > that you have any interest in that at all.
            >
            > Mike Grondin
            > Mt. Clemens, MI
            >
            >
            >
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          • Ramsey Michaels
            I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren t we allowed to paraphrase John? Ramsey Michaels ... From: Mike Grondin To:
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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              I thought he was just paraphrasing John 16:22b. Aren't we allowed to
              paraphrase John?

              Ramsey Michaels

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
              To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 12:50 AM
              Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


              > > And your problem with wishing the rest of the list a Happy Easter
              > > is??????????
              >
              > Perhaps you remember yourself writing:
              >
              > "May the joy of the Risen Christ be yours today and always!"
              >
              > If you call this (and your irrelevant "poetry") simply "wishing ...
              > a Happy Easter", one shudders to think how inaccurate your analysis
              > of Johannine writings will turn out to be - assuming, of course,
              > that you have any interest in that at all.
              >
              > Mike Grondin
              > Mt. Clemens, MI
              >
              >
              >
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              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
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              >
            • Mike Grondin
              ... And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the light of reason enter
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
                > Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
                > daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
                > to "lighten up."

                And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
                should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
                light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
                last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
                falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
                virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
                just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
                ay? (:-)

                Mike Grondin
                Mt. Clemens, MI

                p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
                to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
                to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
              • Timothy P. Jenney
                Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                  Mike,

                  I am truly sorry that you have allowed your childhood experience as a
                  Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right
                  to vent your rage publicly on various list members, even when they wander
                  across the line.

                  The essence of academic research is objectivity, as we have already agreed.
                  Your virulent anti-Christian bias is no more scholarly nor academic than
                  that of any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as unproductive.

                  I sought to nudge you back toward an academic discussion with a bit of
                  humor. Instead, I seem to have escalated the conflict into name-calling
                  (e.g. "virtual childhood"?!?).

                  Perhaps I caught you on a bad day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area
                  makes all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling might help.

                  Whatever the case, can we now move on?

                  Timothy P. Jenney
                  Ph.D. (UMich, 1993)
                  Winter Haven, FL

                  > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                  > Reply-To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:42:33 -0000
                  > To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [John_Lit] Re: Khristos Anesti> Helios Anesti
                  >
                  > --- Timothy P. Jenney wrote:
                  >> Thus, with Spring upon us, I hope the increasing amount of
                  >> daylight will enable you [and some others on the list] just
                  >> to "lighten up."
                  >
                  > And allow this to be made into a Christian chat-room? Or perhaps I
                  > should express my own hopes that one day humankind will let the
                  > light of reason enter fully into their hearts so that they can at
                  > last free themselves of those ancient myths, fantasies, and outright
                  > falsehoods about "God" and "his chosen ones" that keep them bound in
                  > virtual childhood. Then, when the moderators come down on me, I'll
                  > just tell them to forget the purposes of the list and "lighten up",
                  > ay? (:-)
                  >
                  > Mike Grondin
                  > Mt. Clemens, MI
                  >
                  > p.s. to Ramsey Michaels: The "he" is a "she" (Roberta Meehan), and
                  > to "paraphrase John" in that way - with no scholarly purpose - is
                  > to propagandize in the same way that John did. -MWG
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                • Mike Grondin
                  Timothy- Wow, talk about virulent ! Nothing in my notes begins to compare with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my non-Christian
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                    Timothy-

                    Wow, talk about "virulent"! Nothing in my notes begins to compare
                    with the personal attack you saw fit to post. Evidently, it was my
                    non-Christian counter to Meehan's Easter wish that invoked your ad
                    hominem attack. Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that when the
                    shoe's on the other foot, it pinches a bit? Even if so, however,
                    one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

                    Mike Grondin
                    Mt. Clemens, MI
                  • Perry L. Stepp
                    I m not the moderator, but ENOUGH! Let s cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light. Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D. Associate Professor of
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                      I'm not the moderator, but ENOUGH!

                      Let's cut the snarling, folks. A little less heat might produce more light.

                      Perry L. Stepp, Ph.D.

                      Associate Professor of Biblical Studies
                      Kentucky Christian College

                      "The past is never dead. It's not even past."
                      --Faulkner
                    • Timothy P. Jenney
                      ... Amen! [Er, ah, I mean right on! ] 8-) Timothy P. Jenney Ph.D. Umich, 1993 Winter Haven, Fl
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                        > From: "Mike Grondin" <mwgrondin@...>
                        > ŠEven if so, however,
                        > one should still adhere to the list rule against personal attacks.

                        Amen! [Er, ah, I mean "right on!"] 8-)

                        Timothy P. Jenney
                        Ph.D. Umich, 1993
                        Winter Haven, Fl
                      • Horace Jeffery Hodges
                        ... childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you. Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent your rage publicly on various list members,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 14, 2004
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                          Timothy P. Jenney wrote:

                          >Mike, I am truly sorry that you have allowed your
                          childhood experience as a Catholic to so embitter you.
                          Nevertheless, it does not give you the right to vent
                          your rage publicly on various list members, even when
                          they wander across the line.<

                          "Wander" suggests an inadvertent, careless crossing of
                          the line. Do you think this is what happened?

                          As for "rage," I didn't see Mike expressing rage. I've
                          never seen that in Mike. Strong annoyance and an
                          articulate expression of disagreement, yes. But rage?

                          >The essence of academic research is objectivity, as
                          we have already agreed. Your virulent anti-Christian
                          bias is no more scholarly nor academic than that of
                          any rabid fundamentalist Christian--and it is just as
                          unproductive.<

                          Mike is anti-religious (it seems to me) but also a
                          highly intelligent critic who does add something to
                          this list, so I don't see that he's unproductive.

                          >I sought to nudge you back toward an academic
                          discussion with a bit of humor. Instead, I seem to
                          have escalated the conflict into name-calling (e.g.
                          "virtual childhood"?!?). Perhaps I caught you on a bad
                          day. Or perhaps your sensitivity in this area makes
                          all your days bad. In the latter case, counseling
                          might help. Whatever the case, can we now move on?<

                          I think that the best way to move on is to confirm
                          that this is an academic list and agree that pious
                          posts should not appear here. I've had this view since
                          joining several years ago, but perhaps I hold the
                          wrong understanding of this listserve.

                          Jeffery Hodges

                          =====
                          Office:

                          Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges [Ph.D., History, U.C. Berkeley]
                          Department of English Language and Literature
                          Korea University
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                          Home:

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                        • SemioticSymphony@aol.com
                          All: When I first responded to the khristos anesti cue, I did not even realize the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
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                            All:

                            When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even realize
                            the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared on
                            any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                            Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have been the end
                            of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.

                            What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                            lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                            suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all commentary really
                            is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.

                            An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as this
                            one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.

                            Joe C.




                            Joseph Calandrino, FAAFP
                            Assistant Professor of Medicine
                            University Hospital School of Medicine
                            SUNY Stony Brook
                            Stony Brook, NY


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Jack Kilmon
                            ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 15, 2004
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                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: <SemioticSymphony@...>
                              To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:54 AM
                              Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Khristos Anesti


                              > All:
                              >
                              > When I first responded to the "khristos anesti" cue, I did not even
                              realize
                              > the post appeared on the John Lit list, thinking instead that it appeared
                              on
                              > any number of lists I read. I simply responded with the traditional Greek
                              > Orthodox rejoinder, "indeed he is risen," and I thought that would have
                              been the end
                              > of it, regardless of the forum in which the thread appeared.
                              >
                              > What has followed is the typical disclaimer about scholarly and academic
                              > lists, which appeals to various types of objectivity. I suggest we all be
                              > suspicious of "objectivity," and realize just how 'interested' all
                              commentary really
                              > is. That approach would indeed be scholarly.
                              >
                              > An Easter greeting seems to be a most forgivable sin on a forum such as
                              this
                              > one, regardless of its self-understanding as essentially non-religious.


                              Rather than continuing to flagellate a deceased equine, please drop this
                              issue and return to the discussions on the literary aspects of Johannine
                              literature. The rules and protocols can be accessed at:
                              http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~fjust/Johannine_List.htm

                              Jack Kilmon, moderator
                              San Marcos, Texas
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