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Re: [John_Lit] The Passion

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... It s the silent but spear wielding soldier from John 19:34 who makes no confession as in Mark or proclaims Jesus to be innocent as in Luke (but see the
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 1, 2004
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      Ramsey Michaels wrote:

      > I sent this before, but it didn't seem to make it to the list. Pardon me if it turns out to be a duplication.
      >
      > I would like to get anyone's take on the spear thrust in John in the Gibson film. Did the Roman soldier in
      > fact bow down before the crucified Christ when the blood and water spattered
      > on him? And do you think this was supposed to hint at the centurion in Mark?
      >

      It's the silent but spear wielding soldier from John 19:34 who makes no confession as in Mark or proclaims Jesus
      to be innocent as in Luke (but see the Acts of Pilate). Is he not named in the film as Longinus, as later
      tradition named him?. And he is literally washed in the blood and baptized in the war

      >
      > I also notice that John (whom Mel Gibson evidently takes to be the beloved
      > disciple) was still present, not having departed with Mary at 19:27. This
      > allows John to be the unidentified witness of 19:35 (the traditional view),
      > although the most consistent "witnesses" throughout the film are mother Mary
      > and Mary Magdalene (not a particularly Johannine feature).
      >
      > Also, there is a view of Satan being defeated, catastrophe in the temple,

      Is it the Temple?

      >
      > earthquake, etc. when Jesus died, which seems at first to be filmed as though from
      > a great height looking down. Is this the Johannine "lifted up" coming into
      > play? Or is it just God looking down from heaven?

      It is a tear which falls from heaven. Good weeping.

      Jeffrey
      --

      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)

      1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
      Chicago, IL 60626

      jgibson000@...
    • Ramsey Michaels
      OK, Jeffrey, we can disagree on gut reactions, but more or less agree on interpretation. I really missed the tear from heaven (you saw it twice after all), and
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 1, 2004
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        OK, Jeffrey, we can disagree on gut reactions, but more or less agree on
        interpretation. I really missed the tear from heaven (you saw it twice after
        all), and there did seem to be something going on in the temple, not the
        rending of the inner veil (which would not be visible from the outside), but
        an actual destruction (at least extensive damage) of the temple, visible
        externally. This is mentioned in some extra biblical sources (Gospel of the
        Hebrews? I'd have to check it out).

        In my youth I wrote an article in CBQ (1967) tending to identify the soldier
        in Jn 19:34 with the centurion of Mk 15:38, on the basis of Jn 19:37 -- that
        is that, that the one who saw and testified (19:35) and the one who pierced
        (v 34) were the same.

        I'm not sure whether I still agree with myself or not :-). But that's why I
        was interested in the way the film handled it. As I recall, Acts of Pilate
        identified both soldiers as "Longinus," supporting my suggestion.

        I don't think this is the place to debate penal substitution.

        Ramsey


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000@...>
        To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:50 PM
        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] The Passion


        >
        >
        > Ramsey Michaels wrote:
        >
        > > I sent this before, but it didn't seem to make it to the list. Pardon me
        if it turns out to be a duplication.
        > >
        > > I would like to get anyone's take on the spear thrust in John in the
        Gibson film. Did the Roman soldier in
        > > fact bow down before the crucified Christ when the blood and water
        spattered
        > > on him? And do you think this was supposed to hint at the centurion in
        Mark?
        > >
        >
        > It's the silent but spear wielding soldier from John 19:34 who makes no
        confession as in Mark or proclaims Jesus
        > to be innocent as in Luke (but see the Acts of Pilate). Is he not named in
        the film as Longinus, as later
        > tradition named him?. And he is literally washed in the blood and
        baptized in the war
        >
        > >
        > > I also notice that John (whom Mel Gibson evidently takes to be the
        beloved
        > > disciple) was still present, not having departed with Mary at 19:27.
        This
        > > allows John to be the unidentified witness of 19:35 (the traditional
        view),
        > > although the most consistent "witnesses" throughout the film are mother
        Mary
        > > and Mary Magdalene (not a particularly Johannine feature).
        > >
        > > Also, there is a view of Satan being defeated, catastrophe in the
        temple,
        >
        > Is it the Temple?
        >
        > >
        > > earthquake, etc. when Jesus died, which seems at first to be filmed as
        though from
        > > a great height looking down. Is this the Johannine "lifted up" coming
        into
        > > play? Or is it just God looking down from heaven?
        >
        > It is a tear which falls from heaven. Good weeping.
        >
        > Jeffrey
        > --
        >
        > Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
        >
        > 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. #1
        > Chicago, IL 60626
        >
        > jgibson000@...
        >
        >
        >
        >
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