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Re: [John_Lit] Re: Christology - high and low : Jn 17:3

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  • frideslameris
    Hi Mike, ... From: Mike Grondin To: Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:40 PM Subject: [John_Lit]
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 17, 2004
      Hi Mike,

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Mike Grondin <mwgrondin@...>
      To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:40 PM
      Subject: [John_Lit] Re: Christology - high and low : Jn 17:3

      > --- "frideslameris" wrote:
      > > I remind you of an earlier statement of mine that (some) great
      > > mystics, saints, spiritual teachers, have (had) no problem to
      > > speak about their divine status during their lives.
      > Mike G.
      > Could you give some examples of what some of these others have said
      > that you find similar to what's in GJn?


      I give here one, quoted in Robinsons Priority of John p. 387 (note 132).

      Catherine of Genoa: : 'My "I' is God and I know no other "I" but this is my God'.

      And here is something more from POJ chapter VIII: The person of Christ.
      The context is a discussion about Jesus' ego eimi sayings; what is meant
      when Jesus says 'I'.


      It is the "I' of the mystics, who make the most astonishing claims to be one
      with God, without of course claiming to be God, the "I" of Meister Eckhart
      and Angel Silesius, of the Sufis and the Upanishads, where atman and
      brahman are completely 'one', as in John 10.30. Such is Bede Griffith inter-
      pretation, born of long exposure to this tradition. In his latest book
      (The marriage of East and West, London, 1982, 189) he says of Jesus:

      In the depth of his being, like every human being, he was present
      to himself, aware of himself, in relation to the eternal ground of his
      being. In most people this intuitive awareness is inchoate or imper-
      fect, but in the great prophet and mystic, in the seer like Gautama
      Buddha or the seers of the Upanishads, this intuitive knowledge
      of the ground of being becomes a pure intuition, a total awareness.
      Such according to the tradition of St. Johns gospel (which in its
      origin is now considered to be as old as that of the other gospels)
      was the nature of the knowledge of Jesus. He knew himself in the
      depth of his spirit as one with the eternal ground of his being.


      And so has been the awareness of many other mystics, in past and

      The ability to evaluate Jesus' or Christs own 'christology', may be, to
      some or great degree, be dependent on how much of this intuitive
      awareness of Oneness, the exegete would have available in his own
      interpretational mind frame.

      In the mean time, everyone would progress on his own level of understanding
      and that may be the reason why 'interpretational universes' do not always
      come together.

      And this very principle would probably explain a lot why many people had (or
      have!) such great difficulties to understand (the teachings of ) Christ, be they friends or

      Best wishes to all

      Frides Laméris
      Zuidalren (Home)

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