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Re: Greek names for days

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  • big_mart_2003
    -- ... attempt to ... during ... Nay, not so. Horrocks and others have the modern pronunciation substantially in place by the second century BC. It surprised
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 2, 2004
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      --
      > Actually, Mike, the second one fits, too. Dheftera is Martin's
      attempt to
      > transliterate the modern Greek pronunciation of "Deutera". The "d" is
      > pronounced as a hrad "th" (as in "that"), and the "u" is pronounced "f".
      > "Thank you" in Modern Greek is pronounced "efcharisto", and written
      > "eucharisto". I shall now offend all listmembers of Greek descent by
      > suggesting this is due to the pollution that came upon the language
      during
      > centuries of Turkish domination.

      Nay, not so. Horrocks and others have the modern pronunciation
      substantially in place by the second century BC. It surprised me when
      I first read it too.

      Mart.
    • big_mart_2003
      ... in Russian. ... substitution is ... have seen ... the ... is not ... There are vowel signs which go above or below the line, but are only written in
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 2, 2004
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        --- In johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com, Bob Schacht
        <bobschacht@i...> wrote:
        > At 08:44 PM 1/1/2004 +0000, John E Staton wrote:
        > >... Actually, the substitution of "u" with "f" or "v" is seen also
        in Russian.
        >
        > Happy New Year to everyone!
        >
        > In Hebrew, is there also a similar substitution? Or perhaps
        substitution is
        > not the right word. Isn't the WAW also transcribed VAV so that I
        have seen
        > Yahweh transliterated both as YHWH and YHVH-- and isn't this part of
        the
        > (mis)understanding involved in the KJV Jehovah? Actually, from my brief
        > training in Arabic, one of the things I seem to remember is that it
        is not
        > so much a matter of substitution as that the WAW is ambiguous, and that
        > English makes a phonemic distinction that is not made in
        > Hebrew/Aramaic/Arabic???
        >
        > If the above sentences are riddled with mistakes, I throw myself on the
        > mercy of the court and plead only that I am traveling (currently in
        > Michigan) and so my usual reference works are not available.
        >
        > Bob Schacht

        There are vowel signs which go above or below the line, but are only
        written in documents where correct pronunciation is especially
        important. Paradoxically, some Hebrew documents have the vowel signs
        for "Adonai" written with the YHWH tetragrammaton, to avoid writing
        the most holy name, hence the KJ error.

        Mart.
      • Jack Kilmon
        ... From: Bob Schacht To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [John_Lit]
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 5, 2004
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Bob Schacht" <bobschacht@...>
          To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 10:54 AM
          Subject: Re: [John_Lit] u/v substitution


          > At 08:44 PM 1/1/2004 +0000, John E Staton wrote:
          > >... Actually, the substitution of "u" with "f" or "v" is seen also in
          Russian.
          >
          > Happy New Year to everyone!
          >
          > In Hebrew, is there also a similar substitution? Or perhaps substitution
          is
          > not the right word. Isn't the WAW also transcribed VAV so that I have seen
          > Yahweh transliterated both as YHWH and YHVH-- and isn't this part of the
          > (mis)understanding involved in the KJV Jehovah? Actually, from my brief
          > training in Arabic, one of the things I seem to remember is that it is not
          > so much a matter of substitution as that the WAW is ambiguous, and that
          > English makes a phonemic distinction that is not made in
          > Hebrew/Aramaic/Arabic???
          >
          > If the above sentences are riddled with mistakes, I throw myself on the
          > mercy of the court and plead only that I am traveling (currently in
          > Michigan) and so my usual reference works are not available.

          WAW did not become VAV until medieval times, hence it was not used for a
          "vee" sound in ancient Hebrew. This is still preserved in Yemenite Hebrew.
          YHWH is JHVH is German (same pronounciation) and the word originated in the
          15th century in German monasteries taking the vowel sounds from "adonai" on
          the assumption that yod-heh=waw=heh are consonants and not vowels....I am
          not so sure.

          Jack
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