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[John_Lit] Re: History of the Farewell Discourse

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  • kymhsm
    Pete, Similarly, I wrote this ten hours ago. In your response to Mike you said concerning my post:
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 7, 2003
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      Similarly, I wrote this ten hours ago.

      In your response to Mike you said concerning my post:

      <<<Of course, this is still miles away from the apostles having a
      kind of symposium on the Gospel. I wonder whether we have any
      justification for that view from other ancient sources?>>>

      There are two very clear references to precisely such an event. The
      Muratorian Fragment/Canon (c. 190) says:
      "The fourth gospel is by John, one of the disciples. When his fellow-
      disciples and his bishops exhorted him he said, Today fast with me
      for three days, and then let us recount to each other whatever may be
      revealed to each of us. That same night it was revealed to Andrew,
      one of the apostles, that John should write down all things under his
      name, as they all called them to mind..."

      Secondly, Eusebius, quoting Clement of Alexandria, says,
      But John, last of all, perceiving that what had reference to the body
      in the gospel of our Saviour, was sufficiently detailed, and being
      encouraged by his familiar friends, and urged by the Spirit, he wrote
      a spiritual gospel. (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, VI.14.7. )

      I should add here that I think Luke in 1:1 is referring to
      this 'council' where the 'many' corporately 'undertook' (aorist - see
      Luke's other uses of epecheiresan in Acts 9:29 and 19:13 for its
      corporate sense) to compile a (single) narrative.

      <<<Was this a common practice? I don't think the later Councils and
      Synods even attempted to create texts in this way. >>>

      The later Councils and Synods already had the four gospels (the whole
      canon) and had no need - nor apostles or eyewitnesses – to create a
      new, authoritative text.

      <<<I'm still happy with looking at the work of the final redactor who
      shaped the Gospel as we have it today. His/her work has caused us
      enough headaches to be getting on with!>>>

      This is, no doubt, true. But if we can get to the origin of the text,
      why not? Most scholars have a scenario in mind or they have adopted
      someone else's. I have my scheme which, as yet, has provided a
      satisfactory answer for anything that I have been able to put against


      Kym Smith
      South Australia
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