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RE: [John_Lit] John Noble and the Johannine Community

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  • Matson, Mark (Academic)
    ... Stan: Thanks for bringing the Johannine letters into the mix. Here is where I think some of the problem stems. To speak of a Johannine community in the
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 27, 2003
      Stan Harstine wrote:

      > So in a general sense, the historical background of the
      > letters does include the idea of a "Johannine Community" that
      > shapes one's reading of the text.
      >
      > Currently, the question of the dominance of this community
      > for understanding the Johannine letters is coming under
      > serious review by some. Your observation of the similarity
      > between Brown's description and a particular view of church
      > hierarchy is well taken. I commend your willingness to
      > pursue further learning beyond your specialty area.

      Stan:

      Thanks for bringing the Johannine letters into the mix. Here is where I
      think some of the problem stems. To speak of a Johannine community in
      the letters is far easier than in the gospel. Here there is a clear
      issue being dealt with, a church community is explicitly addressed, etc.


      But is that readily transferable to the gospel? I am not that willing
      to grant that. It seems that the conflation of the situation of the
      letter and the situation of the gospel have been rather facilely (sp?)
      accomplished without sufficient argumentation. I know that Paul
      Anderson sees some of the same situations at work here, but again I
      think the rhetorical purpose and probably audience are suffiently
      distinctive to raise serious concerns. To say that some of the
      anti-docetic concerns of the letters is in the background of the gospel
      is reasonable. I think it takes more argumentation to suggest that this
      is then the intention of the gospel's presentation.

      mark


      Mark A. Matson
      Academic Dean
      Milligan College
      http://www.milligan.edu/administrative/personal.htm
    • Matson, Mark (Academic)
      ... Stan: Thanks for bringing the Johannine letters into the mix. Here is where I think some of the problem stems. To speak of a Johannine community in the
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 27, 2003
        Stan Harstine wrote:

        > So in a general sense, the historical background of the
        > letters does include the idea of a "Johannine Community" that
        > shapes one's reading of the text.
        >
        > Currently, the question of the dominance of this community
        > for understanding the Johannine letters is coming under
        > serious review by some. Your observation of the similarity
        > between Brown's description and a particular view of church
        > hierarchy is well taken. I commend your willingness to
        > pursue further learning beyond your specialty area.

        Stan:

        Thanks for bringing the Johannine letters into the mix. Here is where I
        think some of the problem stems. To speak of a Johannine community in
        the letters is far easier than in the gospel. Here there is a clear
        issue being dealt with, a church community is explicitly addressed, etc.


        But is that readily transferable to the gospel? I am not that willing
        to grant that. It seems that the conflation of the situation of the
        letter and the situation of the gospel have been rather facilely (sp?)
        accomplished without sufficient argumentation. I know that Paul
        Anderson sees some of the same situations at work here, but again I
        think the rhetorical purpose and probably audience are suffiently
        distinctive to raise serious concerns. To say that some of the
        anti-docetic concerns of the letters is in the background of the gospel
        is reasonable. I think it takes more argumentation to suggest that this
        is then the intention of the gospel's presentation.

        mark


        Mark A. Matson
        Academic Dean
        Milligan College
        http://www.milligan.edu/administrative/personal.htm
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