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Challenge to Lupia

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  • Mike Grondin
    Apologies to list-members for the tardiness of this response, but my attention has only recently been drawn to a posting to this list by John Lupia in early
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 4, 2003
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      Apologies to list-members for the tardiness of this response, but my
      attention has only recently been drawn to a posting to this list by
      John Lupia in early March. Although the subject of the Gospel of
      Thomas doesn't seem to be directly pertinent to the purpose of the
      list, Lupia was able to work it in somehow, and now I wonder whether
      it would be in order to respond to his shamelessly disingenuous
      hatchet job. I can never seem to quite catch up with him, but if
      he's hereabouts nowadays, and if the moderators deem it in order to
      respond to his remarks about the Gospel of Thomas, I'd like to do
      so. I am quite familiar with the text (and hence with Lupia's
      translational mistakes at a couple of points), and have some
      familiarity also with the motivation behind these scurrilous
      attempts to discredit GThom, which have been going on now for a
      number of years on a number of different forums.

      Mike Grondin
      The Coptic Gospel of Thomas, saying-by-saying
      http://www.geocities.com/mwgrondin/sayings.htm
    • Mike Grondin
      After my previous note was posted (I wasn t sure it would be), one member asked me offlist where the Lupia posting on GThom was. It s pretty hard to find, cuz
      Message 2 of 2 , Aug 4, 2003
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        After my previous note was posted (I wasn't sure it would be), one
        member asked me offlist where the Lupia posting on GThom was. It's
        pretty hard to find, cuz the title doesn't give a clue, but here's
        a direct link:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/johannine_literature/message/3254

        (It's a long message and it takes him awhile to get to Thomas,
        so be patient.)

        I see that I rather overstated the case of there being no "direct"
        linkage between GThom and GJohn. If one assumes (as I do) that
        John's "Doubting Thomas" story in chapter 20 was a swipe at a
        certain Christian sect associated with that name, and if one assumes
        that GThom represents some of the thinking of that same group, then
        there is that connection. (Apologies if this has been thrashed out
        here long ago.)

        Interestingly, one can apply a Lupia-type argument to GJohn, for
        one can argue that Jesus is therein depicted as a sort of babbling
        megalomaniac. One can even produce examples of his babbling and his
        megalomania. Furthermore, one can argue (as ancient anti-Christians
        used to) that there's evidence there of cannibalism. All one has to
        do is to pick the right passages, twist the interpretation, and
        ignore the rest. Does this show that GJohn was written by anti-
        Christians, or does it show that Lupia's methodology is flawed?

        But "methodology" may be too kind a word. I really think that John
        L. has no interest at all in impartially analyzing the contents of
        GThom. I think he really believes that there were no authentic
        Christian "voices" which denied resurrection-in-the-flesh and the
        supposed salvific meaning of J's death. Anything contrary to
        orthodoxy on these points, then, probably strikes him as anti-
        Christian - regardless of the tone of the rest of the work.

        Generally, one finds what one looks for, particularly if one is
        willing to manipulate the evidence to fit the hypothesis. If one
        goes looking for anything that can possibly be taken as sexual
        innuendo, for example, one will find it in Thomas. One will also
        find it in the canonical gospels. That ought to tell us something
        about the validity of this approach.

        Mike Grondin
        Mt. Clemens, MI
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