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Re: [John_Lit] John the Baptist in the prologue

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  • Pete Phillips
    I m sorry but I think I have missed a connecton somewhere. Could someone explain how Word becoming flesh can be the equivalent of Spirit descending upon and
    Message 1 of 6 , Feb 3, 2003
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      I'm sorry but I think I have missed a connecton somewhere. Could someone
      explain how Word becoming flesh can be the equivalent of Spirit descending
      upon and remaining on him? Are we suggesting that verse 14 is not about
      'Christmas' but rather the end of 'Lent'? Where does the incarnation
      happen? Isn't this just adoptionism then - the Word comes into Jesus at the
      point of indwelling of the Spirit?

      I need some help here, I think.

      Pete Phillips
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: <khs@...>
      To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 11:22 PM
      Subject: Re: [John_Lit] John the Baptist in the prologue


      > Dear James,
      >
      > <<<One thing that, for me, makes sense of the position of John
      > the Baptist in the prologue is that the Baptist is perhaps thought
      > of as spanning the ages, as bearing witness both before and
      > after the incarnation. This is possible if...the 'Word becoming
      > flesh' and 'Spirit descending and remaining on him' refer to the
      > same event.>>>
      >
      > I think this view creates more problems than it solves. Either you
      > do not have the Word becoming incarnate until Jesus' baptism
      > (close to a Gnostic position) or you have John claiming to have
      > witnessed something when he was about six months old (Lk
      > 1:36 - if you are going to allow the witness of another gospel).
      > Neither position seems tenable but I cannot see that what you
      > are suggesting allows any other alternative. I would need some
      > convincing that it is otherwise.
      >
      > Sincerely,
      >
      > Kym Smith
      > Adelaide
      > South Australia
      > khs@...
      >
      >
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    • Big_Mart_98 <big_mart_98@yahoo.com>
      ... someone ... descending ... about ... incarnation ... Jesus at the ... People in the period in question were not too bothered about logical inconsistencies.
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 4, 2003
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        --- In johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com, "Pete Phillips"
        <p.m.phillips@c...> wrote:
        > I'm sorry but I think I have missed a connecton somewhere. Could
        someone
        > explain how Word becoming flesh can be the equivalent of Spirit
        descending
        > upon and remaining on him? Are we suggesting that verse 14 is not
        about
        > 'Christmas' but rather the end of 'Lent'? Where does the
        incarnation
        > happen? Isn't this just adoptionism then - the Word comes into
        Jesus at the
        > point of indwelling of the Spirit?
        >
        > I need some help here, I think.
        >
        People in the period in question were not too bothered about logical
        inconsistencies. Where the NT writers were concerned, they did not
        expect anyone to be here in 2,000 years, and they had no way of
        anticipating the rigorous thinking of at least some of them.
        Martin Edwards.
      • Paul Schmehl
        ... From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:45 AM Subject: Re: [John_Lit] John the Baptist
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 4, 2003
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: <big_mart_98@...>
          To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:45 AM
          Subject: Re: [John_Lit] John the Baptist in the prologue
          > >
          > People in the period in question were not too bothered about logical
          > inconsistencies. Where the NT writers were concerned, they did not
          > expect anyone to be here in 2,000 years, and they had no way of
          > anticipating the rigorous thinking of at least some of them.
          >
          Do you have any evidence to support this view? I mean real evidence?
          Documents? Letters? Texts?

          IMHO people haven't changed one iota from "the beginning" until now. As
          Ecclesiastes says, "There is nothing new under the sun. All is vanity."

          Paul Schmehl
          pschmehl@...
          http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/
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