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Re: [John_Lit] Jesus' mother Mary and Golgotha

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  • fmmccoy
    ... From: Kevin O Brien To: Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:32 PM Subject:
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 9, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Kevin O'Brien" <symeon@...>
      To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 10:32 PM
      Subject: [John_Lit] Jesus' mother Mary and Golgotha

      (snip)

      > The movements of the woman Jesus addressed from the cross (v. 26):
      >
      > Was she not taken at that very moment from Golgotha to a house inside the
      city? And who took her'? The last question is answered by noting that the
      Beloved Disciple witnessed for posterity the outstanding phenomenon of the
      blood and watery substance issuing from Jesus' side (John 19.35-37).
      Therefore, he could not be the one who escorted the woman concerned to his
      putative city home 'from that hour' or an alternative and better
      translation, 'from then on' in John 19.26-27! Only Salome and some other
      women (cf. Mark 15.41, 47) did that. And that is why Salome was absent from
      Golgotha in Mark 15.47 after being present there seven verses previously in
      Mark 15.40 while the Magdalen was present when Jesus was entombed (Matt
      27.61; Mark 15.47; Luke 23.55). Obviously, it was the Magdalene not Salome
      who knew where the tomb lay and it was Salome not the Magdalen who carried
      out Jesus' command from the cross!


      Dear Kevin O'Brien:

      Good to hear from you!

      What makes you think that the witness in 19:35-37 is the Beloved Disciple?

      What I suggest is thzt the Beloved Disciple was Mary's (step) son, James,
      and that he took her to his house right away. If so, then the witness in
      19:35-37 is someone else. This explains why this witness is not said to be
      the Beloved Disciple.


      Regards,

      Frank McCoy
      1809 N. English Apt. 17
      Maplewood, MN USA 55109
    • Thomas W Butler
      Jeffery, You have a point. I submit that whether one agrees with my use of the passage from the Gospel of Thomas to explain male pronouns in reference to
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 13, 2003
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        Jeffery,
        You have a point. I submit that whether one agrees with my use
        of the passage from the Gospel of Thomas to explain male pronouns
        in reference to female characters or not, the interpretation of John
        19: 27 to mean that Jesus is referring to himself as "son" stands.

        Yours in Christ's service,
        Tom Butler

        On Thu, 9 Jan 2003 12:48:16 -0800 (PST) Horace Jeffery Hodges
        <jefferyhodges@...> writes:
        > Tom,
        >
        > You say that your . . .
        >
        > "interpretation . . . requires that the words of Jesus
        > in 19: 27 are addressed to his mother and acknowledge
        > to her that he (Jesus) is her son, not, as it is
        > usually interpreted, that Jesus is indicating that the
        > BD is Mary's son."
        >
        > Actually, calling Mary of Bethany the 'son' of Mary
        > the mother of Jesus should be no problem given your
        > hermeneutic point about . . .
        >
        > "the Gospel of Thomas (114) where "women are said by
        > Simon Peter to be unworthy of life; Jesus responds
        > that they can become 'male.'"
        >
        > If you interpret the masculine pronouns that refer to
        > the Beloved Disciple as indicating a masculinized Mary
        > of Bethany, then the same could hold for the noun
        > "son" as a masculine substitution for "daughter."
        >
        > Not that I agree with you.
        >
        > Jeffery Hodges
        >
        > =====
        > Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
        > Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
        > 447-791 Kyunggido Osan-City
        > Yangsandong 411
        > South Korea
        >
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