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Re: [John_Lit] Johannine priority

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  • Billy Evans
    ... Bob, I hope this helps: I ll try to explain it this way: The text says that God is going to remove the whole stay of bread and all the supply of water.
    Message 1 of 34 , Sep 16, 2002
      on 9/16/02 9:42 PM, Bob MacDonald at bobmacdonald@... wrote:

      > Proverbs was clear but I couldn't follow the reference to Is 3:1 - could you
      > explain it further?
      Bob, I hope this helps:
      I'll try to explain it this way: The text says that God is going to remove
      the whole stay of bread and all the supply of water. The following verses
      address only the types of people that the town needs. God seems to be
      providing a complete list of those needful occupations that He will remove.
      These look like the appellativs of spiritual feeders. When that happens and
      youth has to fill in as teachers, man will turn against man etc. Thus, the
      removal of bread and water seem to suggest that what is removed is in fact
      the lifegiving teaching that is essential for peace. Anyway that is my take
      on Isa 3:1f

      however, what is amazing is how the Talmudists speak of eating the Messiah
      "Israel shall eat the years of Messiah." Next then they question this
      several ways and Hillel ends up saying "the Messiah is not likely to come to
      Israel, for they have already eaten him up in the Hezekiah era."

      Have you a reference for this? check Tal. 99.1f
    • Paul Anderson
      Thanks, Jeffery, for the review. The fact that John s differences from the Synoptics were noticed suggests that John s integrity was at least to some degree
      Message 34 of 34 , Sep 18, 2003
        Thanks, Jeffery, for the review.

        The fact that John's differences from the Synoptics were noticed suggests that John's integrity was at least to some degree respected. That sounds like good news to me.

        I imagine many of the classic issues will present themselves in considering the film:

        -- John's comparisons/contrasts to the Synoptics
        -- the relation of Jesus' signs to the I-Am sayings
        -- transitions between 1:18-1:19ff.; 3:22-30 and 3:31-36; chs. 4, 5, 6, and 7; 14:31 and 18:1 (thus the place of chs. 15-17); 11:2 and 12:1-8; 13:36 and 16:5; chs. 20 and 21; etc.
        -- the place of 7:53-8:11 within the surrounding narrative
        -- Jesus' travelling to and from Jerusalem
        -- presentations of the Ioudaioi
        -- portrayals of such theological tensions as John's high/low Christology, the Son's equal/subordinate relation to the Father, present/futuristic eschatology, formal/informal sacramentology, free will/predeterminism, the fore-knowledge/pathos of Jesus, etc.
        -- juxtapositions of Peter and the Beloved Disciple
        -- relations of archaeological details to theological concerns
        -- the "nearness" of the three Passovers
        -- the relation of the early Temple cleansing to the rest of the story's development
        -- dualism and receptions of Jesus
        -- particular Johannine details and presentations
        -- etc.

        The review reminds me of what John Barclay said several years ago; the sorts of questions raised by a non-technical reading of a biblical text seem to be the very issues that the most rigorous of scholars tend to work on--and debate. I guess John is no exception.

        Paul Anderson

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Horace Jeffery Hodges [mailto:jefferyhodges@...]
        Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 2:42 PM
        To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Filming of John's Gospel

        Thanks to all those with information about the Gospel
        of John on film. I have looked at an online review:


        The reviewer, Holly McClure, praises the movie but
        also notes what she considers "bad":

        <Because this is a literal translation of the Gospel
        of John, there are a few scenarios and characters
        missing that are familiar to many people who have read
        the other Gospels.Ê For instance, there is no
        explanation of what happens to John the Baptist after
        he recognizes Christ as the true Savior. After Judas
        betrays Christ, we don't see him hang himself. Jesus
        isn't shown praying in the garden and asking that the
        cup be passed from him. There's no explanation of who
        Mary Magdalene is and why she's constantly hanging
        around the disciples and Christ. During his trial,
        Jesus is never taken to Herod, no man steps from the
        crowd to help Jesus carry his cross and the thief on
        the cross who's repentant isn't told he will be in
        paradise that day with Jesus. AndÊÐ-Êperhaps most
        important for a person who might not know the story of
        Jesus nor be familiar with the ScripturesÊÐ-Êthere's
        no explanation of his appearance before many in that
        area or his ascension into heaven, so the audience
        doesn't see or know what happens to Jesus after he
        appears to his disciples and lets them see the holes
        in his hands. I'm aware that some of these scenarios
        are minor points to the story and in no way take
        anything away from the Gospel of John as it is
        literally translated. But I feel it's important to
        recognize that there may be a few people who see this
        movie who don't know the story of Jesus, who aren't
        familiar with the Scriptures and therefore have no
        idea of what happened in the other Gospels. So you may
        want to fill in the blanks with answers to some of
        those questions if you happen to attend the movie with
        an unbeliever.>

        It's interesting that a pious Christian would fault
        the movie for being too 'Johannine' (my term).

        Jeffery Hodges

        Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges (Inv.) [Ph.D., U.C. Berkeley]
        Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
        447-791 Kyunggido, Osan-City
        Yangsandong 411
        South Korea

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