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Re: [John_Lit] architriklinos once more

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  • John Lupia
    Dear Jeffrey: Most of what you cited is post NT era authors and literature. The meager list you provided is largely not applicable to the NT philological
    Message 1 of 39 , Jul 4 2:40 PM
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      Dear Jeffrey:

      Most of what you cited is post NT era authors and
      literature. The meager list you provided is largely
      not applicable to the NT philological sense of the
      term and only 3 or 4 have some text worth looking
      into. It is a very unsound method to search post NT
      era uses of a term to grasp NT senses for it.

      Further, "No", I am not thinking that all the
      citations per entry are complete. That idea is
      ridiculous.

      I suggest you mail this post to every English Language
      Translation Committee member of the NT in every
      edition since they apparently need your profound
      insight on why their translations can be found to be
      at fault since OIKODESPOTHS is *always* rendered as
      the owner and *never* as the steward. The compound
      word OIKODESPOTHS has its gender counterpart in
      OIKODESPOINA "mistress of the house" meaning the
      female head of the house, not a stewardess. The use
      of the word OIKODESPOTEW "oikodespotein" is also found
      in 1 Tim 5:14 also meaning the managment of the home
      by the paterfamilias head, not a hirling or slave.

      To simplify things post your proposal to the Papy-L
      discussion group and hear what philologists think
      about your proposal for "steward" rather than "owner"
      in the 13 NT passages that apply.

      BTW Zenodotus is not spelled Zenodorus.




      =====
      John N. Lupia
      501 North Avenue B-1
      Elizabeth, New Jersey 07208-1731 USA

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    • heronblu
      ... Michael, I am more of a student than a scholar of the fourth gospel. Nevertheless, even (maybe, especially) students have opinions, too. It would indeed
      Message 39 of 39 , Jul 9 11:19 PM
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        --- In johannine_literature@y..., michael Hardin <michael1517@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > For some time now I have been studying the usage of
        > words with 'double meanings' in 4G. I am curious to
        > know if others have also found the 'author's' use of
        > words that have a double meaning to be of value . . . .

        Michael, I am more of a student than a scholar of the fourth
        gospel. Nevertheless, even (maybe, especially) students have
        opinions, too. It would indeed be an interesting and controversial
        study to tabulate and classify the most obvious ones. The most
        frequent reason I can see for the double (and sometimes more)
        meanings is in support of the Johannine technique I call "dialogues
        with dummies." The poor sap who is shown as questioning Jesus almost
        always misunderstands what Jesus is telling him and, regarding words
        with more than one possible meaning, only gets the infelicitous one
        and is blind to what Jesus is actually saying. Jesus is then given
        the opportunity to explain further for the benefit of the intended
        audience. (The dummy is almost never shown as ever getting the
        point.) I think this goes so far as to include instances in which
        both meanings have to be in the listener/reader's mind in order to
        have any hope of following Jesus. Perhaps the most obvious example
        is John 3:3. Nicodemus interprets *gennhth anwthen* as meaning
        only "born again." The usually excellent NAB makes the opposite
        error, interpreting the words as meaning only "born from above." A
        proper understanding, in my opinion, requires that Jesus be
        understood as meaning both things. One must be reborn in the Spirit
        in order to see the kingdom of God.

        To say the same thing with different words, I think that the author
        wants his or her audience to think and not to merely swallow dogma.
        He is as much as saying that just as Jesus is more than appears on
        the surface, Jesus' message is more profound than surface appearances
        might lead one to believe.
        Yours in Christ,
        Lou
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