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[John_Lit] Beloved Disciple/Malina

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  • James McGrath
    Tom, I was thinking in particular of John 11:3, where the verb is admittedly different, but the phrase is still strikingly similar to that used of the
    Message 1 of 2 , Nov 5, 2001
      Tom, I was thinking in particular of John 11:3, where the verb is admittedly
      different, but the phrase is still strikingly similar to that used of 'the
      disciple whom Jesus loved' (in both cases a masculine relative pronoun is
      used, although in the first instance this is due to the referrent being
      Lazarus, whereas the others refer to 'disciple' which is a masculine noun,
      so this doesn't prove anything about the disciple's gender). I suppose it
      depends whether one feels that the verbs philew and agapaw are synonymous -
      an issue that is either resolved or complicated further by John 21!

      Regards,

      James

      P.S. Ross, the evidence I understand you to be looking for is found in the
      paragraph that spans pp.22-23 of the original 1981 edition of Malina's book,
      The New Testament World. I'm afraid I don't have the revised edition to give
      you the page numbers for it.

      James




      ___________________________________
      Dr. James F. McGrath
      Adjunct Professor of New Testament
      Alliance Theological Seminary
      93 Worth Street
      New York, NY 10013

      Adjunct Professor of New Testament
      Biblical Theological Seminary
      200 N. Main St.
      Hatfield, PA 19440

      ___________________________________
    • Thomas W Butler
      Dear James, When I first joined this list I proposed a systematic approach to the consideration of the identity of the BD. Unfortunately I did that when the
      Message 2 of 2 , Nov 7, 2001
        Dear James,

        When I first joined this list I proposed a systematic approach
        to the consideration of the identity of the BD. Unfortunately I
        did that when the list members were already scheduled to begin
        a discussion of papers that had been read at the last SBL
        meeting on the section dealing with the Gospel of John. I
        suppose one of the difficulties of this medium for the exchange
        of ideas is that so many different topics are of interest to the
        whole group that it is difficult to focus on one at a time. For
        an exegesis of the gospel that is complex, which, admitedly
        mine is, a systematic, step by step presentation and discussion
        of the material is necessary.

        I am sorely tempted to open an entirely different line of
        discussion with you regarding the question: Who is Lazarus?
        since you have pointed to Jn. 11: 3 in support of the traditional
        view that the BD is a male. However, if we open that avenue
        of discussion, I suspect that we will be drawn away from the
        question that interests me most: Could A Woman Named Mary
        Be the Beloved Disciple?

        Would you be willing to delay discussion of the identity of
        Lazarus until after we have considered the candidacy of a
        woman named Mary?

        I am aware that there are numerous other theories extant on
        the identity of the BD, including one that advocates Lazarus.
        From the perspective I have developed, the question of whether
        Lazarus could be the BD logically follows the larger question of
        Who is Lazarus?

        With regard to the issue currently before us, it would seem
        that 11: 5 uses 11: 3 as an antecedent, while including Martha
        and Mary in addition to Lazarus as persons whom Jesus loves.
        Therefore I submit that 11: 3 does not exclude Martha or Mary
        as candidates for BD. The omission of their names from 11: 3
        is corrected by the inclusion of their names in 11: 5.

        As regards the use of philew and agapaw as you noted, the
        problem created by the use of these different terms is resolved
        by the theory (in fact is one of the bases for the theory) that
        Jn. 21 is written by a different author or final editor. It appears
        to me that part of that editor's intention is to hide the true identity
        of the BD. I suspect, in fact, that the use of the term BD is an
        invention of this editor, not of the original source of the material.

        Yours in Christ's service,
        Tom Butler

        On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 00:56:57 -0500 "James McGrath"
        <jamesfrankmcgrath@...> writes:
        > Tom, I was thinking in particular of John 11:3, where the verb is
        > admittedly
        > different, but the phrase is still strikingly similar to that used
        > of 'the
        > disciple whom Jesus loved' (in both cases a masculine relative
        > pronoun is
        > used, although in the first instance this is due to the referrent
        > being
        > Lazarus, whereas the others refer to 'disciple' which is a masculine
        > noun,
        > so this doesn't prove anything about the disciple's gender). I
        > suppose it
        > depends whether one feels that the verbs philew and agapaw are
        > synonymous -
        > an issue that is either resolved or complicated further by John 21!
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > James
        >
        > P.S. Ross, the evidence I understand you to be looking for is found
        > in the
        > paragraph that spans pp.22-23 of the original 1981 edition of
        > Malina's book,
        > The New Testament World. I'm afraid I don't have the revised edition
        > to give
        > you the page numbers for it.
        >
        > James
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ___________________________________
        > Dr. James F. McGrath
        > Adjunct Professor of New Testament
        > Alliance Theological Seminary
        > 93 Worth Street
        > New York, NY 10013
        >
        > Adjunct Professor of New Testament
        > Biblical Theological Seminary
        > 200 N. Main St.
        > Hatfield, PA 19440
        >
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