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[John_Lit] Re: Jn 19.30

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  • Mark Goodacre
    On 25 May 99 at 21:11, N & RJ Hanscamp wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus breathing his last ? Does anyone
    Message 1 of 7 , May 25 7:22 AM
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      On 25 May 99 at 21:11, N & RJ Hanscamp wrote:

      > Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus
      > "breathing his last"? Does anyone know where else this phrase may be used?
      > (e.g. in wider / classical greek usage)
      >
      > Jn 19.30 KAI KLINAS THN KEQALHV PAREDWKEN TO PNEUMA
      >
      > It is an odd phrase which is not used in the other gospels.

      There is a little on this in the book by Helen Orchard mentioned in my previous
      Email (pp. 221-3). She cites Sanders and Lindars as giving the opinion that
      this indicates the voluntary nature of his death and she criticises the view:

      "Neither the bowing of the head nor the handing over of the spirit can be
      interpreted quite so simplistically" (p. 221).

      She criticises the way Bauer and Haenchen take KLINAS ("bowing" the head) and
      comments on the use of PAREDWKEN as follows:

      "That this overwhelmingly negative term is used to describe Jesus' last action
      cannot fail to influence our interpretation of the verse. Hanson sees a
      possible echor of Isa. 53.12c . . . If there was an allusion to this text it
      would certainly imply a negative meaning -- surrendering his spirit to death
      rather than the Father, as in Luke." (p. 223).

      The latter reference is, of course, to Luke 23.46 and Orchard attempts to show
      how other commentators have been unduly influenced by this Lukan parallel in
      their interpretation of the verse in John (p. 222).

      Orchard continues:

      "The concept of Jesus *betraying* his spirit is a very difficult one, and a
      betrayal could be seen to imply that Jesus had failed either in his work or in
      death. It begins to make some sense, however, if it is interpreted with
      reference to his victimal role. This betrayal is his final collusion with
      darkness . . ." (p. 223).

      Hope this is of interest.

      Mark Goodacre
      --------------------------------------
      Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
      Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
      University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
      Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

      http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
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    • Neil Booth
      Hello Nigel,As I understand it, bowing the head was an act which, in the circumstances of crucifixion, ensured that Jesus breathed his last, ie, it
      Message 2 of 7 , May 25 7:46 AM
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        Hello Nigel,
         
        As I understand it, "bowing the head" was an act which, in the circumstances of crucifixion, ensured that Jesus "breathed his last," ie, it prevented him from breathing and so induced death. I like to link this with John 10:17-18: "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No-one takes it from me but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
         
        Jesus wasn't killed. He chose to die and chose the moment of his death. Bauer says that here PARADIDWMI means "gave up his spirit *voluntarily*".
         
        Neil
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        There is nothing we can do to make God love us more
        There is nothing we can do to make God love us less
        --------------------<((>< Philip Yancey
        ><))>--------------------
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Tuesday, 25 May 1999 10:11
        Subject: [John_Lit] [John_lit] Jn 19.30

        Its great to be back.
         
        Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus "breathing his last"?  Does anyone know where else this phrase may be used? (e.g. in wider / classical greek usage)
         
        Jn 19.30 KAI KLINAS THN KEQALHV PAREDWKEN TO PNEUMA
         
        It is an odd phrase which is not used in the other gospels
         
        thanks
         
        Nigel Hanscamp
        Trinity Methodist Theological College
        Auckland Consortium of Theological Education, New Zealand
        Email: nar.hanscamp@...

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      • TonyProst@aol.com
        I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its source?Regards, Tony PRost All Nonnos All Day
        Message 3 of 7 , May 25 8:28 AM
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          I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its
          source?

          Regards,
          Tony PRost
          All Nonnos All Day
          http://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html

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        • TonyProst@aol.com
          To emphasize this, the paraphrase of this verse, by Nonnos of Panopolis in Alexandria (?), c. 450 (?) reads:Paraphrase 9.160kai kephale^n ekline,
          Message 4 of 7 , May 25 8:34 AM
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            To emphasize this, the paraphrase of this verse, by Nonnos of Panopolis in
            Alexandria (?), c. 450 (?) reads:

            Paraphrase 9.160

            kai kephale^n ekline, thele^moni d' eichathe potmo^i

            Regards,
            Tony Prost
            All Nonnos All Day
            http://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html

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          • Neil Booth
            On Tuesday, 25 May 1999, Tony Prost wrote ...I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its source?Hello Tony!Yes - gave up
            Message 5 of 7 , May 25 11:00 AM
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              On Tuesday, 25 May 1999, Tony Prost wrote ...

              > I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its
              > source?

              Hello Tony!

              Yes - "gave up the ghost" is in fact the KJV (AV) translation of the last
              few words of John 19.30.

              Neil
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              There is nothing we can do to make God love us more
              There is nothing we can do to make God love us less
              --------------------<((>< Philip Yancey ><))>--------------------



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