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RE: [John_Lit] Digest Number 323

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  • Michael Willett Newheart
    This morning, following my class last evening on the Gospel of John, I read the two messages on the destruction of bodies and buildings in John. I thought of
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 14, 2001
      This morning, following my class last evening on the Gospel of John, I read
      the two messages on the destruction of bodies and buildings in John. I
      thought of last night's class, which I began with a writing exercise. I
      told them to write continuously (without lifting their pens) for 3 minutes
      about the events of the last 3 days. Then I said to answer the question in
      writing (again for 3 min.), What connections do you see between those
      events and the Gospel of John? I then divided them up into groups of 4, and
      after a period of discussion I had them give group reports in answer to the
      2nd question. I was interested that two groups connected the temple and the
      World Trade Center and Pentagon. So your messages, Jeff(e)r(e)ys, were
      quite timely.

      I find the questions that Jeff S. raises quite provocative. Right now they
      provoke thought and feeling and furrowed brow but not many insights that I
      feel like sharing. I wonder if Mary Coloe's new book God Dwells with Us:
      Temple Symbolism in the Fourth Gospel (a textbook for my John class) might
      be helpful here. I'll have to look at it with these questions in mind.

      I'm also interested in the broader question, How is Johannine rhetoric
      being used in responding to these tragedies? How is it being used to build
      up the human person & the human community? And how is it being used to tear
      down? And what do we do as teachers and writers and preachers of this
      Gospel to build up (& tear down) persons & communities?

      Peace,
      Michael

      Michael Willett Newheart
      Associate Professor of New Testament Language and Literature
      Howard University School of Divinity
    • Staley, Jeffrey
      I wonder if Mary Coloe s new book God Dwells with Us: Temple Symbolism in the Fourth Gospel (a textbook for my John class) might be helpful here. I ll have to
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 14, 2001
        I wonder if Mary Coloe's new book God Dwells with Us:
        Temple Symbolism in the Fourth Gospel (a textbook for my John class)
        might be helpful here. I'll have to look at it with these questions in mind.

        Yes. I haven't read this book yet, but I was thinking along the same lines
        that her book might have something to offer here. I hope someone can offer
        some reflection on this . . .

        I'm also interested in the broader question, How is Johannine rhetoric
        being used in responding to these tragedies? How is it being used to
        build up the human person & the human community? And how is it being used to
        tear down? And what do we do as teachers and writers and preachers of this
        Gospel to build up (& tear down) persons & communities?

        Well, Billy Graham didn't quote FG today--as far as I remember--don't know
        if anyone else did. And I think it will be quite sad if we johannine
        scholars are unable to talk about the use of FG in times like these. . .

        Jeff Staley
      • Horace Jeffery Hodges
        ... People may have some hesitation to discuss such things on an academic listserve when we are still so close to the tragedy. I belong to another listserve,
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 15, 2001
          Jeffery Staley wrote:

          > I think it will be quite sad if we johannine
          > scholars are unable to talk about the use of FG in
          > times like these. . .

          People may have some hesitation to discuss such things
          on an academic listserve when we are still so close to
          the tragedy.

          I belong to another listserve, the Society of
          Christian Philosophers listserve, where we have been
          begun to break our silence and discuss what has
          happened, but mostly, our discussion has been about
          our sadness at the terrible loss of life and our
          concern about the near future.

          Briefly put, we're not being very academic in our
          discussions.

          This Johannine listserve is specifically and
          explicitly for the scholarly discussion of the
          Johannine writings, so people might also feel
          reluctance to break the rules and speak personally --
          thus, a lot of silence...

          However, I feel a bit uncomfortable getting into this
          discussion without saying a few things first.

          I want to express my deepest feelings of sorrow to any
          on this list who may have had friends or relatives
          directly affected by the terrorist attacks.

          I don't know if I know anybody directly affected
          because I've lived out of the States for twelve years
          now (and was in and out for three years prior to
          that), and I no longer know where a lot of my old
          friends live.

          I would not be surprised to discover that I do know
          somebody directly affected. I hope not.

          Perhaps I can make this post semi-Johannine (though
          not particularly scholarly) by closing with the hope
          that the fourth evangelist was right in affirming that
          the darkness does not overcome the light -- and I
          refer not only to any actual darkness without that we
          may fear but also to the possible darkness within each
          of us.

          I hope that it hasn't been inappropriate for me to say
          these things.

          Jeffery Hodges

          =====
          Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
          Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
          447-791 Kyunggido Osan-City
          Yangsandong 411
          South Korea

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        • Felix Just, S.J.
          ... Thanks for this reflection on the light/darkness theme, Jeffery! And thanks to Michael for sharing how you incorporated this week s tragedies into your
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 15, 2001
            Horace Jeffery Hodges [mailto:jefferyhodges@...] wrote:

            > Perhaps I can make this post semi-Johannine (though
            > not particularly scholarly) by closing with the hope
            > that the fourth evangelist was right in affirming that
            > the darkness does not overcome the light -- and I
            > refer not only to any actual darkness without that we
            > may fear but also to the possible darkness within each
            > of us.

            Thanks for this reflection on the light/darkness theme, Jeffery! And thanks
            to Michael for sharing how you incorporated this week's tragedies into your
            class on John!

            My own thoughts in the past few days have focused not so much on the
            Temple-destruction themes, which Jeff S. asked about, but more on John
            16:2b - "Indeed, an hour is coming when those who kill you will think that
            by doing so they are offering worship to God." I mean this not as a
            criticism of Islam (if that indeed is a factor behind the tragedies), since
            it should be obvious that ALL religious traditions (incl. our own) have had
            their misguided fanatics, in the past and present alike.

            I've also reflected on passages of John's Gospel that could help us overcome
            our all-too-human desires for revenge, which we are already hearing from
            many people, lest our own hunger for justice inflict even more injustice
            upon other innocents. Could the "other sheep" of John 10:16 possibly
            include Muslims, Jews and believers of other religious traditions, not just
            other Christians? Maybe that's stretching the original text too far, and
            yet the Johannine Jesus desires the salvation of "the world" (John 3:17),
            rather than its condemnation (even when "world" refers to one's enemies in
            John).

            Most of all, I'm comforted by the assurances of Jesus' presence, love,
            indwelling, and eternal life found throughout John. I hope others can find
            comfort and strength in the same texts and themes, especially those who have
            died or are injured, and their family and friends. May the Spirit and Peace
            of Jesus truly abide with us (John 20:19-22) in the days and weeks to come.

            Felix
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Felix Just, S.J. - Dept. of Theological Studies
            Loyola Marymount University - 7900 Loyola Blvd.
            Los Angeles, CA 90045-8400 - Ph (310) 338-5933
            Homepage: http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~fjust
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          • Paul Anderson
            ... Thanks, Jeff, I really think the Gospel of John has some great themes that need sounding these days: a peace not of this world connected to a kingdom
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 16, 2001
              johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com writes:
              >And I think it will be quite sad if we johannine
              >scholars are unable to talk about the use of FG in times like these. . .

              Thanks, Jeff, I really think the Gospel of John has some great themes that
              need sounding these days: a peace "not of this world" connected to a
              kingdom that is "not of this world" -- being one of Truth; neither in
              Jerusalem nor "on this mountain" -- transcendent of place and form -- but
              in Spirit and in Truth is authentic worship conducted; and the
              reconstruction of the Temple can only be effected by saving work of God
              rather than anything of human origin or initiative.

              These themes challenge myths of redemptive violence within and beyond
              one's circles of influence, and while John's narrow inclusivity is prone
              to tribal and provincial uses, John's broader inclusivity deserves to
              provide an important counterbalance.

              In such a deeply troubling time as this, easy answers fall way short of
              what is needed.

              Paul Anderson
            • Horace Jeffery Hodges
              ... It appears that we aren t quite emotionally ready. We may find our voices again in time. I suggest that we organize sessions -- not only Johannine -- on
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 29, 2001
                Jeff Staley wrote:

                > I think it will be quite sad if we johannine
                > scholars are unable to talk about the use of FG in
                > times like these. . .

                It appears that we aren't quite emotionally ready. We
                may find our voices again in time.

                I suggest that we organize sessions -- not only
                Johannine -- on the general issue of "use and abuse of
                religion" at the 2002 AAR/SBL.

                Jeffery Hodges

                =====
                Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
                Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
                447-791 Kyunggido Osan-City
                Yangsandong 411
                South Korea

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              • Bob MacDonald
                What usage of the FG was made in prior times of disturbance? E.g. the request from the BBC to Dorothy Sayers to write The Man Born to be King. Or perhaps the
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 29, 2001
                  What usage of the FG was made in prior times of disturbance?

                  E.g. the request from the BBC to Dorothy Sayers to write The Man Born to be
                  King.

                  Or perhaps the creation of the canons themselves - or so Akenson claims -
                  that each was created after a destruction of a temple.

                  Would those who would rule demand that the stone move to their will? or
                  "serve but the stone, the stone serves all."

                  The work no master may subject
                  save he to whom the whole is known
                  Being himself the Architect
                  The Craftsman and the Corner-Stone.

                  Then when the greatest and the least
                  Have finished all their labouring
                  And sit together at the feast
                  You shall behold a wonder thing:

                  The Maker of the men that make
                  will stoop between the cherubim
                  The towel and the basin take
                  And serve the servants who serve him.

                  (from The Makers - dedicatory to The Man Born to be King)

                  If a temple is destroyed, can we find meaning again?

                  Bob


                  mailto::BobMacDonald@...
                  + + + Victoria, B.C., Canada + + +

                  Catch the foxes for us,
                  the little foxes that make havoc of the vineyards,
                  for our vineyards are in flower. (Song 2.15)
                  http://members.home.net/bobmacdonald/homepage.htm

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Horace Jeffery Hodges [mailto:jefferyhodges@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2001 5:47 PM
                  To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [John_Lit] Digest Number 323


                  Jeff Staley wrote:

                  > I think it will be quite sad if we johannine
                  > scholars are unable to talk about the use of FG in
                  > times like these. . .

                  It appears that we aren't quite emotionally ready. We
                  may find our voices again in time.

                  I suggest that we organize sessions -- not only
                  Johannine -- on the general issue of "use and abuse of
                  religion" at the 2002 AAR/SBL.

                  Jeffery Hodges

                  =====
                  Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
                  Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
                  447-791 Kyunggido Osan-City
                  Yangsandong 411
                  South Korea

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