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[John_Lit] [John_lit] Jn 19.30

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  • N & RJ Hanscamp
    Its great to be back.Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus breathing his last ? Does anyone know where else this phrase
    Message 1 of 7 , May 25 2:11 AM
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      Its great to be back.
       
      Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus "breathing his last"?  Does anyone know where else this phrase may be used? (e.g. in wider / classical greek usage)
       
      Jn 19.30 KAI KLINAS THN KEQALHV PAREDWKEN TO PNEUMA
       
      It is an odd phrase which is not used in the other gospels
       
      thanks
       
      Nigel Hanscamp
      Trinity Methodist Theological College
      Auckland Consortium of Theological Education, New Zealand
      Email: nar.hanscamp@...

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    • ejdanna@trapdoor.aracnet.net
      On Tue, 25 May 1999, N & RJ Hanscamp wrote:Its great to be back. Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus breathing
      Message 2 of 7 , May 25 5:56 AM
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        On Tue, 25 May 1999, N & RJ Hanscamp wrote:

        > Its great to be back.
        >
        > Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus "breathing his last"? Does anyone know where else this phrase may be used? (e.g. in wider / classical greek usage)
        >
        > Jn 19.30 KAI KLINAS THN KEQALHV PAREDWKEN TO PNEUMA
        >
        > It is an odd phrase which is not used in the other gospels

        There are some scholars (e.g. R.Alan Culpepper) who think that this
        represents Jesus' giving the Holy Spirit to his disciples as he promised
        (e.g. 16:7). But if that is the case, why do we see Jesus breathing on
        his disciples and telling them to receive the Spirit at 20:22? Is this
        not an unnecessary duplication?
        Elizabeth Danna




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      • Mark Goodacre
        On 25 May 99 at 21:11, N & RJ Hanscamp wrote:Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus breathing his last ? Does anyone
        Message 3 of 7 , May 25 7:22 AM
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          On 25 May 99 at 21:11, N & RJ Hanscamp wrote:

          > Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus
          > "breathing his last"? Does anyone know where else this phrase may be used?
          > (e.g. in wider / classical greek usage)
          >
          > Jn 19.30 KAI KLINAS THN KEQALHV PAREDWKEN TO PNEUMA
          >
          > It is an odd phrase which is not used in the other gospels.

          There is a little on this in the book by Helen Orchard mentioned in my previous
          Email (pp. 221-3). She cites Sanders and Lindars as giving the opinion that
          this indicates the voluntary nature of his death and she criticises the view:

          "Neither the bowing of the head nor the handing over of the spirit can be
          interpreted quite so simplistically" (p. 221).

          She criticises the way Bauer and Haenchen take KLINAS ("bowing" the head) and
          comments on the use of PAREDWKEN as follows:

          "That this overwhelmingly negative term is used to describe Jesus' last action
          cannot fail to influence our interpretation of the verse. Hanson sees a
          possible echor of Isa. 53.12c . . . If there was an allusion to this text it
          would certainly imply a negative meaning -- surrendering his spirit to death
          rather than the Father, as in Luke." (p. 223).

          The latter reference is, of course, to Luke 23.46 and Orchard attempts to show
          how other commentators have been unduly influenced by this Lukan parallel in
          their interpretation of the verse in John (p. 222).

          Orchard continues:

          "The concept of Jesus *betraying* his spirit is a very difficult one, and a
          betrayal could be seen to imply that Jesus had failed either in his work or in
          death. It begins to make some sense, however, if it is interpreted with
          reference to his victimal role. This betrayal is his final collusion with
          darkness . . ." (p. 223).

          Hope this is of interest.

          Mark Goodacre
          --------------------------------------
          Dr Mark Goodacre mailto:M.S.Goodacre@...
          Dept of Theology tel: +44 121 414 7512
          University of Birmingham fax: +44 121 414 6866
          Birmingham B15 2TT United Kingdom

          http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
          Aseneth Home Page
          Recommended New Testament Web Resources
          Mark Without Q

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        • Neil Booth
          Hello Nigel,As I understand it, bowing the head was an act which, in the circumstances of crucifixion, ensured that Jesus breathed his last, ie, it
          Message 4 of 7 , May 25 7:46 AM
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            Hello Nigel,
             
            As I understand it, "bowing the head" was an act which, in the circumstances of crucifixion, ensured that Jesus "breathed his last," ie, it prevented him from breathing and so induced death. I like to link this with John 10:17-18: "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life - only to take it up again. No-one takes it from me but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."
             
            Jesus wasn't killed. He chose to die and chose the moment of his death. Bauer says that here PARADIDWMI means "gave up his spirit *voluntarily*".
             
            Neil
            ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
            There is nothing we can do to make God love us more
            There is nothing we can do to make God love us less
            --------------------<((>< Philip Yancey
            ><))>--------------------
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, 25 May 1999 10:11
            Subject: [John_Lit] [John_lit] Jn 19.30

            Its great to be back.
             
            Does anyone have any thoughts on the following being any more than Jesus "breathing his last"?  Does anyone know where else this phrase may be used? (e.g. in wider / classical greek usage)
             
            Jn 19.30 KAI KLINAS THN KEQALHV PAREDWKEN TO PNEUMA
             
            It is an odd phrase which is not used in the other gospels
             
            thanks
             
            Nigel Hanscamp
            Trinity Methodist Theological College
            Auckland Consortium of Theological Education, New Zealand
            Email: nar.hanscamp@...

            Subscribe: send e-mail briefly describing your academic background & research interests to johannine_literature-subscribe@egroups.com Unsubscribe: e-mail johannine_literature-unsubscribe@egroups.com Contact list managers: e-mail johannine_literature-owner@egroups.com

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          • TonyProst@aol.com
            I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its source?Regards, Tony PRost All Nonnos All Day
            Message 5 of 7 , May 25 8:28 AM
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              I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its
              source?

              Regards,
              Tony PRost
              All Nonnos All Day
              http://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html

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            • TonyProst@aol.com
              To emphasize this, the paraphrase of this verse, by Nonnos of Panopolis in Alexandria (?), c. 450 (?) reads:Paraphrase 9.160kai kephale^n ekline,
              Message 6 of 7 , May 25 8:34 AM
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                To emphasize this, the paraphrase of this verse, by Nonnos of Panopolis in
                Alexandria (?), c. 450 (?) reads:

                Paraphrase 9.160

                kai kephale^n ekline, thele^moni d' eichathe potmo^i

                Regards,
                Tony Prost
                All Nonnos All Day
                http://members.aol.com/tonyprost/index.html

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              • Neil Booth
                On Tuesday, 25 May 1999, Tony Prost wrote ...I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its source?Hello Tony!Yes - gave up
                Message 7 of 7 , May 25 11:00 AM
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                  On Tuesday, 25 May 1999, Tony Prost wrote ...

                  > I guess it means he gave up the ghost? We use it ourselves. Is this its
                  > source?

                  Hello Tony!

                  Yes - "gave up the ghost" is in fact the KJV (AV) translation of the last
                  few words of John 19.30.

                  Neil
                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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                  There is nothing we can do to make God love us more
                  There is nothing we can do to make God love us less
                  --------------------<((>< Philip Yancey ><))>--------------------



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