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RE: [John_Lit] Mr "g" vs mr Gibson

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  • Kevin Dwyer
    I m a non-academic, M.Div. lurker. For the first time on this list I ve found it necessary to install a filter. It is for a contributor, one Mr g . Amen, Piet
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 22, 2001
      I'm a non-academic, M.Div. lurker.
      For the first time on this list I've
      found it necessary to install a filter.
      It is for a contributor, one Mr "g".

      Amen, Piet

      Kevin Dwyer
      Three Rivers, MI

      >Hallo both,
      >
      >Does it make any sense to continue this kind of polemics? Whereas "g" seems
      >to have a frame of reference, some Johannine world of his own, which cannot
      >be shared by any of us, this debate will never reach any conclusion. It is
      >stuffing my mailbox. Jeffrey Gibson, don't keep trying, please. Mr "g", be
      >satisfied with all the attention you got.
      >
      >Isn't it a shame - the last couple of papers went without serous discussion,
      >and look what's happening now.
      >
      >Sadly,
      >Piet van Veldhuizen
      >pi.veldhuizen@... <mailto:pi.veldhuizen@...>
      >
      >
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    • Jack Kilmon
      ... From: Piet van Veldhuizen To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [John_Lit]
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 23, 2001
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Piet van Veldhuizen" <pi.veldhuizen@...>
        To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 3:16 PM
        Subject: RE: [John_Lit] Mr "g" vs mr Gibson


        > Hallo both,
        >
        > Does it make any sense to continue this kind of polemics? Whereas "g"
        seems
        > to have a frame of reference, some Johannine world of his own, which
        cannot
        > be shared by any of us, this debate will never reach any conclusion. It is
        > stuffing my mailbox. Jeffrey Gibson, don't keep trying, please. Mr "g", be
        > satisfied with all the attention you got.
        >
        > Isn't it a shame - the last couple of papers went without serous
        discussion,
        > and look what's happening now.

        The "Greeks equal Samaritans" thread is officially closed.

        Jack


        -----
        ______________________________________________

        taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

        Jack Kilmon
        San Marcos, Tx
        jkilmon@...

        http://www.historian.net

        sharing a meal for free.
        http://www.thehungersite.com/
      • odell mcguire
        Dear George: Your discussion of the term HLLENISTOI as it occurs in Acts6 interests me but I dont have the time to discuss it now and, in any case, agree with
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 24, 2001
          Dear George:

          Your discussion of the term HLLENISTOI as it occurs in Acts6 interests me but I
          dont have the time to discuss it now and, in any case, agree with JG that the
          discussion belongs on another list. But I have a brief opinion and some
          information which might interest you.

          In my opinion the term in this context dates all the way back to Philip. The
          'we' source in Acts picked it up, along with the story of the 7 and much else in
          Acts6-9.31 during his stay of some days with Paul in Caesarea at Philip's house
          around 52 CE.(Acts21.8). Along with Philip and his 3 daughters, Agabus also
          came up from Jerusalem to warn Paul and make his contribution to the
          conversation which so edified the 'we' source, 3E, and ultimately, us.

          The term HLLENISTOI as used in Acts6, and 9.29 undoubtedly denotes certain
          members, hostile to Stephen, to the 7, and later to the converted Paul, men of
          the congregations at Greek language synagogues in the Jerusalem of the mid-30s
          after the crucifixion. What religion and heritage might these members have
          claimed? The choices are obviously limited.

          Have you considered the possibility that Philip might have been a Greek speaking
          Samaritan? His home, his ministry, his encounters with Simon Magus were in
          Samaria. And I have the idea, probably from Gaston (*see below), that the
          Pentateuch verses quoted in Stephen's swan song are from the Samaritan version
          of LXX.

          *L. Gaston, *No Stone on Another, etc* Nov Test Suppl. 23, Leiden 1970

          Sorry I don't have a more specific reference--I had the book on IL--but as I
          recall Gaston has many ideas (too many?) on the relation of Samaritanism to the
          earliest church.

          But you might be interested.
          --
          Best wishes, Odell

          Odell McGuire
          omcguire@...
          Prof. Geology Em., W&L
          Lexington, VA
        • Maluflen@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/24/2001 11:20:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omcguire@wlu.edu writes:
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 24, 2001
            In a message dated 4/24/2001 11:20:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
            omcguire@... writes:

            << Have you considered the possibility that Philip might have been a Greek
            speaking
            Samaritan? His home, his ministry, his encounters with Simon Magus were in
            Samaria. And I have the idea, probably from Gaston (*see below), that the
            Pentateuch verses quoted in Stephen's swan song are from the Samaritan
            version
            of LXX. >>

            Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and Philip the
            deacon of Acts? If so, on what grounds? Or do you think Luke intentionally
            bifurcated the identity of a single historical individual (Philip), who is
            mentioned in two different lists (Acts 1:13 and 6:5), the second of which
            claims to list a group of men explicitly distinguished from the first (6:2)?
            And if so, why?

            Leonard Maluf
          • odell mcguire
            ... No. I think its plain enough I am only talking about the DIAKONOS and the uses of HLLENISTOI in Acts6 thru 9. However I dont t think the available
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 27, 2001
              Maluflen@... wrote:

              > In a message dated 4/24/2001 11:20:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              > omcguire@... writes:
              >
              > << Have you considered the possibility that Philip might have been a Greek
              > speaking
              > Samaritan? His home, his ministry, his encounters with Simon Magus were in
              > Samaria. And I have the idea, probably from Gaston (*see below), that the
              > Pentateuch verses quoted in Stephen's swan song are from the Samaritan
              > version
              > of LXX. >>
              >
              > Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and Philip the
              > deacon of Acts?
              > (SNIP)
              > Leonard Maluf

              No. I think its plain enough I am only talking about the DIAKONOS and the uses
              of HLLENISTOI in Acts6 thru 9. However I dont't think the
              available evidence has entirely disproved his identity with the disciple, as
              most would argue. But, on the whole, as of now, I am inclined to think they
              were probably different people.

              And if they were not, I would further suggest that the 'we' source in Luke
              (whom I identify with the socalled Antiochean source AND the source behind
              Acts 6.1 thru 9.31) got it right and Mark, writing 15 or 20 yr after 'we',
              got it wrong and conferred discipleship on on the by-then famous and no doubt
              deceased preacher who had founded the first church outside Jerusalem. Both 4E
              and the 3Es informant of the Petrine fantasy tales which occupy Acts1-5,
              9.32ff, another half generation after Mark, perpetuated Mark's error. So, by
              my admittedly idiosyncratic reckoning, the deacon was not a disciple even if
              there was only one Philip.
              --
              Best wishes, Odell

              Odell McGuire
              omcguire@...
              Prof. Geology Em., W&L
              Lexington, VA
            • Maluflen@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/27/2001 8:46:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omcguire@wlu.edu writes: Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 27, 2001
                In a message dated 4/27/2001 8:46:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                omcguire@... writes:

                << > Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and Philip
                the
                > deacon of Acts?
                > (SNIP)
                > Leonard Maluf

                No. I think its plain enough I am only talking about the DIAKONOS and the
                uses
                of HLLENISTOI in Acts6 thru 9. >>

                My apologies. I had read your post too hastily and thought you were speaking
                about the term hELLHNES in Jn 12:20. It is indeed plain enough, and my
                question was accordingly not ad rem.

                Leonard Maluf
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