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Re: [John_Lit] Mr "g" vs mr Gibson

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... No, it does not make any sense. And so I apologize to the List for only now coming to the conclusion that was proably apparent to many of you long before
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 22, 2001
      Piet van Veldhuizen wrote:

      > Hallo both,
      >
      > Does it make any sense to continue this kind of polemics? Whereas "g" seems
      > to have a frame of reference, some Johannine world of his own, which cannot
      > be shared by any of us, this debate will never reach any conclusion. It is
      > stuffing my mailbox. Jeffrey Gibson, don't keep trying, please. Mr "g", be
      > satisfied with all the attention you got.

      No, it does not make any sense. And so I apologize to the List for only now
      coming to the conclusion that was proably apparent to many of you long before
      this -- as well as for my part in perpetuating the posting of ruminations that
      ought to have been terminated some time ago.

      Yours,

      Jeffrey Gibson

      --
      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.)
      7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
      Chicago, Illinois 60626
      e-mail jgibson000@...
    • Kevin Dwyer
      I m a non-academic, M.Div. lurker. For the first time on this list I ve found it necessary to install a filter. It is for a contributor, one Mr g . Amen, Piet
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 22, 2001
        I'm a non-academic, M.Div. lurker.
        For the first time on this list I've
        found it necessary to install a filter.
        It is for a contributor, one Mr "g".

        Amen, Piet

        Kevin Dwyer
        Three Rivers, MI

        >Hallo both,
        >
        >Does it make any sense to continue this kind of polemics? Whereas "g" seems
        >to have a frame of reference, some Johannine world of his own, which cannot
        >be shared by any of us, this debate will never reach any conclusion. It is
        >stuffing my mailbox. Jeffrey Gibson, don't keep trying, please. Mr "g", be
        >satisfied with all the attention you got.
        >
        >Isn't it a shame - the last couple of papers went without serous discussion,
        >and look what's happening now.
        >
        >Sadly,
        >Piet van Veldhuizen
        >pi.veldhuizen@... <mailto:pi.veldhuizen@...>
        >
        >
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      • Jack Kilmon
        ... From: Piet van Veldhuizen To: Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [John_Lit]
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 23, 2001
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Piet van Veldhuizen" <pi.veldhuizen@...>
          To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 3:16 PM
          Subject: RE: [John_Lit] Mr "g" vs mr Gibson


          > Hallo both,
          >
          > Does it make any sense to continue this kind of polemics? Whereas "g"
          seems
          > to have a frame of reference, some Johannine world of his own, which
          cannot
          > be shared by any of us, this debate will never reach any conclusion. It is
          > stuffing my mailbox. Jeffrey Gibson, don't keep trying, please. Mr "g", be
          > satisfied with all the attention you got.
          >
          > Isn't it a shame - the last couple of papers went without serous
          discussion,
          > and look what's happening now.

          The "Greeks equal Samaritans" thread is officially closed.

          Jack


          -----
          ______________________________________________

          taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

          Jack Kilmon
          San Marcos, Tx
          jkilmon@...

          http://www.historian.net

          sharing a meal for free.
          http://www.thehungersite.com/
        • odell mcguire
          Dear George: Your discussion of the term HLLENISTOI as it occurs in Acts6 interests me but I dont have the time to discuss it now and, in any case, agree with
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 24, 2001
            Dear George:

            Your discussion of the term HLLENISTOI as it occurs in Acts6 interests me but I
            dont have the time to discuss it now and, in any case, agree with JG that the
            discussion belongs on another list. But I have a brief opinion and some
            information which might interest you.

            In my opinion the term in this context dates all the way back to Philip. The
            'we' source in Acts picked it up, along with the story of the 7 and much else in
            Acts6-9.31 during his stay of some days with Paul in Caesarea at Philip's house
            around 52 CE.(Acts21.8). Along with Philip and his 3 daughters, Agabus also
            came up from Jerusalem to warn Paul and make his contribution to the
            conversation which so edified the 'we' source, 3E, and ultimately, us.

            The term HLLENISTOI as used in Acts6, and 9.29 undoubtedly denotes certain
            members, hostile to Stephen, to the 7, and later to the converted Paul, men of
            the congregations at Greek language synagogues in the Jerusalem of the mid-30s
            after the crucifixion. What religion and heritage might these members have
            claimed? The choices are obviously limited.

            Have you considered the possibility that Philip might have been a Greek speaking
            Samaritan? His home, his ministry, his encounters with Simon Magus were in
            Samaria. And I have the idea, probably from Gaston (*see below), that the
            Pentateuch verses quoted in Stephen's swan song are from the Samaritan version
            of LXX.

            *L. Gaston, *No Stone on Another, etc* Nov Test Suppl. 23, Leiden 1970

            Sorry I don't have a more specific reference--I had the book on IL--but as I
            recall Gaston has many ideas (too many?) on the relation of Samaritanism to the
            earliest church.

            But you might be interested.
            --
            Best wishes, Odell

            Odell McGuire
            omcguire@...
            Prof. Geology Em., W&L
            Lexington, VA
          • Maluflen@aol.com
            In a message dated 4/24/2001 11:20:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, omcguire@wlu.edu writes:
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 24, 2001
              In a message dated 4/24/2001 11:20:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
              omcguire@... writes:

              << Have you considered the possibility that Philip might have been a Greek
              speaking
              Samaritan? His home, his ministry, his encounters with Simon Magus were in
              Samaria. And I have the idea, probably from Gaston (*see below), that the
              Pentateuch verses quoted in Stephen's swan song are from the Samaritan
              version
              of LXX. >>

              Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and Philip the
              deacon of Acts? If so, on what grounds? Or do you think Luke intentionally
              bifurcated the identity of a single historical individual (Philip), who is
              mentioned in two different lists (Acts 1:13 and 6:5), the second of which
              claims to list a group of men explicitly distinguished from the first (6:2)?
              And if so, why?

              Leonard Maluf
            • odell mcguire
              ... No. I think its plain enough I am only talking about the DIAKONOS and the uses of HLLENISTOI in Acts6 thru 9. However I dont t think the available
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 27, 2001
                Maluflen@... wrote:

                > In a message dated 4/24/2001 11:20:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
                > omcguire@... writes:
                >
                > << Have you considered the possibility that Philip might have been a Greek
                > speaking
                > Samaritan? His home, his ministry, his encounters with Simon Magus were in
                > Samaria. And I have the idea, probably from Gaston (*see below), that the
                > Pentateuch verses quoted in Stephen's swan song are from the Samaritan
                > version
                > of LXX. >>
                >
                > Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and Philip the
                > deacon of Acts?
                > (SNIP)
                > Leonard Maluf

                No. I think its plain enough I am only talking about the DIAKONOS and the uses
                of HLLENISTOI in Acts6 thru 9. However I dont't think the
                available evidence has entirely disproved his identity with the disciple, as
                most would argue. But, on the whole, as of now, I am inclined to think they
                were probably different people.

                And if they were not, I would further suggest that the 'we' source in Luke
                (whom I identify with the socalled Antiochean source AND the source behind
                Acts 6.1 thru 9.31) got it right and Mark, writing 15 or 20 yr after 'we',
                got it wrong and conferred discipleship on on the by-then famous and no doubt
                deceased preacher who had founded the first church outside Jerusalem. Both 4E
                and the 3Es informant of the Petrine fantasy tales which occupy Acts1-5,
                9.32ff, another half generation after Mark, perpetuated Mark's error. So, by
                my admittedly idiosyncratic reckoning, the deacon was not a disciple even if
                there was only one Philip.
                --
                Best wishes, Odell

                Odell McGuire
                omcguire@...
                Prof. Geology Em., W&L
                Lexington, VA
              • Maluflen@aol.com
                In a message dated 4/27/2001 8:46:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, omcguire@wlu.edu writes: Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 27, 2001
                  In a message dated 4/27/2001 8:46:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                  omcguire@... writes:

                  << > Are you assuming here an identity between Philip the apostle and Philip
                  the
                  > deacon of Acts?
                  > (SNIP)
                  > Leonard Maluf

                  No. I think its plain enough I am only talking about the DIAKONOS and the
                  uses
                  of HLLENISTOI in Acts6 thru 9. >>

                  My apologies. I had read your post too hastily and thought you were speaking
                  about the term hELLHNES in Jn 12:20. It is indeed plain enough, and my
                  question was accordingly not ad rem.

                  Leonard Maluf
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