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sour wine again

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  • diadem
    Re: sour wine The available evidence for the use of sour wine as a refreshing drink in summer, as a nervous stimulant, or as an act of mockery, are all equally
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 2, 2001
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      Re: sour wine
      The available evidence for the use of sour wine as a refreshing drink in
      summer, as a nervous stimulant, or as an act of mockery, are all equally
      valid. The article by Heidland in KITTEL vol.5 p.288,89, takes one view.
      The medical studies I remember looking at a couple of years ago, took a
      different view. In the end, I guess we will all take the line that we
      feel most comfortable with.
      One thing is clear, though. At the crucifixion scene, the sour wine,
      whether or not mixed with "gall", was there as part of the proceedings.
      Noone had to rush home and get some. Anyway there were no shops nearby
      as this happened outside the city.
      Finally, sincere thanks to Elizabeth Dana for correcting me on the
      inventor of crucifixion. I had read Hengel some time back. I guess
      because all the accounts of crucifixion I had read over the years were
      all Roman ones I blamed them for not only making it into more of an
      audience participation event, but also for inventing it. Sorry about
      that!
      However we read the crucifixion scene as portrayed by the four gospels,
      one thing stands out to me. Jesus had a fully human body that reacted in
      a totally human way and finally gave up its life force. Jesus really did
      die. It is in this context that I believe we must formulate the
      symbolism of the sour wine.
      I must also have this to say about my compatriot Barbara Thiering (Jesus
      of the Apocalypse). One horrific effect of crucifixion, no matter what
      drugs may have been ingested, was the dislocation of shoulders, hips and
      knees. That such a body could have been taken off the cross, into a cave
      and brought back to consciousness and well-being would take a greater
      miracle than the resurrection, to my mind!
      Ross Saunders from DownUnder.
    • Horace Jeffery Hodges
      Ross, my question concerned why you identify the vinegar as the same drink as the wine mixed with gall. I am still not clear on this. Let me cite carefully:
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 2, 2001
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        Ross, my question concerned why you identify the
        vinegar as the same drink as the wine mixed with gall.
        I am still not clear on this.

        Let me cite carefully:

        Matthew 27:34 -- oinon meta cholas (=wine with gall)

        Matthew 27:48 -- oksous (=vinegar)

        Mark 15:23 -- esmurnismenon oinon (=myrrh-spiced wine)

        Mark 15:36 -- oksous (=vinegar)

        Luke 23:36 -- oksos (=vinegar)

        John 19:29-30 -- oksous (2X) + oksos (=vinegar)

        So, my question is this: Do you have a reason for
        thinking that the wine referred to above is the same
        drink as the vinegar referred to above?

        I can see that a harmony of the gospels might use Luke
        to attempt to identify the two drinks as the same
        drink, but why would Matthew and Mark use two
        different words for the same drink? Do you have a
        hypothesis?

        Jeffery Hodges

        =====
        Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
        Department of English Language and Literature
        Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
        447-791 Kyunggido Osan-City
        Yangsandong 411
        South Korea

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