Re: [John_Lit] The Johannine Jews
- The "scattered children of God"(v.52) are a separate group to
the "nation"(v.51). This is a "not only...but also" construction.
Both groups are different entities, but both are saved, and
eventually gathered into one. Pancaro argued that "nation" in this
passge referred to the Jewish nation, whereas "people" or "children
of God" refers to those who are of the believing community. Of
course, the believing community would include people who were
ethnically Jewish, but John's Gospel refers to such people as "true
Israelites" or some such thing. The word "Jew" is normally reserved
for Jesus' Jewish opponents.
Hope this helps
JOHN E STATON
--- In johannine_literature@y..., ProfRam@a... wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> One question, in light of Frank's research into Israel, people,
> In 11:50 Caiaphas says it is expedient for one man to die for the
> all know that this was not a statement about redemption thru the
> purely a political strategy.
> But when the author repeats it in v 51 (using 'nation' instead
> is it still just political or is it now a statement about the
> have assumed it to be the latter because it appeals to Caiaphas
> prophet and therefore speaking more wisely than he knows.
> My question is, Does this mean that in John's Gospel, Jesus died
> nation of Israel? Is this the same as saying that he died for "the
> does "the nation" now mean Christians (on the basis of some sort of
> supersessionism). I would think it still means the Jewish people
because in v
> 52 it goes on to add the Gentiles. Supersession doesn't seem to
> If in chapter 10 he dies for his own sheep (10:11, 15), and in
chapter 11 he
> dies for the Jewish nation, then are the Jews still his sheep?
> Jews addressed in 10:26 are not, but 10:19-21 suggests that "there
> and then there are Jews." They are not a monolithic group but are
torn by a
> schism (see also 7:43, 9:16).
> If indeed Jesus died for (some of) the Jews, then are they "the
> God who are *not* scattered abroad," in contrast to those who are
(v 52)? If
> they are children of God, then I guess they are not children of the
> Are we generalizing too much about the Jews in John's Gospel.
> Ramsey Michaels