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Re: [John_Lit] Discussion of "Bye-Word: A 'Soul Reading' of Jesus' Farewell Discourse"

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  • FMMCCOY
    Dear Michael Newheart and Other JL Listers: You pen, Jesusfathershouse, which is not the temple but Jesus body (2:16,21) is many-dwellinged. Lots of room
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 7, 2001
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      Dear Michael Newheart and Other JL Listers:

      You pen, "Jesusfathershouse, which is not the temple but Jesus' body
      (2:16,21) is many-dwellinged. Lots of room for father and son and children
      to gather together into one (11:52). Jesus goes there (Why does he need to
      go to his fathershouse if he is it?) to for the disciples place-prepare one
      of these many dwellings. After going, Jesus gonna come again to the
      disciples to receive them into his bodyhouse so that they, his
      servant-follwers, his father-given-ones, can be where he is and see his
      loving glory (12:26, 17:24)."
      The scenario for 14:2-3 is a little different if one assumes that this
      passage and many other sections of John have been heavily influenced by the
      thought of an African contemporary of Jesus named Philo.
      In this case, the templetabernacle of every human is fleshblood (Gen. I,
      28, "The human skene is made of bones, flesh, arteries, veins, nerves,
      ligaments and the vessels of breathing and of the blood."). Jesuslogos
      became incarnate as a human being in the fleshblood, thereby gaining this
      fleshblood as his templetabernacle (1:14, 2:19-22).
      Jesuslogosfatherstempletabernacle, Jesuslogosfathershouse, is Sophia
      (Cong. 116, "He will speak of
      God's dwelling-place, the tabernacle,...and Sophia is the court and palace
      of the All-ruler".). It is the Spirit which is this Sophia ( Deus 2-3,
      "That something is his words about the Divine Spirit....It is after that
      Spirit (has gone) that the angels or messenges (of falsehood) go in to 'the
      daughters of men'. For while the soul is illumined by the bright and pure
      rays of Sophia, through which the sage sees God and His potencies, none of
      the messengers of falsehood has access to the (human) reason"). Sophia, in
      turn, is Arete. (Genesis, III, 29, "'I am struck dumb by the appearance of
      Arete and Sophia. For at the sight of this royal sovereign it shudders and
      is dismayed".).
      Jesuslogosfathershouse of Spiritsophiaarete is many-dwllinged and in
      these dwellings dwell worthy soulminds dwelling on what is truly worthy
      (L.A. iii 152, "Because the soul
      cannot have any dealings with any of the body's friends while it abides with
      good sense and spends its days in the house of Sophia...For when it has gone
      forth from the sacred dwellings of Arete, it is then that it turns to
      material things".).
      The soulmind enters into the house and residences of Spiritsophiaarete by
      being called above by this Spiritsophiaarete (Plant. 24-26, "It is strange
      if a light substance like the mind is not rendered buoyant and raised to the
      utmost height by the native force of the Divine Spirit, overcoming as it
      does in its boundless might all powers that are here below...Accordingly
      Moses...will be called above; for it is said in the Book of Leviticus, 'He
      called Moses up above.'"). This calling above of the soulmind is a second
      birth in which the sole father is Jesuslogosfather (Exodus, II 46, "But the
      calling above of the prophet (i.e., Moses) is a second birth better than the
      first. For the latter is mixed with a body and had corruptible parents,
      while the former is an unmixed and simple soul of the soveregn,...which has
      no mother but only a father, who is (the Father) of all."). Having been
      born a second time not by bloodflesh and human cravings but by
      Jesuslogosfather through Spiritsophiaarete, soulminds
      in the house and residences of Spiritsophiaarete that are beyond the
      perception of those who remain earthbound are
      Jesuslogosfatherschildren (1:12-13 and 3:6-8)..
      Spiritsophiaarete is within Jesuslogos, a part of his very self, and he
      gives it to soulminds as an offering of himself (Som. ii 245 & 249, "No, he
      is representing the Divine Logos as full of the stream of Sophia, with no
      part of it empty or devoid of itself....And when the happy soul holds out
      the sacred goblet of its own reason, who is it that pours into it the holy
      cupfuls of true gladness but the Logos, the Cup-bearer of God and Master of
      the feast, who is also none other than the draught which he pours-his own
      self free from all dilution".).
      Since Spiritsophiaarete, Jesuslogosfathershouse, is a part of the self of
      Jesuslogos, he, too, is Jesuslogosfathershouse..(Mig. 4, "God, the Mind of
      the Cosmos, has for His house His own Logos.").
      When Jesuslogos, as Jesuslogosfathershouse, is heavenlyhigh, he is
      house-ready, place-prepared, to receive Jesuslogosfatherschildren (Plant.,
      52-53, "Bring in us, the children,...and plant us in a high and heavenly
      Logos. For this is a 'portion' best prepared, a 'house' most ready, and
      abode most fitting, which 'Thou has wrought as a Holy Place (Exodus
      15:17).'").
      They are not brought into Jesuslogos in their templetabernacles
      of fleshblood, but as pure soulminds,
      and they are planted, by Jesuslogosfather in Jesuslogos as
      immortalfruitfulbranches. (Cong. 56-57, "The mind which truly loves
      God,...He 'plants' as a branch (klematida) of goodly birth and He deepens
      its roots to reach to eternity and gives it fruitfulness for the acquisition
      and enjoyment of virtue. This is why Moses prays in these words, 'Bring
      them in and plant them in.' (Exodus 15:17).").
      So, the meaning of 14:1-3, I suggest, is this:
      Jesuslogosfatherstempletabernacle, Jesuslogosfathershouse, is the
      many-dwellinged Spiritsophiaarete and, since Spiritsophiaarete is a part of
      the very self of Jesuslogos , it is also
      Jesuslogos. Jesuslogos must now depart from earth,
      to become once more
      heavenlyhigh, in order to make himself, as Jesuslogosfathers house,
      house-ready, place-prepared. When he
      is house-ready, place-prepared, he will send himself as the
      Spiritsophiaarete into the soulminds of his disciples, so that he will be
      abidimg within them. Himself, as Spiritsophiaarete, will then call their
      soulminds
      above into himself as Jesuslogosfathershouse so that they can find a
      new home in him in which they, while abiding in him
      as he abides in them, are planted by God in Jesuslogos, thereby becoming the
      immortalfruitfulbranches of Jesuslogos (15:1 & 5).

      Regards,

      Frank McCoy
      Maplewood MN USA
    • Michael Newheart
      Cool! You have Frankly brought in some helpful info from the literary milieu and you have done it in the spirit (Spiritsophiaarete?) of my paper. Bravo!
      Message 2 of 3 , Feb 8, 2001
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        Cool! You have Frankly brought in some helpful info from the literary milieu
        and you have done it in the spirit (Spiritsophiaarete?) of my paper. Bravo!

        Michael

        -----Original Message-----
        From: FMMCCOY <FMMCCOY@...>
        To: johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com
        <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:53 PM
        Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Discussion of "Bye-Word: A 'Soul Reading' of Jesus'
        Farewell Discourse"


        >
        >Dear Michael Newheart and Other JL Listers:
        >
        > You pen, "Jesusfathershouse, which is not the temple but Jesus' body
        >(2:16,21) is many-dwellinged. Lots of room for father and son and children
        >to gather together into one (11:52). Jesus goes there (Why does he need to
        >go to his fathershouse if he is it?) to for the disciples place-prepare one
        >of these many dwellings. After going, Jesus gonna come again to the
        >disciples to receive them into his bodyhouse so that they, his
        >servant-follwers, his father-given-ones, can be where he is and see his
        >loving glory (12:26, 17:24)."
        > The scenario for 14:2-3 is a little different if one assumes that this
        >passage and many other sections of John have been heavily influenced by the
        >thought of an African contemporary of Jesus named Philo.
        > In this case, the templetabernacle of every human is fleshblood (Gen. I,
        >28, "The human skene is made of bones, flesh, arteries, veins, nerves,
        >ligaments and the vessels of breathing and of the blood."). Jesuslogos
        >became incarnate as a human being in the fleshblood, thereby gaining this
        >fleshblood as his templetabernacle (1:14, 2:19-22).
        > Jesuslogosfatherstempletabernacle, Jesuslogosfathershouse, is Sophia
        >(Cong. 116, "He will speak of
        >God's dwelling-place, the tabernacle,...and Sophia is the court and palace
        >of the All-ruler".). It is the Spirit which is this Sophia ( Deus 2-3,
        >"That something is his words about the Divine Spirit....It is after that
        >Spirit (has gone) that the angels or messenges (of falsehood) go in to 'the
        >daughters of men'. For while the soul is illumined by the bright and pure
        >rays of Sophia, through which the sage sees God and His potencies, none of
        >the messengers of falsehood has access to the (human) reason"). Sophia,
        in
        >turn, is Arete. (Genesis, III, 29, "'I am struck dumb by the appearance of
        >Arete and Sophia. For at the sight of this royal sovereign it shudders and
        >is dismayed".).
        > Jesuslogosfathershouse of Spiritsophiaarete is many-dwllinged and in
        >these dwellings dwell worthy soulminds dwelling on what is truly worthy
        >(L.A. iii 152, "Because the soul
        >cannot have any dealings with any of the body's friends while it abides
        with
        >good sense and spends its days in the house of Sophia...For when it has
        gone
        >forth from the sacred dwellings of Arete, it is then that it turns to
        >material things".).
        > The soulmind enters into the house and residences of Spiritsophiaarete
        by
        >being called above by this Spiritsophiaarete (Plant. 24-26, "It is strange
        >if a light substance like the mind is not rendered buoyant and raised to
        the
        >utmost height by the native force of the Divine Spirit, overcoming as it
        >does in its boundless might all powers that are here below...Accordingly
        >Moses...will be called above; for it is said in the Book of Leviticus, 'He
        >called Moses up above.'"). This calling above of the soulmind is a second
        >birth in which the sole father is Jesuslogosfather (Exodus, II 46, "But the
        >calling above of the prophet (i.e., Moses) is a second birth better than
        the
        >first. For the latter is mixed with a body and had corruptible parents,
        >while the former is an unmixed and simple soul of the soveregn,...which has
        >no mother but only a father, who is (the Father) of all."). Having been
        >born a second time not by bloodflesh and human cravings but by
        >Jesuslogosfather through Spiritsophiaarete, soulminds
        >in the house and residences of Spiritsophiaarete that are beyond the
        >perception of those who remain earthbound are
        >Jesuslogosfatherschildren (1:12-13 and 3:6-8)..
        > Spiritsophiaarete is within Jesuslogos, a part of his very self, and he
        >gives it to soulminds as an offering of himself (Som. ii 245 & 249, "No,
        he
        >is representing the Divine Logos as full of the stream of Sophia, with no
        >part of it empty or devoid of itself....And when the happy soul holds out
        >the sacred goblet of its own reason, who is it that pours into it the holy
        >cupfuls of true gladness but the Logos, the Cup-bearer of God and Master of
        >the feast, who is also none other than the draught which he pours-his own
        >self free from all dilution".).
        > Since Spiritsophiaarete, Jesuslogosfathershouse, is a part of the self
        of
        >Jesuslogos, he, too, is Jesuslogosfathershouse..(Mig. 4, "God, the Mind of
        >the Cosmos, has for His house His own Logos.").
        > When Jesuslogos, as Jesuslogosfathershouse, is heavenlyhigh, he is
        >house-ready, place-prepared, to receive Jesuslogosfatherschildren (Plant.,
        >52-53, "Bring in us, the children,...and plant us in a high and heavenly
        >Logos. For this is a 'portion' best prepared, a 'house' most ready, and
        >abode most fitting, which 'Thou has wrought as a Holy Place (Exodus
        >15:17).'").
        > They are not brought into Jesuslogos in their templetabernacles
        >of fleshblood, but as pure soulminds,
        >and they are planted, by Jesuslogosfather in Jesuslogos as
        >immortalfruitfulbranches. (Cong. 56-57, "The mind which truly loves
        >God,...He 'plants' as a branch (klematida) of goodly birth and He deepens
        >its roots to reach to eternity and gives it fruitfulness for the
        acquisition
        >and enjoyment of virtue. This is why Moses prays in these words, 'Bring
        >them in and plant them in.' (Exodus 15:17).").
        > So, the meaning of 14:1-3, I suggest, is this:
        >Jesuslogosfatherstempletabernacle, Jesuslogosfathershouse, is the
        >many-dwellinged Spiritsophiaarete and, since Spiritsophiaarete is a part of
        >the very self of Jesuslogos , it is also
        >Jesuslogos. Jesuslogos must now depart from earth,
        >to become once more
        >heavenlyhigh, in order to make himself, as Jesuslogosfathers house,
        >house-ready, place-prepared. When he
        >is house-ready, place-prepared, he will send himself as the
        >Spiritsophiaarete into the soulminds of his disciples, so that he will be
        >abidimg within them. Himself, as Spiritsophiaarete, will then call their
        >soulminds
        >above into himself as Jesuslogosfathershouse so that they can find a
        >new home in him in which they, while abiding in him
        >as he abides in them, are planted by God in Jesuslogos, thereby becoming
        the
        >immortalfruitfulbranches of Jesuslogos (15:1 & 5).
        >
        >Regards,
        >
        >Frank McCoy
        >Maplewood MN USA
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >SUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >UNSUBSCRIBE: e-mail johannine_literature-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >PROBLEMS?: e-mail johannine_literature-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >
      • FMMCCOY
        ... From: Michael Newheart To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 4:44 AM Subject: Re:
        Message 3 of 3 , Feb 10, 2001
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Michael Newheart" <mjnewheart@...>
          To: <johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 4:44 AM
          Subject: Re: [John_Lit] Discussion of "Bye-Word: A 'Soul Reading' of Jesus'
          Farewell Discourse"


          > Cool! You have Frankly brought in some helpful info from the literary
          milieu
          > and you have done it in the spirit (Spiritsophiaarete?) of my paper.
          Bravo!
          >
          > Michael
          >
          Thank you Michae!. You make me feel so good I think I can carry the ball
          and leap over the Jordan to Jordan in a single bound, and that's no Bulls.
          After such applause, what can I do but give an encore--this time extending
          the Philionic-style analysis of 14:2-3 to verses 4-6, keeping in mind your
          words (which I hand-copied first, so hopefully they are rendered with
          reasonable accuracy), "Jesus says,...IAM AMI IAM IAM the
          waytruthlife...Through this living truthful way which Jesus the IAM is,
          people come to the father (Only, no exceptions! Jesus is the fathers only
          broker)."
          The one sole Way of the soulmind in its soulful journey on calloused
          soles to
          Jesuslogosfather is Spiritsophiaarete (Deus, 159-60, "So then brooking no
          delay we should essay to march by the Kings high way (the true El Camino
          Real--the super high way of soulminds rather than of cars)...This way is, as
          I said but now, Sophia, by which alone suppliant souls can make their escape
          to the Uncreated.").
          Spiritsophiaarete is also Truth (Som. i 218 &220, The white linen
          garment worn by the High Priest when entering the Holy of Holies symbolizes
          "the cloudless splendour of Truth"--which is "the all-white and gleaming
          vestment which is Arete".).
          Besides being the only Way to Jesuslogosfather and the Truth,
          Spiritsophiaarete is also Life (Her. 53, "'For Adam,' it says, 'called the
          name of his wife Life (Zoe) because she is the mother of all things living,'
          that is doubtless of those who are in truth dead to the life of the soul.
          But those who are truly living have Sophia for their Mother".).
          Spiritsophiaarete, the Life, is also the light that enlightens soulminds
          (Deus 3, "For while the soul is illumined through by the bright and pure
          rays of Sophia,..".). She fills Jesuslogos--for in him is this Life that is
          the light of men (1:4). As she fills him, becoming a part of his very self,
          he, too is this Life that is the light of men--the true light that
          enlightens every man (1:9).
          Since Spiritsophiaarete, the waytruthlife who is only way to
          Jesuslogosfather, fills Jesuslogos, becoming a part of his very self, he,
          too, particularly in his role as the personification of the speech of
          Jesuslogosfather, is the only way to Jesuslogosfather--so that the way to
          Jesuslogosfather is a single soulssoleway that is, too,
          a twowayway (Post., 101-102, "Since God is the first and sole King of the
          universe, the way leading to Him, being a King's way, is also naturally
          called royal...This royal way, then, which we have just said to be true and
          genuine philosophy, is called in the Law the speech (hrema) and Logos of
          God.")
          As Jesuslogos personifies the speech of Jesuslogosfather through which
          Jesuslogosfather created the Cosmos, the Cosmos was created by
          Jesuslogosfather through Jesuslogos (Sac. 8, "For that same Logos by which
          He made the Cosmos is that by which He draws the perfect man from things
          earthly to Himself."). So, in the Beginning was Jesuslogos and he was with
          Jesuslogosfather and all things were made though him and without him was
          nothing made that was made (1:1-3).
          Because Jesuslogosfather was in the Beginning, He precedes the space-time
          continuum and, so, He exists in the eternity in which there is only present
          existence (Deus 32, "The world of our senses, when set in motion, brought
          that entity we call time to the brightness of its rising. And thus with God
          there is no future, since He has made the boundaries of the ages subject to
          Himself. For God's life is not a time, but eternity, which is the archetype
          and pattern of time; and in eternity there is no past nor future, but only
          present existence."). Living in the Eternalnow, Jesuslogosfather can say,
          "IAM AMI".
          Becaise Jesuslogos was in the Beginning, he, too, lives in the Eternalnow
          and, so, he can say, "Before Abraham was, IAM AMI." (8:58).
          Since Spiritsophiaarete, the waytruthlife that is the soulssoleway to
          Jesuslogosfather, fills Jesuslogos, becoming a
          part of his very self, he, too, is the waytruthlife that is the soulssoleway
          to Jesuslogosfather. So, as he lives in the
          Eternalnow, he can say, "IAM AMI IAM IAM the waytruthlife. Through this
          living truthful way which I the IAM is, people come to the father.."

          Regards,

          Frank McCoy
          Maplewood, MN USA
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