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Re:19:26-27 [John_Lit] Jn 19 response to Mary's response to Ken

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  • Ken Durkin
    ... From: Mary Coloe ... Mary also wrote in an earlier post:
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 8, 2001
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mary Coloe" <M.Coloe@...>

      > Thanks Ken, I was interested in your comments on Jn 21 - where do you see
      > that this contradicts the plot? Also i take the line that Jn 21 is an
      > addition and has its own theological and eccelesial agenda.
      > The scene with the BD and mother of Jesus is where the BD becomes son to
      > the M of Jesus therefore brother to Jesus and therefore is drawn into the
      > House of 'My Father' ie it is the formation of a new House(hold) of God ie
      > Temple.

      Mary also wrote in an earlier post:
      <the [Temple] symbolism gradually shifts to include the future community of
      believers endowed with the Spirit - in the absence of Jesus, the Divine
      Presence will continue to dwell in the midst of the Johannine community so
      that they can be called Temple...>

      This theme is neatly concluded in 20:23 with the gift of the Spirit, and
      rounded off with 20:30-31.

      But with a reappearing Jesus in 20:26-29, and chapter 21, it seems
      as though these stories have been added by a writer who is not confident
      about the community as the presence of Jesus through his Spirit. Perhaps
      "contradiction" is too strong, but 21 does not support the the main theme.
      Frank Moloney in his commentary sees 21 disturbing "the impact of his words
      blessing those who believe without seeing in 20:29" (p558). I would say 21
      disturbs the impact of the gift of the Spirit in 20:23.

      Your intpretation of 19:25b-27 is persuasive Mary, and I could go along with
      it except that I have a suspicion that the story was not in the text used by
      the writer of 21. I think 19:25b-27 is added by the writer of 21 (who we
      know is interested in the BD with 25% of 21). It seems to be an
      interpolation because 19:23-25a is concerned with showing how the events
      fulfilled scripture, and fulfilment of scripture is picked up again in
      19:28. META TOUTO refers to 9:25b. So, in a section headed "Death as
      fulfilment of scripture" from v23 to v37, the story of the BD and the mother
      of Jesus is inserted.

      From your synopsis though it does not seem to me that 19:25b-27 is essential
      to your thesis. The formation of the new household, "the future community of
      believers endowed with the Spirit", is the giving of the Spirit to the
      gathered disciples. Surely this is a more important climax of the plot than

      So, as I see it, the writer of 21 identifies a couple of occasions where a
      disciple is the BD, and composes one story to insert in chapter19. And
      embellishes19:35. And fails to add "BD" to other possible occasions such as
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