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5929Re: [John_Lit] The Targums and the "Son of Man" title

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  • jgibson000@comcast.net
    Feb 3, 2011
      On 2/3/2011 2:46 PM, Jack Kilmon wrote:
      > --------------------------------------------------
      > From:<jgibson000@...>
      > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 1:34 PM
      > To:<johannine_literature@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: [John_Lit] The Targums and the "Son of Man" title
      >> On 2/3/2011 1:27 PM, Jack Kilmon wrote:
      >>> I do not think that the use of the self designation בר אנשׁ by Jesus,
      >>> about
      >>> 30 times in Matthew, was to avoid or obscure the direct claim to being
      >>> the
      >>> Messiah. I don't think Jesus considered himself to be the Messiah but
      >>> instead exactly what he claimed himself many times, the "Son of Man" of
      >>> Daniel and Enoch.
      >> And what exactly would that claim entail as a public and biographical
      >> fact? And how does one claim to be the Son of Man of Daniel without
      >> claiming that one is God's elect and the true representative/embodiment
      >> of Israel -- which, at least to my eyes, is what the role of Messiah
      >> involves?
      >> Jeffrey
      >> --
      >> Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
      >> 1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
      >> Chicago, Illinois
      >> e-mail jgibson000@...
      > Hi Jeffret:
      > Somehow and somewhere the בר אנשׁ and the משׁיחא became conflated. The
      > role of the Messiah in a Jewish context appears to be ambiguous but
      > redefined by Christians. In one Jewish definition (Maimonides), "And if a
      > king shall arise from among the House of David, studying Torah and occupied
      > with commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral
      > Torah, and he will impel all of Israel to follow it and to strengthen
      > breaches in its observance, and will fight Hashem's [God's] wars, this one
      > is to be treated as if he were the anointed one.
      > Messiahs (anointed ones) had always been priests or kings, like David, a
      > warrior king who would overthrow the oppressors and rule over the re-united
      > tribes of Israel. The hope for a Messiah, a Pharisaic concept, must have
      > been at a fever pitch in the last two centuries BCE (134-63 BCE when a new
      > generation of Essenes emerge at the time of Hyrcanus and Alexander Jannaeus
      > and persecuted Pharisees come into the group. This is when the 4QTestimonia
      > was written and the Manual of Discipline expanded. Suddenly we have full
      > blown messianism which includes the advent of a PROPHET and the priestly
      > (Aaronic) and royal (Davidic) messiahs (1QS 9-11). This is also the time
      > when the basic foundations of the T12P (Testimonies of the 12
      > Patriarchs)...previous thought to be of later Christian composition..was
      > laid with its priestly and royal messiahs. T12P was a pharisaic work.
      > During the Roman Period (63-37 BCE) the Damascus Document (CD), the oldest
      > copy of which (4QDb) of 75-50 BCE now conjoins the two messiahs into ONE,
      > the Messiah of Aaron and Israel (CD19:10-11; 20:1; 12:23; 14:19).
      > In spite of 1 Enoch chapter 48 which is late Ethiopian, I do not think, as
      > some do, that they were the same or that it was Jesus who conflated the two.
      > If Jesus was, as I suspect, an Enochian Jew I think he saw them as
      > seaparate. Of course the ongoing contention and debate over the two will
      > probably never be settled and we all have to take a side, right?
      I am afraid that this does not answer my question. What would someone
      being the Davidic Son of man entail? How would this identity manifest
      itself in the villages and by ways of Palestine. How specifically was
      one to act if one were to claim this role as one's own? What specific
      action script would one who was Son of Man think he needed to follow?


      Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
      1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
      Chicago, Illinois
      e-mail jgibson000@...
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