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1874Re: [John_Lit] Beloved Disciple passages in ms Pepys

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  • Horace Jeffery Hodges
    Aug 2 11:09 PM
      Yuri Kuchinsky <yuku@...> wrote:

      > I guess I should not have stated so categorically
      > that in Pepys the porter is male, because the text
      > does allow the possibility that the porter is
      > female. But since, unlike in the canonical version,
      > the gender is not specified, it may be assumed that
      > the porter was meant to be male.

      I suppose that one could assume this as the case in
      most texts, but I think that one would have to be
      careful about building an argument on it.

      > This principle of textual criticism is known as
      > "lectio difficilior potior", meaning roughly "The
      > more difficult reading is preferable". But
      > this is usually taken to apply to cases of textual
      > corruption because of careless copying, because
      > scribes tend to replace odd words with ordinary
      > ones. In this case, though, this can hardly be
      > relevant.

      Whether this principle is "usually taken" as you
      state, I do not know (lacking statistics), but you may
      be correct.

      However, I do know that the principle is used for the
      case that I proposed. Readings that are theologically
      difficult (or difficult for other reasons) are
      sometimes subject to later editing to bring them more
      into line with expectations.

      > Are you suggesting that the scribes of all five mss
      > in question have done the same thing independently
      > purely by accident?

      Easier readings do not arise only by accident. Some
      are intentional.

      Also, would these texts all have been independent of
      one another? Just curious.

      > Again, like in the previous case, your suggestion
      > does not seem very relevant. This is not how "lectio
      > difficilior potior" principle is normally applied in
      > textual criticism.

      Whether "normally" or not, it is thus applied.

      > > Also, I suspect -- but others on this listserve
      > > would need to give their more expert opinions --
      > > that if the evangelist had meant "believed that
      > the body had been taken away", then he would have
      > > used a verb other than "pisteuo" (possibly
      > > "dokeo", as in John 5:45; 11:13, 31).
      > Just like you, I'm not sure about this.

      Then, we have to hope that others will weigh in on
      this and let us know for certain.

      > > Also -- as I mentioned previously -- the fact that
      > > the Pepys manuscript refers to Peter and the
      > > beloved disciple as "Saint" Peter and "Saint" John
      > > suggests that it has undergone ecclesiastical (or
      > > at least "pious") editing.
      > This has already been addressed previously.

      Yuri, are you sure that you posted this reply? I
      looked carefully in your posts for a response but
      found none. Either I missed it (somehow), or the post
      didn't appear (at least, not on my server).

      Anyway, what was your answer?

      > Also, I take it that you're persuaded by the third
      > case that I cited, the Toscan DT parallel. Perhaps
      > because lectio difficilior rule would support
      > the primitivity of Pepys in this case?

      Sorry, I don't recall your argument on this point. I
      responded to what appeared to me to be possible
      difficulties with some of your arguments. Absence of a
      response to other points doesn't necessarily mean that
      I either agree or disagree with those points. More
      likely, it means that I was pressed for time (which I

      Best Regards,

      Jeffery Hodges

      Assistant Professor Horace Jeffery Hodges
      Hanshin University (Korean Theological University)
      447-791 Kyunggido Osan-City
      Yangsandong 411
      South Korea

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