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Re: Hope this doesn't upset anyone

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  • abell07030
    a) Why would the post upset anyone? Frankly, if someone wants to talk about plain old non-Jewish genealogy here, it s not as if you re crowding out other
    Message 1 of 465 , Oct 4, 2001
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      a) Why would the post upset anyone? Frankly, if
      someone wants to talk about plain old non-Jewish
      genealogy here, it's not as if you're crowding out other
      posts. :-)<br><br>b) It's often hard to classify
      surnames are purely Jewish or purely non-Jewish, because
      the same name could have two separate origins, or
      Jews and non-Jews could have gotten the same surname
      for the same reason (having the same type of
      job).<br><br>I haven't seen any written discussions of this, but
      it seems as if freed non-Jewish serfs occasionally
      got their surnames from their former masters. Maybe
      Jews associated with big estates also took surnames
      from the nobility.<br><br>c) It sounds as if
      Bieberstein could originally have been Bieber. There's a
      great Bieber site
      here:<br><a href=http://home.att.net/~long.hair/bieber/ target=new>http://home.att.net/~long.hair/bieber/</a><br><br>Bieber seems to mean "beaver," which is a non-kosher
      animal, but maybe it's really a version of some other
      name that was tough on people who had problems
      pronouncing W's and V's.<br><br>The Bieber family described
      in the Bieber site came from Alsace-Lorraine, which
      was famous for having an ancient Jewish community,
      but it looks from the given names as if the creator
      of the site comes from a family that was never
      Jewish, or has been non-Jewish for a long time.<br><br>A
      site at
      <a href=http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~habsweb/sourcetexts/hwsaeh.htm target=new>http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~habsweb/sourcetexts/hwsaeh.htm</a><br>describes a Baron Marschall von Bieberstein who was a
      nobleman in Germany in 1907. It sounds as if he was almost
      certainly non-Jewish.<br><br>A site at
      <br><a href=http://fmv.vse.cz/cz/castles/frydlant.htm target=new>http://fmv.vse.cz/cz/castles/frydlant.htm</a><br>describes a Bieberstein castle in Frydlant (Friedland), a
      portion of Bohemia (modern Czechoslovakia) juts up into
      Poland, fairly close to Leipzig (a medieval trade fair
      city) and Kracow. This Bieberstein family sounds
      non-Jewish, but I guess it's always possible it could have
      had Jewish roots of some kind.<br><br>On the other
      hand, there definitely seem to have been some Jewish
      Biebersteins. Example: at one point, the chairman of the
      Judenrat of Krakow, the committee that helped the Nazis
      control the Jews, was named Dr. Marek
      Bieberstein.<br><br>A site that's been deleted but is still cached on
      Google, at
      <a href=http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:4hLnAFiFN9o:www3.sympatico.ca/andrews1/righteous/lv.htm+bieberstein+jewish&hl=en target=new>http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:4hLnAFiFN9o:www3.sympatico.ca/andrews1/righ
      teous/lv.htm+bieberstein+jewish&hl=en</a><br>refers to a Jewish man named Szymon Z. Bieberstein who
      says a non-Jewish Polish doctor helped his family
      during World War II.<br><br>The JewishGen Family Finder
      lists a bunch of people who are looking for descendants
      of Jewish Biebersteins from Poland.<br><br>So, my
      guess is that these Jewish Biebersteins were named
      after the Biebersteins who had the castle in Frylant,
      or some other noble Biebersteins who had a castle
      somewhere else around there. The families might be
      completely separate families, except for occasionally cases
      of hanky-panky.<br><br>One thing is to look hard
      about what you know about your family. Example: first
      names have a tendency to carry through families. Are
      your first names similar to those of other Jewish
      Bieberstein families' first names, or clearly different?
      <br><br>Does your family have any secular Jewish customs, such
      as naming children after their grandparents or
      non-living relatives?<br><br>You could also try sending a
      cheek cell swab to Family Tree DNA with samples from
      other Biebersteins and see if you have the Y chromosome
      or different Y chromosomes. (Obviously, this will
      work best if you're a guy!!!)
    • Alexandra
      I am looking for the surnames ZILBERMAN, KARP and EPSTEIN of Yarburg, Lithuania and JUDKOWSKY of Serednik, Lithuania. Alexandra
      Message 465 of 465 , Sep 13, 2003
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        I am looking for the surnames ZILBERMAN, KARP and EPSTEIN of
        Yarburg, Lithuania and JUDKOWSKY of Serednik, Lithuania.

        Alexandra

        --- In jewishgenealogy2000@yahoogroups.com, jeffreyrstern wrote:
        > I have just begun to research my European roots.
        > Have learned that my maternal grandfather was from
        > Yurburg, Lithuania. The family name was eithrn Arnstein or
        > Arshtein. Looking for any possible relatives....
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