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Re: 1874 vs 1914

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  • Jim
    Bumping this up
    Message 1 of 41 , Apr 27, 2009
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      Bumping this up
      --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <gospel_driven_man@...> wrote:
      > Here is a compilation of comments from various publications from the
      > Society regarding the invisible return of jesus Christ and when this
      > event supposedly happened. I have added my thoughts/comments and
      > questions as they popped up and I realize they may seem like
      > rambling, for that I apologize.
      > "In 1943 the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society published the
      > book "The Truth Shall make You Free." In its chapter 11,
      > entitled "The Count of Time," it did away with the insertion of 100
      > years into the period of the Judges and went according to the oldest
      > and most authentic reading of Acts 13:20, and accepted the spelled-
      > out numbers of the Hebrew Scriptures. This moved forward the end of
      > the six thousand years of man's existence into the decade of the
      > 1970's. Naturally this did away with the year 1874 C.E. as the date
      > of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginning of his
      > invisible presence or parusia." Footnote at the bottom of page 133 of
      > the Proclaimers book
      > "So when Christ's invisible presence began in 1914, happy were these
      > Christians to have been found watching!" (WT 12-1-84 p.14)
      > What were they watching for? In 1914, if I understand the proclaimers
      > book, they believed that it was 1874 when Christ's invisible presence
      > began.
      > Since the Proclaimers book informs us that in the above quote of the
      > change in doctrine regarding the invisible presence of Jesus Christ,
      > what does it make of quotes in WTBTS publications that indicate they
      > were looking forward to Christ's invisible presence prior to 1914 and
      > comments that say they believed such prior to 1943?
      > Let's look at a few quotes and see if they agree with the above quote
      > from the Proclaimers book.
      > "Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of
      > this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-
      > wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since
      > long before World War 1 Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the
      > time for this great event to occur. (Watchtower June 15, 1954 p.370
      > paragraph 4)
      > So, prior to 1914 they pointed to 1914 as the time for Christ's
      > return and second presence, though they didn't change their belief
      > that this event happened in 1874 until the year 1943. Why am I seeing
      > a problem here? What am I not understanding?
      > To add to the problem, let's look at a quote from the book Prophecy
      > written by the 2nd President of the WTBTS J.F. Rutherford and
      > published in 1929.
      > "The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus
      > Christ began in 1874 A.D. This proof is specifically set out in the
      > booklet entitled Our Lord's Return. " (Prophecy 1929 p.65-66)
      > Again I ask, what was being watched for in 1914? I also ask, how do
      > you reconcile the obvious disagreement between the June 15, 1954
      > Watchtower and the Book Prophecy? Since the official teaching was
      > that the invisible return of Christ happened in 1874, why did the
      > writers and publishers of the 1954 Watchtower not correct this
      > obvious error? Why the dishonesty about their history?
      > Let's look at another two quotes and see what we find.
      > "After the war ended in 1918, there was no work available in England,
      > so I rejoined the army and went off to India as part of the peacetime
      > garrison. In May 1920 the malaria flared up again, and I was sent up
      > into the hills to recuperate. There I read all the books I could get
      > my hands on, including the Bible. Reading the Scriptures intensified
      > my interest in the Lord's return.
      > Months later, down in Kanpur, I started a Bible study group, hoping
      > to learn more about the Lord's return. It was there that I met
      > Fredrick James, a former British soldier who was now a zealous Bible
      > student. He explained to me that Jesus had been present since 1914,
      > invisible to man. This was the most thrilling news I had ever heard."
      > (Watchtower September 1, 1990 p.11)
      > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above
      > stated." (The Harp of God 1921 p.231)
      > So even though in 1921 it was taught and believed that Jesus had been
      > present since 1874, we have Jack Nathan testifying he was told in
      > what was most likely late 1920 that Jesus had been present since
      > 1914. Something just is not adding up here.
      > To make matters even worse in the March 15, 1990 issue of the
      > Watchtower in the article `The Faithful Slave' And It's Governing
      > Body. Check this out:
      > "On arriving to inspect his slaves in 1918, whom did the Master,
      > Jesus Christ, find giving to his body of attendants their measure of
      > food supplies at the proper time? Well, by then, who had given
      > sincere truth-seekers the correct understanding of the ransom
      > sacrifice, the divine name, the invisibility of Christ's presence,
      > and the significance of 1914?" (Watchtower March 15, 1990 p.13)
      > Again, we see from the above evidence, in 1918 it was taught in
      > Watchtower publications that the invisibility of Christ's presence,
      > was in 1874, so who was giving the correct understanding in 1918?
      > My big question though, is, why the seeming, though maybe not
      > deliberate, dishonesty from the WTBTS about their own history?
    • alanna garth
      baseless speculation.  And what were they preaching??  False prophecies....another gospel.  Both points disqulaify them from anything. ... From: Steve
      Message 41 of 41 , Apr 30, 2009
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        baseless speculation.  And what were they preaching??  False prophecies....another gospel.  Both points disqulaify them from anything.

        --- On Thu, 4/30/09, Steve Klemetti <sklemetti@...> wrote:

        From: Steve Klemetti <sklemetti@...>
        Subject: Re: [Jehovah's Witnesses Gathering] Re: 1874 vs 1914
        To: jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 9:23 AM

        donn reese wrote:
        > Alanna,
        > That really is the crux of the issue. The Bible Students are an entirely different religion than the Witnesses. Dispensationalist vs Hybrid New Covenantalist.
        > It would be like saying- God approved the Pentecostal religion in 1918 therefore the Presbyterians are the true religion????
        > If someone can make sense of that claim I'll eat my straw hat
        > Regards
        > Donn
        It is because in 1919 the Bible students started doing something with
        the faith as in preaching it.

        No other religion as even taken the Christian faith seriously.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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