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Re: Truth or Fables?

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  • Jim
    Since the WTBTS today disagree s with you Steve, care to tell us what religion you actually do belong to? In the WTBTS book titled God s Kingdom Has
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 6, 2007
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      Since the WTBTS today disagree's with you Steve, care to tell us what
      religion you actually do belong to?

      In the WTBTS book titled "God's Kingdom Has Approached" published in
      1973 it tells us on pages 209-210 that in the year 1943 the change
      was made from dating the invisible presence of Jesus Christ from 1874
      to 1914. These pages also make reference to the book published in
      1943 "The Truth Shall Make You Free" and says that on page 324 of
      that book "The King's presence or parousia began in 1914."


      --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Klemetti"
      <sklemetti@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
      > <gospel_driven_man@> wrote:
      > >
      >
      >
      > > Let's see, in 1918 Jesus came, inspected religious groups and
      found
      > > the one that was giving sincere truth seekers the truth about the
      > > invisibility of Christ's presence according to our first quote
      from
      > > the March 15, 1990 Watchtower. What's interesting is that in 1918
      > > the official teaching by the organization being run by J. F.
      > > Rutherford was that the invisibility of Christ's presence began,
      NOT
      > > in 1914 as is taught today, but in 1874!!!!!
      >
      > The problem is that you are comparing different eras and what was
      > written was from different eras.
      >
      > The 1874 was and is true that Jesus did have an invisible presence.
      >
      > What you lack understanding is that 1914 is not Just about Jesus'
      > presence, but his enthronement as king at the end of the gentile
      times.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > I have before me a copy of the book "The Harp of God" written by
      > > J.F. Rutherford and with a copyright of 1921. On page 230 of this
      > > book it says:
      > >
      > > "This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the
      time
      > > when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same
      > > rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings
      us
      > > to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to Biblical chronology,
      the
      > > Lord's second presence is due."
      > >
      > > On page 231:
      > >
      > > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above
      > > stated."
      >
      > Yes, the Lord did start his second presence then as he then started
      to
      > examine the ones professing to serve him at that time. But that is
      nto
      > the same as his presence in 1914.
      >
      >
      >
      > led Our Lord's Return.
      > >
      > > So, if in 1918 the group giving sincere seekers the correct
      > > understanding about the invisibility of Christ's presence
      beginning
      > > in 1874 was the organization led by J.F. Rutherford, what does
      that
      > > tell us of the group today known as the Watchtower Bible and
      Tract
      > > Society, or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness and their
      > > belief that the invisibility of Christ's presence began in 1914?
      >
      > He became king in 1914 at the fulfillment of the Gentile times.
      That
      > has nothing to do with 1874. 1874 was his presence whereas prior to
      > that he was not doing anything. Since 1874 Biblical teaching
      started
      > as there was none before then.
      >
    • Jim
      Are you still with us Steve? ... what ... in ... 1874 ... the ... 1918 ... began, ... presence. ... by ... this ... brings ... above ... started ... is ...
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 21, 2007
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        Are you still with us Steve?


        --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
        <warrior_of_the_sword@...> wrote:
        >
        > Since the WTBTS today disagree's with you Steve, care to tell us
        what
        > religion you actually do belong to?
        >
        > In the WTBTS book titled "God's Kingdom Has Approached" published
        in
        > 1973 it tells us on pages 209-210 that in the year 1943 the change
        > was made from dating the invisible presence of Jesus Christ from
        1874
        > to 1914. These pages also make reference to the book published in
        > 1943 "The Truth Shall Make You Free" and says that on page 324 of
        > that book "The King's presence or parousia began in 1914."
        >
        >
        > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Klemetti"
        > <sklemetti@> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
        > > <gospel_driven_man@> wrote:
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > > > Let's see, in 1918 Jesus came, inspected religious groups and
        > found
        > > > the one that was giving sincere truth seekers the truth about
        the
        > > > invisibility of Christ's presence according to our first quote
        > from
        > > > the March 15, 1990 Watchtower. What's interesting is that in
        1918
        > > > the official teaching by the organization being run by J. F.
        > > > Rutherford was that the invisibility of Christ's presence
        began,
        > NOT
        > > > in 1914 as is taught today, but in 1874!!!!!
        > >
        > > The problem is that you are comparing different eras and what was
        > > written was from different eras.
        > >
        > > The 1874 was and is true that Jesus did have an invisible
        presence.
        > >
        > > What you lack understanding is that 1914 is not Just about Jesus'
        > > presence, but his enthronement as king at the end of the gentile
        > times.
        > >
        > >
        > > >
        > > > I have before me a copy of the book "The Harp of God" written
        by
        > > > J.F. Rutherford and with a copyright of 1921. On page 230 of
        this
        > > > book it says:
        > > >
        > > > "This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the
        > time
        > > > when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same
        > > > rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D.
        brings
        > us
        > > > to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to Biblical chronology,
        > the
        > > > Lord's second presence is due."
        > > >
        > > > On page 231:
        > > >
        > > > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as
        above
        > > > stated."
        > >
        > > Yes, the Lord did start his second presence then as he then
        started
        > to
        > > examine the ones professing to serve him at that time. But that
        is
        > nto
        > > the same as his presence in 1914.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > led Our Lord's Return.
        > > >
        > > > So, if in 1918 the group giving sincere seekers the correct
        > > > understanding about the invisibility of Christ's presence
        > beginning
        > > > in 1874 was the organization led by J.F. Rutherford, what does
        > that
        > > > tell us of the group today known as the Watchtower Bible and
        > Tract
        > > > Society, or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness and
        their
        > > > belief that the invisibility of Christ's presence began in 1914?
        > >
        > > He became king in 1914 at the fulfillment of the Gentile times.
        > That
        > > has nothing to do with 1874. 1874 was his presence whereas prior
        to
        > > that he was not doing anything. Since 1874 Biblical teaching
        > started
        > > as there was none before then.
        > >
        >
      • Jim
        Was the question that difficult Steve? ... change ... Klemetti ... quote ... was ... Jesus ... gentile ... the ... same ... chronology, ... does ... 1914?
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 5, 2007
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          Was the question that difficult Steve?


          --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
          <warrior_of_the_sword@...> wrote:
          >
          > Are you still with us Steve?
          >
          >
          > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
          > <warrior_of_the_sword@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Since the WTBTS today disagree's with you Steve, care to tell us
          > what
          > > religion you actually do belong to?
          > >
          > > In the WTBTS book titled "God's Kingdom Has Approached" published
          > in
          > > 1973 it tells us on pages 209-210 that in the year 1943 the
          change
          > > was made from dating the invisible presence of Jesus Christ from
          > 1874
          > > to 1914. These pages also make reference to the book published in
          > > 1943 "The Truth Shall Make You Free" and says that on page 324 of
          > > that book "The King's presence or parousia began in 1914."
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Steve
          Klemetti"
          > > <sklemetti@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
          > > > <gospel_driven_man@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > > Let's see, in 1918 Jesus came, inspected religious groups and
          > > found
          > > > > the one that was giving sincere truth seekers the truth about
          > the
          > > > > invisibility of Christ's presence according to our first
          quote
          > > from
          > > > > the March 15, 1990 Watchtower. What's interesting is that in
          > 1918
          > > > > the official teaching by the organization being run by J. F.
          > > > > Rutherford was that the invisibility of Christ's presence
          > began,
          > > NOT
          > > > > in 1914 as is taught today, but in 1874!!!!!
          > > >
          > > > The problem is that you are comparing different eras and what
          was
          > > > written was from different eras.
          > > >
          > > > The 1874 was and is true that Jesus did have an invisible
          > presence.
          > > >
          > > > What you lack understanding is that 1914 is not Just about
          Jesus'
          > > > presence, but his enthronement as king at the end of the
          gentile
          > > times.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > I have before me a copy of the book "The Harp of God" written
          > by
          > > > > J.F. Rutherford and with a copyright of 1921. On page 230 of
          > this
          > > > > book it says:
          > > > >
          > > > > "This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix
          the
          > > time
          > > > > when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the
          same
          > > > > rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D.
          > brings
          > > us
          > > > > to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to Biblical
          chronology,
          > > the
          > > > > Lord's second presence is due."
          > > > >
          > > > > On page 231:
          > > > >
          > > > > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as
          > above
          > > > > stated."
          > > >
          > > > Yes, the Lord did start his second presence then as he then
          > started
          > > to
          > > > examine the ones professing to serve him at that time. But that
          > is
          > > nto
          > > > the same as his presence in 1914.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > led Our Lord's Return.
          > > > >
          > > > > So, if in 1918 the group giving sincere seekers the correct
          > > > > understanding about the invisibility of Christ's presence
          > > beginning
          > > > > in 1874 was the organization led by J.F. Rutherford, what
          does
          > > that
          > > > > tell us of the group today known as the Watchtower Bible and
          > > Tract
          > > > > Society, or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness and
          > their
          > > > > belief that the invisibility of Christ's presence began in
          1914?
          > > >
          > > > He became king in 1914 at the fulfillment of the Gentile
          times.
          > > That
          > > > has nothing to do with 1874. 1874 was his presence whereas
          prior
          > to
          > > > that he was not doing anything. Since 1874 Biblical teaching
          > > started
          > > > as there was none before then.
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Teresa
          I can t believe you guys debating about Jesus return. Doesn t the Bible teach that you are not privileged to that information? Furthermore, the whole world
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 20, 2007
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            I can't believe you guys debating about Jesus' return.

            Doesn't the Bible teach that you are not privileged to that
            information? Furthermore, the whole world will see His presence.

            Teresa

            -- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Klemetti"
            <sklemetti@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
            > <gospel_driven_man@> wrote:
            > >
            >
            >
            > > Let's see, in 1918 Jesus came, inspected religious groups and found
            > > the one that was giving sincere truth seekers the truth about the
            > > invisibility of Christ's presence according to our first quote from
            > > the March 15, 1990 Watchtower. What's interesting is that in 1918
            > > the official teaching by the organization being run by J. F.
            > > Rutherford was that the invisibility of Christ's presence began, NOT
            > > in 1914 as is taught today, but in 1874!!!!!
            >
            > The problem is that you are comparing different eras and what was
            > written was from different eras.
            >
            > The 1874 was and is true that Jesus did have an invisible presence.
            >
            > What you lack understanding is that 1914 is not Just about Jesus'
            > presence, but his enthronement as king at the end of the gentile times.
            >
            >
            > >
            > > I have before me a copy of the book "The Harp of God" written by
            > > J.F. Rutherford and with a copyright of 1921. On page 230 of this
            > > book it says:
            > >
            > > "This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the time
            > > when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same
            > > rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D. brings us
            > > to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to Biblical chronology, the
            > > Lord's second presence is due."
            > >
            > > On page 231:
            > >
            > > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as above
            > > stated."
            >
            > Yes, the Lord did start his second presence then as he then started to
            > examine the ones professing to serve him at that time. But that is nto
            > the same as his presence in 1914.
            >
            >
            >
            > led Our Lord's Return.
            > >
            > > So, if in 1918 the group giving sincere seekers the correct
            > > understanding about the invisibility of Christ's presence beginning
            > > in 1874 was the organization led by J.F. Rutherford, what does that
            > > tell us of the group today known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract
            > > Society, or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness and their
            > > belief that the invisibility of Christ's presence began in 1914?
            >
            > He became king in 1914 at the fulfillment of the Gentile times. That
            > has nothing to do with 1874. 1874 was his presence whereas prior to
            > that he was not doing anything. Since 1874 Biblical teaching started
            > as there was none before then.
            >
          • Jim
            I do believe that he Bible does inform of us to the various signs of his return, which will be seen by every eye as the Bible does indeed state. ... found ...
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 26, 2007
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              I do believe that he Bible does inform of us to the various signs of
              his return, which will be seen by every eye as the Bible does indeed
              state.

              --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa"
              <eternity39us@...> wrote:
              >
              > I can't believe you guys debating about Jesus' return.
              >
              > Doesn't the Bible teach that you are not privileged to that
              > information? Furthermore, the whole world will see His presence.
              >
              > Teresa
              >
              > -- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Klemetti"
              > <sklemetti@> wrote:
              > >
              > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
              > > <gospel_driven_man@> wrote:
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > > > Let's see, in 1918 Jesus came, inspected religious groups and
              found
              > > > the one that was giving sincere truth seekers the truth about
              the
              > > > invisibility of Christ's presence according to our first quote
              from
              > > > the March 15, 1990 Watchtower. What's interesting is that in
              1918
              > > > the official teaching by the organization being run by J. F.
              > > > Rutherford was that the invisibility of Christ's presence
              began, NOT
              > > > in 1914 as is taught today, but in 1874!!!!!
              > >
              > > The problem is that you are comparing different eras and what was
              > > written was from different eras.
              > >
              > > The 1874 was and is true that Jesus did have an invisible
              presence.
              > >
              > > What you lack understanding is that 1914 is not Just about Jesus'
              > > presence, but his enthronement as king at the end of the gentile
              times.
              > >
              > >
              > > >
              > > > I have before me a copy of the book "The Harp of God" written
              by
              > > > J.F. Rutherford and with a copyright of 1921. On page 230 of
              this
              > > > book it says:
              > > >
              > > > "This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the
              time
              > > > when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same
              > > > rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D.
              brings us
              > > > to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to Biblical chronology,
              the
              > > > Lord's second presence is due."
              > > >
              > > > On page 231:
              > > >
              > > > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as
              above
              > > > stated."
              > >
              > > Yes, the Lord did start his second presence then as he then
              started to
              > > examine the ones professing to serve him at that time. But that
              is nto
              > > the same as his presence in 1914.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > led Our Lord's Return.
              > > >
              > > > So, if in 1918 the group giving sincere seekers the correct
              > > > understanding about the invisibility of Christ's presence
              beginning
              > > > in 1874 was the organization led by J.F. Rutherford, what does
              that
              > > > tell us of the group today known as the Watchtower Bible and
              Tract
              > > > Society, or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness and
              their
              > > > belief that the invisibility of Christ's presence began in 1914?
              > >
              > > He became king in 1914 at the fulfillment of the Gentile times.
              That
              > > has nothing to do with 1874. 1874 was his presence whereas prior
              to
              > > that he was not doing anything. Since 1874 Biblical teaching
              started
              > > as there was none before then.
              > >
              >
            • Teresa
              Yes, the Bible does inform us of the signs of Jesus coming. For instance in Matthew 24. No one knows exactly the precise time for Jesus return. I do
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 31, 2007
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                Yes, the Bible does inform us of the signs of Jesus' coming. For
                instance in Matthew 24. No one knows exactly the precise time for
                Jesus' return.

                I do believe thou that Jesus' return will be fulfilled in this
                generation. Why because rulers, kingdoms, and regimes are being
                destroyed; along with the other signs we see in the world today that
                Matthew 24 speaks of.

                Teresa



                --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
                <warrior_of_the_sword@...> wrote:
                >
                > I do believe that he Bible does inform of us to the various signs of
                > his return, which will be seen by every eye as the Bible does indeed
                > state.
                >
                > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Teresa"
                > <eternity39us@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I can't believe you guys debating about Jesus' return.
                > >
                > > Doesn't the Bible teach that you are not privileged to that
                > > information? Furthermore, the whole world will see His presence.
                > >
                > > Teresa
                > >
                > > -- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Klemetti"
                > > <sklemetti@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Jim"
                > > > <gospel_driven_man@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > > Let's see, in 1918 Jesus came, inspected religious groups and
                > found
                > > > > the one that was giving sincere truth seekers the truth about
                > the
                > > > > invisibility of Christ's presence according to our first quote
                > from
                > > > > the March 15, 1990 Watchtower. What's interesting is that in
                > 1918
                > > > > the official teaching by the organization being run by J. F.
                > > > > Rutherford was that the invisibility of Christ's presence
                > began, NOT
                > > > > in 1914 as is taught today, but in 1874!!!!!
                > > >
                > > > The problem is that you are comparing different eras and what was
                > > > written was from different eras.
                > > >
                > > > The 1874 was and is true that Jesus did have an invisible
                > presence.
                > > >
                > > > What you lack understanding is that 1914 is not Just about Jesus'
                > > > presence, but his enthronement as king at the end of the gentile
                > times.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > I have before me a copy of the book "The Harp of God" written
                > by
                > > > > J.F. Rutherford and with a copyright of 1921. On page 230 of
                > this
                > > > > book it says:
                > > > >
                > > > > "This date, therefore, when understood, would certainly fix the
                > time
                > > > > when the Lord is due at his second appearing. Applying the same
                > > > > rule, then, of a day for a year, 1335 days after 539 A.D.
                > brings us
                > > > > to 1874 A.D., at which time, according to Biblical chronology,
                > the
                > > > > Lord's second presence is due."
                > > > >
                > > > > On page 231:
                > > > >
                > > > > "The time of the Lord's second presence dates from 1874, as
                > above
                > > > > stated."
                > > >
                > > > Yes, the Lord did start his second presence then as he then
                > started to
                > > > examine the ones professing to serve him at that time. But that
                > is nto
                > > > the same as his presence in 1914.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > led Our Lord's Return.
                > > > >
                > > > > So, if in 1918 the group giving sincere seekers the correct
                > > > > understanding about the invisibility of Christ's presence
                > beginning
                > > > > in 1874 was the organization led by J.F. Rutherford, what does
                > that
                > > > > tell us of the group today known as the Watchtower Bible and
                > Tract
                > > > > Society, or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witness and
                > their
                > > > > belief that the invisibility of Christ's presence began in 1914?
                > > >
                > > > He became king in 1914 at the fulfillment of the Gentile times.
                > That
                > > > has nothing to do with 1874. 1874 was his presence whereas prior
                > to
                > > > that he was not doing anything. Since 1874 Biblical teaching
                > started
                > > > as there was none before then.
                > > >
                > >
                >
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