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  • Ron Owens
    ... You attacked Bill Bowen and the Silent Lambs organization. You attack the the Catholics and the SBC. My goal is to expose the Watchtower Organization for
    Message 1 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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      ---Rob,
      You attacked Bill Bowen and the Silent Lambs organization.
      You attack the the Catholics and the SBC. My goal is to expose the
      Watchtower Organization for what they are. If you have an agenda
      against the SBC or the Catholics wage your little war.
      The one thing you have failed to do is prove that what I have posted
      is wrong. And your intense anger when it is posted only furthers the
      proof at how mind controlling the JW's are, because they certainly
      have you lock stock and barrell.
      Well if iot bothers you so that child abuse is everywhere - do
      something about it. See the problem that has been exposed with the
      JW's is first of all they deny that there is a problem or that they
      have handled it wrong and continue to handle it wrong.
      You say you don't judge, and yet you judged Bill Bowen without even
      knowing much about him, you attacked the Silent Lambs organization
      without providing any evidence or proof. Then you come on the group
      and try to sugar coat what you previously said. The fact is you have
      been exposed as true cult member and your anger makes it obvious.
      You may claim that you are not a JW, and that may be so as you may
      not be a baptized member, but they certainly have your backing 100%.
      If what the Silent Lambs are saying is wrong- prove it. Don't just
      make attacks, as that is really a small minded thing to do. And
      telling me if I wish to attack the individuals who committed the
      crimes, please the proof is the Watchtower has covered up this
      scandal and has even knowingly allowed pedophiles to go door to door
      and to even hold positions in the cong. They even have
      disfellowshipped victims for speaking up, disfellowshipped Bill
      Bowen a Presiding Overseer for speaking up on behalf of victims.
      The Watchtower Society is as guilty as the perpatrators of the
      crimes, and those who continue to support and stand behind the
      Watchtower on this issue are also just as guilty. Wake up and smell
      the coffee Rob, the organization that you give all your devotion to
      is a dangerous and false christian organization and that knowledge
      is what angers you so much.
      Ron
      In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"
      <rob95425@y...> wrote:
      > I guess you really didn't visit those sites i posted about sex-
      abuse
      > problems in ALL religions. You ignore what you wish, and continue
      to
      > bash. Instead of exposing and dealing with the problem of abuse in
      > ALL churches your use the terrible suffering of children to futher
      > your goal of wiping out JW's, and only JW's. Not once have i said
      the
      > children were making false accusations. Im not a judge, or jury,
      and
      > i wasnt there. My point is that sexual abuse against children is
      > EVERYWHERE. Not just in the WTBS. To attack one whole group like
      you
      > do, based on the misconduct of some is inappropriate. If you wish
      to
      > attack they individuals who committed the crime that is fine with
      me.
      > You find the tree and ill bring the rope. It makes no difference
      > whether they are JW's, Catholic, or Hindu. But i will not judge
      the
      > whole group, and their beliefs based on what some of their members
      > have done whether they are JW's, Catholics, or Hindu. Unlike many
      in
      > the group i do not have a bias, or hidden agenda.
      > -Rob
      >
      >
      > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Owens"
      > <rondoggy2000@y...> wrote:
      > > Rob,
      > >
      > > If you have information that the SBC ( or anyone) is protecting
      > > child molestors and have not reported it to the authorities or
      at
      > > least expose them to media for others to know-
      > > Shame on you. Otherwise don't make accusations you can not back
      up.
      > > I wonder if you have any moral integrity at all or has the
      > > Watchtower stolen that along with your brains? Are you that
      stupid
      > > that you would back an organization even if it has such a
      > background
      > > and continues in its wrong course with even so much as an
      apology
      > to
      > > the victims? You certainly are a BIG LO-O-O-O-OSER!!!!!!!!
      > > Thanks for exposing who you really are to all of these people on
      > > this group and to the victims. Perhaps God will someday forgive
      you.
      > > Ron
    • Mark
      Robert, I think the really telling part is that they ran this story during May sweeps week. Dirty laundry always attraches attention. I also find it
      Message 2 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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        Robert, I think the really telling part is that they ran this
        story during May sweeps week. Dirty laundry always attraches
        attention.
        I also find it interesting that when someone can show a direct
        challenge on this then the "you know you should not be here talking
        to disfellowshiped/disassociated ones" posts type of thing comes out.
        And yet they claim that they want to have free and open discussions
        with others, go figure.
        Would you please repost the sites you mentioned earlier, Robert ?
        Just because some don't want to see doesn't mean we are all so narrow
        minded
      • Ron Owens
        ... Witnesses nor their supporters have proven that these accusations are false, misleading, or even inaccurate for that matter. Mark, are you up to that
        Message 3 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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          ---What is actually interesting is that none of the Jehovahs
          Witnesses nor their supporters have proven that these accusations
          are false, misleading, or even inaccurate for that matter. Mark, are
          you up to that challenge?
          Why the Watchtower Society claims to be God's clean organization,
          they wouldn't have dirty laundry now would they? You admit then that
          they do have dirty laundry? If not give evidence of such.
          Actually I had just ran across that letter while surfing the net and
          thought I would post it.
          The fact is the Watchtower Society does discourage its people from
          these type of free and open discussions, in order to keep control of
          them. I am glad there are those willing to disobey "God's Direct
          Channell", " God's Clean Organization".
          The ironic thing is that when Jw's get involved in such discussions,
          they can't handle the truth about the Organization they belong to.
          They also feel they are being persecuted.
          Again if you are up to the challenge of proving the Silent Lambs,
          its founder(s) or victims or the media has distorted, misled or
          misrepresented, or lied please provide that evidence or swallow the
          same medicine that the Watchtower has been dosing out about other
          religions of "Christendom".
          Ron

          In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"
          <mudoftyrone@y...> wrote:
          > Robert, I think the really telling part is that they ran this
          > story during May sweeps week. Dirty laundry always attraches
          > attention.
          > I also find it interesting that when someone can show a direct
          > challenge on this then the "you know you should not be here
          talking
          > to disfellowshiped/disassociated ones" posts type of thing comes
          out.
          > And yet they claim that they want to have free and open
          discussions
          > with others, go figure.
          > Would you please repost the sites you mentioned earlier, Robert ?
          > Just because some don't want to see doesn't mean we are all so
          narrow
          > minded
        • Robert
          I read this and just laughed and laughed. You see what you want to see, and are blinded to the rest. -Rob ... posted ... the ... have ... door ... in ...
          Message 4 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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            I read this and just laughed and laughed. You see what you want to
            see, and are blinded to the rest.
            -Rob


            --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Owens"
            <rondoggy2000@y...> wrote:
            > ---Rob,
            > You attacked Bill Bowen and the Silent Lambs organization.
            > You attack the the Catholics and the SBC. My goal is to expose the
            > Watchtower Organization for what they are. If you have an agenda
            > against the SBC or the Catholics wage your little war.
            > The one thing you have failed to do is prove that what I have
            posted
            > is wrong. And your intense anger when it is posted only furthers
            the
            > proof at how mind controlling the JW's are, because they certainly
            > have you lock stock and barrell.
            > Well if iot bothers you so that child abuse is everywhere - do
            > something about it. See the problem that has been exposed with the
            > JW's is first of all they deny that there is a problem or that they
            > have handled it wrong and continue to handle it wrong.
            > You say you don't judge, and yet you judged Bill Bowen without even
            > knowing much about him, you attacked the Silent Lambs organization
            > without providing any evidence or proof. Then you come on the group
            > and try to sugar coat what you previously said. The fact is you
            have
            > been exposed as true cult member and your anger makes it obvious.
            > You may claim that you are not a JW, and that may be so as you may
            > not be a baptized member, but they certainly have your backing 100%.
            > If what the Silent Lambs are saying is wrong- prove it. Don't just
            > make attacks, as that is really a small minded thing to do. And
            > telling me if I wish to attack the individuals who committed the
            > crimes, please the proof is the Watchtower has covered up this
            > scandal and has even knowingly allowed pedophiles to go door to
            door
            > and to even hold positions in the cong. They even have
            > disfellowshipped victims for speaking up, disfellowshipped Bill
            > Bowen a Presiding Overseer for speaking up on behalf of victims.
            > The Watchtower Society is as guilty as the perpatrators of the
            > crimes, and those who continue to support and stand behind the
            > Watchtower on this issue are also just as guilty. Wake up and smell
            > the coffee Rob, the organization that you give all your devotion to
            > is a dangerous and false christian organization and that knowledge
            > is what angers you so much.
            > Ron
            > In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"
            > <rob95425@y...> wrote:
            > > I guess you really didn't visit those sites i posted about sex-
            > abuse
            > > problems in ALL religions. You ignore what you wish, and continue
            > to
            > > bash. Instead of exposing and dealing with the problem of abuse
            in
            > > ALL churches your use the terrible suffering of children to
            futher
            > > your goal of wiping out JW's, and only JW's. Not once have i said
            > the
            > > children were making false accusations. Im not a judge, or jury,
            > and
            > > i wasnt there. My point is that sexual abuse against children is
            > > EVERYWHERE. Not just in the WTBS. To attack one whole group like
            > you
            > > do, based on the misconduct of some is inappropriate. If you wish
            > to
            > > attack they individuals who committed the crime that is fine with
            > me.
            > > You find the tree and ill bring the rope. It makes no difference
            > > whether they are JW's, Catholic, or Hindu. But i will not judge
            > the
            > > whole group, and their beliefs based on what some of their
            members
            > > have done whether they are JW's, Catholics, or Hindu. Unlike many
            > in
            > > the group i do not have a bias, or hidden agenda.
            > > -Rob
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Ron Owens"
            > > <rondoggy2000@y...> wrote:
            > > > Rob,
            > > >
            > > > If you have information that the SBC ( or anyone) is protecting
            > > > child molestors and have not reported it to the authorities or
            > at
            > > > least expose them to media for others to know-
            > > > Shame on you. Otherwise don't make accusations you can not back
            > up.
            > > > I wonder if you have any moral integrity at all or has the
            > > > Watchtower stolen that along with your brains? Are you that
            > stupid
            > > > that you would back an organization even if it has such a
            > > background
            > > > and continues in its wrong course with even so much as an
            > apology
            > > to
            > > > the victims? You certainly are a BIG LO-O-O-O-OSER!!!!!!!!
            > > > Thanks for exposing who you really are to all of these people
            on
            > > > this group and to the victims. Perhaps God will someday forgive
            > you.
            > > > Ron
          • Robert
            The links are in a couple of my past posts, but it would be easier if you just typed church sex abuse into any search engine. Don t bother looking in any of
            Message 5 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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              The links are in a couple of my past posts, but it would be easier if
              you just typed "church sex abuse" into any search engine. Don't
              bother looking in any of the main-stream church websites for
              information on sexual abuse by clergy in those organizations. They
              don't like to advertize.
              -Rob

              --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"
              <mudoftyrone@y...> wrote:
              > Robert, I think the really telling part is that they ran this
              > story during May sweeps week. Dirty laundry always attraches
              > attention.
              > I also find it interesting that when someone can show a direct
              > challenge on this then the "you know you should not be here talking
              > to disfellowshiped/disassociated ones" posts type of thing comes
              out.
              > And yet they claim that they want to have free and open
              discussions
              > with others, go figure.
              > Would you please repost the sites you mentioned earlier, Robert ?
              > Just because some don't want to see doesn't mean we are all so
              narrow
              > minded
            • Mark
              Ron, The fact that child sex abuse happens is not being disputed. However to claim that it is the policy to cover up or try to hide these people is just out
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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                Ron,
                The fact that child sex abuse happens is not being disputed. However
                to claim that it is the policy to cover up or try to hide these
                people is just out and out ridiculous. If the victims in these cases
                were told that they would be disfellowshipped if they went to the
                authorities, then that was mishandled. Mistakes happen, nobody is
                perfect.
                Let me ask you this Ron, if these men would have gone to the
                authorities and reported these happenings, couldn't the accused's
                lawyer claim that these were privleged conversations ? Don't most
                religions view priest/minister - parishioner conversations to be
                privleged ? Most courts of law view them as such. A competent lawyer
                would have it thrown out of court.
                Ron you claim to have been a witness for about thirty years, did you
                have perfect brothers at your hall ? No one made mistakes there ? I
                remember reading your claim that your matter was mishandled by the
                brothers. It would be nice if no one ever made a mistake but that
                just isn't likely is it ? Since you claimed to have been a witness
                you are aware of the scriptual basis for the need of two or more
                witnesses before the brothers can take action.
                I've posted what happened to my nephew already, I'm not going to do
                so again. Bottom line, while no action could be taken by the local
                brothers, they DID TELL my sister in law that she could go to the
                police and report the matter to the authorities.
                As far as dirty laundry, as long as men are imperfect, then things
                are going to occur.
                Another thing to consider here Ron, is that I have not seen where
                they have identified the alleged perpetrator.The misinformation could
                come from the fact that we are only presented with one side of these
                allegations, nowhere is the accused's side presented. To judge a
                matter with only partial information is very dangerous. If you insist
                on doing so you just continue to create more misinformation.
                So Ron, as far as I'm concerned, I've answered your challenge.
                Whether you accept it or not is entirely in your hands.
              • Mark
                Thank you Robert I will do so ... if ... talking ... Robert ?
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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                  Thank you Robert I will do so



                  --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Robert"
                  <rob95425@y...> wrote:
                  > The links are in a couple of my past posts, but it would be easier
                  if
                  > you just typed "church sex abuse" into any search engine. Don't
                  > bother looking in any of the main-stream church websites for
                  > information on sexual abuse by clergy in those organizations. They
                  > don't like to advertize.
                  > -Rob
                  >
                  > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Mark"
                  > <mudoftyrone@y...> wrote:
                  > > Robert, I think the really telling part is that they ran this
                  > > story during May sweeps week. Dirty laundry always attraches
                  > > attention.
                  > > I also find it interesting that when someone can show a direct
                  > > challenge on this then the "you know you should not be here
                  talking
                  > > to disfellowshiped/disassociated ones" posts type of thing comes
                  > out.
                  > > And yet they claim that they want to have free and open
                  > discussions
                  > > with others, go figure.
                  > > Would you please repost the sites you mentioned earlier,
                  Robert ?
                  > > Just because some don't want to see doesn't mean we are all so
                  > narrow
                  > > minded
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