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Re: Thanks Barb

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  • ditchbilly
    I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where not associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear them and ol Barb would back
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
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      I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where not
      associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear them
      and ol' Barb would back me up 110%.Exactly the same way she has done
      with others here.It doesn't shock me to think that she would
      encourage someone to lie.After all she started lying about knowing
      Misty and how she had left Witnesses and had finally seen the truth
      when she first came here.Pretty much set the tone right off the bat
      if you ask me about it.
      Now for all of those lurkers out there that Barb claims to know just
      let me say;Don't be afraid!Your hero Barb will defend you!Go ahead
      and speak up.According to Barb there are many,many of you so I would
      expect to hear from at least a few.
      I would also love to hear from all of those members of Barbs
      community who view here as hero.Now is your chance to tout and praise
      her.I mean according to her she has done so much for you and you are
      so very dependant on her.Speak up!







      --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, powerdog68
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Thanks for posting the original post.
      >
      > "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a while
      and
      > plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."
      >
      > Now how does a Christian justify encouraging someone to lie? Well B
      > arb and her friends feel the ends justifies the means. How many
      > Christians would like to speak up in support of this statement.
      Barb,
      > Warrior-Princess, Champion of the Lurkers needs your support. Come
      on
      > all you legions of Barbites, here is your chance to pay her back for
      > all the times she has defended you. Lets here from you folks.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
      > <sincink@i...> wrote:
      > > Message: 9
      > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:21:29 -0000
      > > From: powerdog68
      > > Subject: Re: More of Barbs contradiction and hypocricy
      > >
      > > Going along with that Russ, I'd like to ask a question of those
      here
      > > claiming to be Christian. What are your views on Barb post
      material
      > > from a website that was encouraging people to lie? Is that
      > > justifiable, or do you condemn it. Lets see how many responses we
      get.
      > > ===========================
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Here is the original post (see below)....
      > > And now I will go and show you authentic scans where
      > > the "slaves to the WT" lied to JW's. Deliberate and calculated
      > > out right lies to their domestics.
      > > And while you wait on that consider this:
      > >
      > > Quote: "One prominent Paltalk JW is accusing me of misquoting the
      > articles
      > > and twisting them, you will read below that this is not so."
      > >
      > >
      > > Would that be you powerdog????? LOL
      > > I should start forwarding some of your messages to the owner
      > > of this site and find out.
      > >
      > > What is Theocratic Warfare?
      > > Justified lying......
      > > http://www.agapeacceptance.co.uk/theocraticwarfare.htm
      > >
      > >
      > > Rev 14:5 And in their mouth (144,000) was found no guile (lies):
      > > for they are without fault before the throne of God.
      > >
      > > More to come <wink>
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: Sinclair Stable
      > > To: JWgathering
      > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 04:06
      > > Subject: Fwd messages ....More Leaving the WTBTS for Jesus Christ
      \o/
      > >
      > > John ch 10
      > > "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
      > > them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
      > > and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
      > >
      > > ~and THEY said to him, How long dost thou make us to doubt?
      > > If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. ....
      > >
      > > Jesus answered them,
      > >
      > > "I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my
      Father's
      > name,
      > > they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of
      > my sheep,
      > > as I said unto you.
      > > ****My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
      > > And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
      > neither shall
      > > any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them
      me,
      > > is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck them out of my
      > Father's hand."
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Abba! Father .... Amen you are giving more and more unto your
      Son Jesus
      > > Christ daily. \o/
      > >
      > > Do YOU hear his voice yet?
      > > If you do not, you have reason to be concerned.
      > >
      > >
      > > Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
      > > leaving the wtbts and jw's, names have been removed......
      > >
      > > In Christ,
      > > barb
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Begin forward message
      > > ________________________________________________________________
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
      > > From: "C" <>
      > > Subject: Re: help!
      > >
      > > >>>>>S wrote:
      > > Hi, im a jw who for the last month or two has been having serious
      > > doubts about it being the truth! I have read sites about jws and
      am
      > > not happy by what i read as its destroyed my faith in the
      > > organisation. I have already spoken to two elders and they have
      > > given me time to think about things abit more but they want to
      see
      > > me next friday and i really dont know what to say as i dont want
      to
      > > be a witness anymore but need to be in the organisation to still
      be
      > > able to see my best friends! do i lie and say everything is fine?
      > > What should i do?
      > >
      > > S<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi S,
      > >
      > > The best thing to do is to do a slow "fade away" from the
      Watchtower.
      > > Slowly stop attending meetings and stop reporting "field
      service".
      > > Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a while
      and
      > plug
      > > some numbers in, just to keep the elders away. Say you don't
      feel well
      > > and make any excuse about not attending meetings. Just do a slow
      > fade out.
      > > You DON'T want to have those elders on your back causing you extra
      > stress.
      > >
      > > Where are you located? Perhaps we can talk by phone and I can
      help
      > you.
      > > If you need some encouragement, write to me privately, and I will
      be
      > glad
      > > to call you, or you can call me.
      > >
      > > I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while. But
      > start out with looking at:
      > >
      > > http://www.freeminds.org
      > >
      > >
      > > C
      > >
      > > __________________________________________________________________
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
      > > From: F
      > > Subject: Re: help!
      > >
      > > Hi S
      > > My name is -F-! How are you doing!!! I am in the same position you
      > are!!!!
      > > The elders are coming to see me on Sunday! I have been having
      doubts
      > about
      > > the org. too!!! I have decided to jus come clean and tell them
      what
      > i am thinking!!!
      > > Of course it is easier to lie and say everything is fine while you
      > continue to drift
      > > or you can do as i am planning. You have to decide friend!!!!
      > Unlike you i have
      > > no friends in there that i cant do without! So that makes it
      easier.
      > The hard part
      > > for me is that i will lose my dad. But I have to be true to
      myself
      > and God!!!
      > > Do what will 1. bring you closer to GOd and 2. what will make you
      be
      > true to
      > > yourself. All the best!!! Keep me posted and i will do the same!!!
      > > F
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
      > > From: "S"
      > > Subject: Re: help!
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi F,
      > >
      > > Its good to know im not alone!!! None of my family are in the
      truth, so
      > > thats good! But i do care about a couple of my friends ( --- and -
      --
      > ). I
      > > really want to stay friends with them and to help them to be
      happy,
      > i can
      > > see they are not happy in the truth. Are you sure you want to tell
      > elders
      > > everything, cuz it will be hard to lose your dad, my friend (---)
      > cant see her
      > > dad as he was disfellowshipped last year and its like he has died
      > she says!
      > > Is he very strong in the truth? Have you spoke to him yet?
      > >
      > > Im going to pretend so i can try to help my friends, i will have
      to be
      > > careful how i do it though!
      > >
      > > Is this the first time they are coming to see you? they will tell
      > you that
      > > everything you read on the internet is only half truths and when
      you
      > ask
      > > them a good question like 'if Jah directs this organisation why
      does he
      > > allow mistakes about truth to be printed?' they will just give you
      > rubbish
      > > like people are not perfect so make mistakes and jah reveals
      things
      > when the
      > > time is right but not directly answer the question and answer why
      > jah allows
      > > errors to be printed!
      > >
      > > I really hate the way they disfellowship people, its so cruel
      > especially for
      > > families!
      > >
      > > You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
      eyes!
      > > www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
      watchtower.observer.org
      > > has lots of facts. the first one is a bornagain christian site but
      > has good
      > > info on the teaching of the witnesses.
      > >
      > > The elders will proberly have a chat then tell you to have a think
      > and meet
      > > you again in two or three weeks like me to see if you have changed
      > how you
      > > feel. I dont know what will happen next but will let you know!
      > >
      > > Please let me know what they say!
      > >
      > > Luv S
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
      > > From: "S"
      > > Subject: Re: help!
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi C,
      > >
      > > I have already told elders about me reading things on the internet
      > and they
      > > are going to see me next friday to see how im feeling now. I want
      to
      > help my
      > > friends too before i leave!
      > >
      > >
      > > Luv S
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > >
      > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
      > > From: R
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
      > >
      > > Hi S,
      > > I just left the organization a couple weeks ago, and it was
      hard
      > to leave
      > > a couple of the friends I was close to. I strongly feel that
      since I
      > know that
      > > it isn't an organization approved by God, I have a moral
      obligation
      > to others
      > > to take a stand. Maybe it will get my friends thinking and get
      them
      > out of the
      > > control of the Watchtower. I wrote my friends letters to let them
      > know about
      > > my decision. One called me to offer some encouragement, and
      > basically said
      > > to do what I need to do, and then "hurry back." The other came
      over
      > to my
      > > house to talk to me, and hear some of my reasons for leaving. She
      > even said
      > > to call her if I am ever feeling very depressed or anything(as I
      > have in the past
      > > couple years a lot). I don't think those friends will do anything
      > socially with
      > > me anymore, of course, but it meant a lot to me that she said
      that I
      > could call
      > > her if I needed to. I was able to explain a few of the reasons
      that
      > I left to both
      > > of them, and hopefully it will get them thinking.
      > > One said that she understood where I was coming from. So who
      knows,
      > > maybe she is having some doubts she isn't ready to admit yet.
      > > But I don't think it will help our friends learn the truth if
      we
      > are living a lie,
      > > and pretend to believe something we don't agree with. I don't
      think
      > I could be
      > > happy doing that myself, and it would be very stressful to feel
      like
      > I always had
      > > to hide my actions and true thoughts. It is very important to live
      > life in the way
      > > that makes you happy, and worship God in the way you believe the
      > Bible teaches.
      > > Living a lie always backfires sooner or later. The only way to
      help
      > others is to
      > > take a stand for what you truly believe, pray, and leave it in
      our
      > loving God's
      > > hands. I believe true friends will like you no matter what you
      > believe. I don't
      > > think the "fair weather friend" scenario fully applies to this
      > situation, but
      > > putting the condition on friendship of belonging to an
      organization
      > that is always
      > > changing what it currently believes is the truth cannot be
      right. I
      > think true friends
      > > mutually respect each other's beliefs even if they are different,
      > and do not put so
      > > many specific conditions on it. I know it's a difficult situation
      > though to be the
      > > one to walk away.
      > > My thoughts and prayers are with you. I understand and am
      > going through the
      > > "breaking away" part myself still.
      > >
      > > R
      > >
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
      > > From: T
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
      > >
      > > Dear S & R:
      > >
      > > I know it's a difficult thing to do, but God will see you both
      > through.
      > > The spirit of God has revealed to you that this is not his
      > organization.
      > > That's a milestone and a blessing in itself.
      > >
      > > I never was a baptised JW, but I met some very nice people in the
      > organization
      > > when I was studying with them. I could always sense in some of
      the
      > JW's that
      > > they knew what they were learning was not quite right. I could
      > sense that in
      > > some. But I know that leaving is very difficult especially for
      > those who have
      > > been born in the organization and its all one ever known. I
      don't
      > know if this
      > > is your situation, but still it's hard to depart.
      > >
      > > It was difficult for me when I had to make a choice between a man
      > and Jesus,
      > > my Lord and Savior. I am human and I wanted to be with my
      > children's father
      > > who decided he wanted to become a JW and he got baptised. I went
      > along for
      > > a while to the Kingdom Hall meetings and I prayed to God that he
      would
      > > change my heart, so that I could believe as the JW believe. Isn't
      > that crazy!
      > >
      > > I thank God for his holy spirit today and everyday and I am very
      > thankful to
      > > Jesus that my prayers wasn't answered. I am a child of God and so
      > are you!
      > > In no way will God ever depart from us, unless we depart from
      HIM.
      > > Jesus said I am with you always even until the end of this world.
      > >
      > > R you are courageous and non-selfish. I pray your friends in that
      > organization
      > > will follow after you. Sometimes it takes just one to make all
      > others see.
      > > In the meantime, get yourself geared up in the word of God and put
      > on the
      > > whole armour of his word and share with your friends how the
      WTBTS
      > > organization is not of God.
      > >
      > > Remember God loves you and will never leave you nor forsake you no
      > matter what!
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      _
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
      > > From: "S"
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
      > >
      > > Hi R,
      > >
      > > Its good you have taken a stand! Im just afraid that if i go, the
      > elders
      > > will tell my friends im aspostate and they will not listen to
      > anything i
      > > say!
      > >
      > > I did say in a text message to my friend, the one who taught me
      the
      > truth
      > > that love should be unconditional just the Jesus loves us all. her
      > reply was
      > > that i dont know my friends very well! their loyalty is to God and
      > she is
      > > sad that i have allowed satan into my heart!!! She even tried to
      > scare me by
      > > saying that i have to make up my mind fast,choose to believe or
      lose
      > all my
      > > friends!
      > >
      > > I am hoping i can help a few of my other friends by bringing up
      > questions
      > > that will make them think and doubt the truth.
      > >
      > > I can understand why so many ex-witnesses are trying so hard to
      get
      > others
      > > out of the organisation!
      > >
      > > Are you the only one in your family? My family are not witnesses
      so
      > at least
      > > i wont lose them too.
      > >
      > > I will pray for you too!
      > >
      > > Luv S
      > >
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
      > > From: L
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
      > >
      > > Hi S and R
      > >
      > > I was never a JW, but I looked into becoming one, I was put off by
      > all sorts
      > > of reason and found that there are definitely too many
      > inconsistencies for it
      > > to be the "truth".
      > > I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've met
      more
      > ex-JWs
      > > there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've left the
      > organization,
      > > if fact you're now in the majority. JWs are leaving at a very
      rapid
      > rate. So my
      > > advise to you both is get into a church, find new friends with the
      > ex-JWs in
      > > the church as well as those who don't even know what JWs are.
      > > I've had a friend for about 4 years who has now only told me (
      after
      > I tested JWs )
      > > that she was one. The rest of her family on her mothers side
      still are.
      > > I can't believe that JW's won't be your friend after you've left
      the
      > organization.
      > > Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors, where does
      the
      > WT get off
      > > telling people not to be your friend.
      > >
      > > But still don't give up on your JW friends, they need to know the
      > "real truth".
      > >
      > > L
      > >
      > >
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
      > > From: "S"
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
      > >
      > >
      > > Hi L,
      > >
      > > Thanks for the advice! I will visit a christian church soon but
      will
      > have to
      > > keep it secret from the witnesses. I was only 17 when i started
      > studying
      > > with witnesses and very naive! Its great not having to feel guilty
      > all the
      > > time for just being like any other young woman my age! I am
      > determined to
      > > help my friends get out of this organisation but its not going to
      be
      > that
      > > easy.
      > >
      > > Luv S
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > >
      > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
      > > From: T
      > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
      > >
      > > That was very nicely put L. S and R did you know that there will
      be
      > > A Witness for Jesus Now Convention that will be held in October
      in the
      > > state of Pennsylvannia (PA)? Maybe you should consider attending
      > this if
      > > PA is not out of your reach. Speakers will be there which include
      > ex-elders
      > > of the WTBTS organization. Most of the people who will be in
      > attendance
      > > are exjehovahs witnesses who held high offices in the WTBTS
      > organization.
      > > The false teachings of the society will be discussed. You will
      hear
      > poweful
      > > testimonies from exjehovahs witnesses as well as the teachings of
      > God's word.
      > > You will hear how people came out of the org and how they found
      the
      > true Jesus
      > > of the bible.
      > >
      > > The convention will be very encouraging for people like the both
      of
      > you.
      > > L is right, you are not alone. Many are exiting the WTBTS and
      finding
      > > churches and being among the fellowship of Jesus Christ with other
      > believers.
      > >
      > > Be encouraged.
      > >
      > >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---------------------
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • oldrob67554
      What I find funny is hows shes becoming the Church of Barb at the same time shes attacking all other organizations as evil. She has her follows who rely on her
      Message 2 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
      • 0 Attachment
        What I find funny is hows shes becoming the Church of Barb at the
        same time shes attacking all other organizations as evil. She has
        her follows who rely on her to tell them whats what. She teaches
        them that she know the truth while ALL other churches are corrupt
        dens of vipers. How many times have we read where she said, "E-mail
        me, call me if you have any questions." What happened to trust it
        the Bible and not men? Barb, are you saying YOU are not only God,
        and can freely judge others as you see fit, but now you're the Bible
        also, and people should turn to you to tell them whats right and
        whats wrong? Im sure the lurkers in this group would love to know
        why they are not to turn to JWs, Lutherans, Methodist, or any others
        when they have questions, but should instead call up the Church of
        Barb to answer their questions?
        You're not going to let them down and not answer, are you Barb?

        Also, im a little curious about some of the things below.

        >>Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
        leaving the wtbts and jw's<<

        Barb, who started this "support group"? Who runs it? Where in the
        Bible does it say to turn to a support group? Don't you always
        preach not to turn to men, but to turn to Jesus? Or is this support
        group an organization where people can go to be taught by men about
        Jesus?

        >>I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while. But
        start out with looking at: http://www.freeminds.org<<

        Articles?? websites? Notice that these people arent directed to the
        Bible, but to articles written by men, and to an organization to
        tell them what to believe. Where in the Bible does it say to turn to
        articles, and websites, Barb??

        >>You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
        eyes! www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
        watchtower.observer.org has lots of facts.<<

        Seems like these people should be directing other to the Bible to
        have their eyes opened. Where in the Bible does it
        say, "towertotruth.org, and watchtower.observer shall set you free"??

        So far thats FOUR organizations that Barb directing people to.

        >>I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've met
        more ex-JWs there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've
        left the organization,<<
        Leaving one organization for another? Wheres Barbs warning not to
        trust in mens organizations??? Barb, why havent you warned this
        person not to trust in some man made "Christian Church" but to turn
        to Christ??

        >>So my advise to you both is get into a church<<

        JOIN AN ORGANIZATION??? WHERE ARE YOU WARNINGS BARB??????

        >>I will visit a christian church soon but will have to keep it
        secret from the witnesses.<<

        More lying Barb? Where in the Bible does it say to keep secrets???

        >>A Witness for Jesus Now Convention<<

        A convention?? Who organised this convention? Whos paying for it?
        Who decides who speaks? Can I come and say what I want to say at
        this convention or do all the speeches need to be approved by the
        leadership and only certain subjects allowed?


        Does anyone think Barb will actually respond to this post without
        showing her hypocrasy by again condemning JW for doing some of the
        things she does above?

        She attacks JWs for relying on WT writting, yet directs people to
        other peoples writings.

        She attacks JWs as an organization of men, yet supports many other
        groups and organizations of men.

        She attacks JW conventions as structured and controlled, yet
        supports the same type of convention when it supports her views.

        -Rob



        --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, ditchbilly
        <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where not
        > associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear
        them
        > and ol' Barb would back me up 110%.Exactly the same way she has
        done
        > with others here.It doesn't shock me to think that she would
        > encourage someone to lie.After all she started lying about knowing
        > Misty and how she had left Witnesses and had finally seen the
        truth
        > when she first came here.Pretty much set the tone right off the
        bat
        > if you ask me about it.
        > Now for all of those lurkers out there that Barb claims to know
        just
        > let me say;Don't be afraid!Your hero Barb will defend you!Go ahead
        > and speak up.According to Barb there are many,many of you so I
        would
        > expect to hear from at least a few.
        > I would also love to hear from all of those members of Barbs
        > community who view here as hero.Now is your chance to tout and
        praise
        > her.I mean according to her she has done so much for you and you
        are
        > so very dependant on her.Speak up!
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, powerdog68
        > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > Thanks for posting the original post.
        > >
        > > "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a
        while
        > and
        > > plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."
        > >
        > > Now how does a Christian justify encouraging someone to lie?
        Well B
        > > arb and her friends feel the ends justifies the means. How many
        > > Christians would like to speak up in support of this statement.
        > Barb,
        > > Warrior-Princess, Champion of the Lurkers needs your support.
        Come
        > on
        > > all you legions of Barbites, here is your chance to pay her back
        for
        > > all the times she has defended you. Lets here from you folks.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair
        Stable"
        > > <sincink@i...> wrote:
        > > > Message: 9
        > > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:21:29 -0000
        > > > From: powerdog68
        > > > Subject: Re: More of Barbs contradiction and hypocricy
        > > >
        > > > Going along with that Russ, I'd like to ask a question of
        those
        > here
        > > > claiming to be Christian. What are your views on Barb post
        > material
        > > > from a website that was encouraging people to lie? Is that
        > > > justifiable, or do you condemn it. Lets see how many responses
        we
        > get.
        > > > ===========================
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Here is the original post (see below)....
        > > > And now I will go and show you authentic scans where
        > > > the "slaves to the WT" lied to JW's. Deliberate and calculated
        > > > out right lies to their domestics.
        > > > And while you wait on that consider this:
        > > >
        > > > Quote: "One prominent Paltalk JW is accusing me of misquoting
        the
        > > articles
        > > > and twisting them, you will read below that this is not so."
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Would that be you powerdog????? LOL
        > > > I should start forwarding some of your messages to the owner
        > > > of this site and find out.
        > > >
        > > > What is Theocratic Warfare?
        > > > Justified lying......
        > > > http://www.agapeacceptance.co.uk/theocraticwarfare.htm
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Rev 14:5 And in their mouth (144,000) was found no guile
        (lies):
        > > > for they are without fault before the throne of God.
        > > >
        > > > More to come <wink>
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > > From: Sinclair Stable
        > > > To: JWgathering
        > > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 04:06
        > > > Subject: Fwd messages ....More Leaving the WTBTS for Jesus
        Christ
        > \o/
        > > >
        > > > John ch 10
        > > > "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
        > > > them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
        > > > and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
        > > >
        > > > ~and THEY said to him, How long dost thou make us to doubt?
        > > > If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. ....
        > > >
        > > > Jesus answered them,
        > > >
        > > > "I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my
        > Father's
        > > name,
        > > > they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are
        not of
        > > my sheep,
        > > > as I said unto you.
        > > > ****My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow
        me:
        > > > And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
        > > neither shall
        > > > any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave
        them
        > me,
        > > > is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck them out of
        my
        > > Father's hand."
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Abba! Father .... Amen you are giving more and more unto your
        > Son Jesus
        > > > Christ daily. \o/
        > > >
        > > > Do YOU hear his voice yet?
        > > > If you do not, you have reason to be concerned.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
        > > > leaving the wtbts and jw's, names have been removed......
        > > >
        > > > In Christ,
        > > > barb
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Begin forward message
        > > >
        ________________________________________________________________
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
        > > > From: "C" <>
        > > > Subject: Re: help!
        > > >
        > > > >>>>>S wrote:
        > > > Hi, im a jw who for the last month or two has been having
        serious
        > > > doubts about it being the truth! I have read sites about jws
        and
        > am
        > > > not happy by what i read as its destroyed my faith in the
        > > > organisation. I have already spoken to two elders and they
        have
        > > > given me time to think about things abit more but they want to
        > see
        > > > me next friday and i really dont know what to say as i dont
        want
        > to
        > > > be a witness anymore but need to be in the organisation to
        still
        > be
        > > > able to see my best friends! do i lie and say everything is
        fine?
        > > > What should i do?
        > > >
        > > > S<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi S,
        > > >
        > > > The best thing to do is to do a slow "fade away" from the
        > Watchtower.
        > > > Slowly stop attending meetings and stop reporting "field
        > service".
        > > > Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a
        while
        > and
        > > plug
        > > > some numbers in, just to keep the elders away. Say you don't
        > feel well
        > > > and make any excuse about not attending meetings. Just do a
        slow
        > > fade out.
        > > > You DON'T want to have those elders on your back causing you
        extra
        > > stress.
        > > >
        > > > Where are you located? Perhaps we can talk by phone and I can
        > help
        > > you.
        > > > If you need some encouragement, write to me privately, and I
        will
        > be
        > > glad
        > > > to call you, or you can call me.
        > > >
        > > > I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while. But
        > > start out with looking at:
        > > >
        > > > http://www.freeminds.org
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > C
        > > >
        > > >
        __________________________________________________________________
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
        > > > From: F
        > > > Subject: Re: help!
        > > >
        > > > Hi S
        > > > My name is -F-! How are you doing!!! I am in the same position
        you
        > > are!!!!
        > > > The elders are coming to see me on Sunday! I have been having
        > doubts
        > > about
        > > > the org. too!!! I have decided to jus come clean and tell them
        > what
        > > i am thinking!!!
        > > > Of course it is easier to lie and say everything is fine while
        you
        > > continue to drift
        > > > or you can do as i am planning. You have to decide friend!!!!
        > > Unlike you i have
        > > > no friends in there that i cant do without! So that makes it
        > easier.
        > > The hard part
        > > > for me is that i will lose my dad. But I have to be true to
        > myself
        > > and God!!!
        > > > Do what will 1. bring you closer to GOd and 2. what will make
        you
        > be
        > > true to
        > > > yourself. All the best!!! Keep me posted and i will do the
        same!!!
        > > > F
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
        > > > From: "S"
        > > > Subject: Re: help!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi F,
        > > >
        > > > Its good to know im not alone!!! None of my family are in the
        > truth, so
        > > > thats good! But i do care about a couple of my friends ( ---
        and -
        > --
        > > ). I
        > > > really want to stay friends with them and to help them to be
        > happy,
        > > i can
        > > > see they are not happy in the truth. Are you sure you want to
        tell
        > > elders
        > > > everything, cuz it will be hard to lose your dad, my friend (--
        -)
        > > cant see her
        > > > dad as he was disfellowshipped last year and its like he has
        died
        > > she says!
        > > > Is he very strong in the truth? Have you spoke to him yet?
        > > >
        > > > Im going to pretend so i can try to help my friends, i will
        have
        > to be
        > > > careful how i do it though!
        > > >
        > > > Is this the first time they are coming to see you? they will
        tell
        > > you that
        > > > everything you read on the internet is only half truths and
        when
        > you
        > > ask
        > > > them a good question like 'if Jah directs this organisation
        why
        > does he
        > > > allow mistakes about truth to be printed?' they will just give
        you
        > > rubbish
        > > > like people are not perfect so make mistakes and jah reveals
        > things
        > > when the
        > > > time is right but not directly answer the question and answer
        why
        > > jah allows
        > > > errors to be printed!
        > > >
        > > > I really hate the way they disfellowship people, its so cruel
        > > especially for
        > > > families!
        > > >
        > > > You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
        > eyes!
        > > > www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
        > watchtower.observer.org
        > > > has lots of facts. the first one is a bornagain christian site
        but
        > > has good
        > > > info on the teaching of the witnesses.
        > > >
        > > > The elders will proberly have a chat then tell you to have a
        think
        > > and meet
        > > > you again in two or three weeks like me to see if you have
        changed
        > > how you
        > > > feel. I dont know what will happen next but will let you know!
        > > >
        > > > Please let me know what they say!
        > > >
        > > > Luv S
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
        > > > From: "S"
        > > > Subject: Re: help!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi C,
        > > >
        > > > I have already told elders about me reading things on the
        internet
        > > and they
        > > > are going to see me next friday to see how im feeling now. I
        want
        > to
        > > help my
        > > > friends too before i leave!
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Luv S
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
        > > > From: R
        > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
        > > >
        > > > Hi S,
        > > > I just left the organization a couple weeks ago, and it was
        > hard
        > > to leave
        > > > a couple of the friends I was close to. I strongly feel that
        > since I
        > > know that
        > > > it isn't an organization approved by God, I have a moral
        > obligation
        > > to others
        > > > to take a stand. Maybe it will get my friends thinking and get
        > them
        > > out of the
        > > > control of the Watchtower. I wrote my friends letters to let
        them
        > > know about
        > > > my decision. One called me to offer some encouragement, and
        > > basically said
        > > > to do what I need to do, and then "hurry back." The other came
        > over
        > > to my
        > > > house to talk to me, and hear some of my reasons for leaving.
        She
        > > even said
        > > > to call her if I am ever feeling very depressed or anything(as
        I
        > > have in the past
        > > > couple years a lot). I don't think those friends will do
        anything
        > > socially with
        > > > me anymore, of course, but it meant a lot to me that she said
        > that I
        > > could call
        > > > her if I needed to. I was able to explain a few of the reasons
        > that
        > > I left to both
        > > > of them, and hopefully it will get them thinking.
        > > > One said that she understood where I was coming from. So who
        > knows,
        > > > maybe she is having some doubts she isn't ready to admit yet.
        > > > But I don't think it will help our friends learn the truth
        if
        > we
        > > are living a lie,
        > > > and pretend to believe something we don't agree with. I don't
        > think
        > > I could be
        > > > happy doing that myself, and it would be very stressful to
        feel
        > like
        > > I always had
        > > > to hide my actions and true thoughts. It is very important to
        live
        > > life in the way
        > > > that makes you happy, and worship God in the way you believe
        the
        > > Bible teaches.
        > > > Living a lie always backfires sooner or later. The only way
        to
        > help
        > > others is to
        > > > take a stand for what you truly believe, pray, and leave it
        in
        > our
        > > loving God's
        > > > hands. I believe true friends will like you no matter what you
        > > believe. I don't
        > > > think the "fair weather friend" scenario fully applies to this
        > > situation, but
        > > > putting the condition on friendship of belonging to an
        > organization
        > > that is always
        > > > changing what it currently believes is the truth cannot be
        > right. I
        > > think true friends
        > > > mutually respect each other's beliefs even if they are
        different,
        > > and do not put so
        > > > many specific conditions on it. I know it's a difficult
        situation
        > > though to be the
        > > > one to walk away.
        > > > My thoughts and prayers are with you. I understand and am
        > > going through the
        > > > "breaking away" part myself still.
        > > >
        > > > R
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
        > > > From: T
        > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
        > > >
        > > > Dear S & R:
        > > >
        > > > I know it's a difficult thing to do, but God will see you both
        > > through.
        > > > The spirit of God has revealed to you that this is not his
        > > organization.
        > > > That's a milestone and a blessing in itself.
        > > >
        > > > I never was a baptised JW, but I met some very nice people in
        the
        > > organization
        > > > when I was studying with them. I could always sense in some
        of
        > the
        > > JW's that
        > > > they knew what they were learning was not quite right. I could
        > > sense that in
        > > > some. But I know that leaving is very difficult especially for
        > > those who have
        > > > been born in the organization and its all one ever known. I
        > don't
        > > know if this
        > > > is your situation, but still it's hard to depart.
        > > >
        > > > It was difficult for me when I had to make a choice between a
        man
        > > and Jesus,
        > > > my Lord and Savior. I am human and I wanted to be with my
        > > children's father
        > > > who decided he wanted to become a JW and he got baptised. I
        went
        > > along for
        > > > a while to the Kingdom Hall meetings and I prayed to God that
        he
        > would
        > > > change my heart, so that I could believe as the JW believe.
        Isn't
        > > that crazy!
        > > >
        > > > I thank God for his holy spirit today and everyday and I am
        very
        > > thankful to
        > > > Jesus that my prayers wasn't answered. I am a child of God
        and so
        > > are you!
        > > > In no way will God ever depart from us, unless we depart from
        > HIM.
        > > > Jesus said I am with you always even until the end of this
        world.
        > > >
        > > > R you are courageous and non-selfish. I pray your friends in
        that
        > > organization
        > > > will follow after you. Sometimes it takes just one to make all
        > > others see.
        > > > In the meantime, get yourself geared up in the word of God and
        put
        > > on the
        > > > whole armour of his word and share with your friends how the
        > WTBTS
        > > > organization is not of God.
        > > >
        > > > Remember God loves you and will never leave you nor forsake
        you no
        > > matter what!
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > _
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
        > > > From: "S"
        > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
        > > >
        > > > Hi R,
        > > >
        > > > Its good you have taken a stand! Im just afraid that if i go,
        the
        > > elders
        > > > will tell my friends im aspostate and they will not listen to
        > > anything i
        > > > say!
        > > >
        > > > I did say in a text message to my friend, the one who taught
        me
        > the
        > > truth
        > > > that love should be unconditional just the Jesus loves us all.
        her
        > > reply was
        > > > that i dont know my friends very well! their loyalty is to God
        and
        > > she is
        > > > sad that i have allowed satan into my heart!!! She even tried
        to
        > > scare me by
        > > > saying that i have to make up my mind fast,choose to believe
        or
        > lose
        > > all my
        > > > friends!
        > > >
        > > > I am hoping i can help a few of my other friends by bringing up
        > > questions
        > > > that will make them think and doubt the truth.
        > > >
        > > > I can understand why so many ex-witnesses are trying so hard
        to
        > get
        > > others
        > > > out of the organisation!
        > > >
        > > > Are you the only one in your family? My family are not
        witnesses
        > so
        > > at least
        > > > i wont lose them too.
        > > >
        > > > I will pray for you too!
        > > >
        > > > Luv S
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
        > > > From: L
        > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
        > > >
        > > > Hi S and R
        > > >
        > > > I was never a JW, but I looked into becoming one, I was put
        off by
        > > all sorts
        > > > of reason and found that there are definitely too many
        > > inconsistencies for it
        > > > to be the "truth".
        > > > I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've
        met
        > more
        > > ex-JWs
        > > > there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've left the
        > > organization,
        > > > if fact you're now in the majority. JWs are leaving at a very
        > rapid
        > > rate. So my
        > > > advise to you both is get into a church, find new friends with
        the
        > > ex-JWs in
        > > > the church as well as those who don't even know what JWs are.
        > > > I've had a friend for about 4 years who has now only told me (
        > after
        > > I tested JWs )
        > > > that she was one. The rest of her family on her mothers side
        > still are.
        > > > I can't believe that JW's won't be your friend after you've
        left
        > the
        > > organization.
        > > > Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors, where
        does
        > the
        > > WT get off
        > > > telling people not to be your friend.
        > > >
        > > > But still don't give up on your JW friends, they need to know
        the
        > > "real truth".
        > > >
        > > > L
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
        > > > From: "S"
        > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Hi L,
        > > >
        > > > Thanks for the advice! I will visit a christian church soon
        but
        > will
        > > have to
        > > > keep it secret from the witnesses. I was only 17 when i started
        > > studying
        > > > with witnesses and very naive! Its great not having to feel
        guilty
        > > all the
        > > > time for just being like any other young woman my age! I am
        > > determined to
        > > > help my friends get out of this organisation but its not going
        to
        > be
        > > that
        > > > easy.
        > > >
        > > > Luv S
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        >
        _____________________________________________________________________
        _
        > __
        > > >
        > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
        > > > From: T
        > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
        > > >
        > > > That was very nicely put L. S and R did you know that there
        will
        > be
        > > > A Witness for Jesus Now Convention that will be held in
        October
        > in the
        > > > state of Pennsylvannia (PA)? Maybe you should consider
        attending
        > > this if
        > > > PA is not out of your reach. Speakers will be there which
        include
        > > ex-elders
        > > > of the WTBTS organization. Most of the people who will be in
        > > attendance
        > > > are exjehovahs witnesses who held high offices in the WTBTS
        > > organization.
        > > > The false teachings of the society will be discussed. You
        will
        > hear
        > > poweful
        > > > testimonies from exjehovahs witnesses as well as the
        teachings of
        > > God's word.
        > > > You will hear how people came out of the org and how they
        found
        > the
        > > true Jesus
        > > > of the bible.
        > > >
        > > > The convention will be very encouraging for people like the
        both
        > of
        > > you.
        > > > L is right, you are not alone. Many are exiting the WTBTS and
        > finding
        > > > churches and being among the fellowship of Jesus Christ with
        other
        > > believers.
        > > >
        > > > Be encouraged.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
        ---
        > ---------------------
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • powerdog68
        You nailed it Rob.
        Message 3 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          You nailed it Rob.

          --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, oldrob67554
          <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > What I find funny is hows shes becoming the Church of Barb at the
          > same time shes attacking all other organizations as evil. She has
          > her follows who rely on her to tell them whats what. She teaches
          > them that she know the truth while ALL other churches are corrupt
          > dens of vipers. How many times have we read where she said, "E-mail
          > me, call me if you have any questions." What happened to trust it
          > the Bible and not men? Barb, are you saying YOU are not only God,
          > and can freely judge others as you see fit, but now you're the Bible
          > also, and people should turn to you to tell them whats right and
          > whats wrong? Im sure the lurkers in this group would love to know
          > why they are not to turn to JWs, Lutherans, Methodist, or any others
          > when they have questions, but should instead call up the Church of
          > Barb to answer their questions?
          > You're not going to let them down and not answer, are you Barb?
          >
          > Also, im a little curious about some of the things below.
          >
          > >>Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
          > leaving the wtbts and jw's<<
          >
          > Barb, who started this "support group"? Who runs it? Where in the
          > Bible does it say to turn to a support group? Don't you always
          > preach not to turn to men, but to turn to Jesus? Or is this support
          > group an organization where people can go to be taught by men about
          > Jesus?
          >
          > >>I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while. But
          > start out with looking at: http://www.freeminds.org<<
          >
          > Articles?? websites? Notice that these people arent directed to the
          > Bible, but to articles written by men, and to an organization to
          > tell them what to believe. Where in the Bible does it say to turn to
          > articles, and websites, Barb??
          >
          > >>You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
          > eyes! www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
          > watchtower.observer.org has lots of facts.<<
          >
          > Seems like these people should be directing other to the Bible to
          > have their eyes opened. Where in the Bible does it
          > say, "towertotruth.org, and watchtower.observer shall set you free"??
          >
          > So far thats FOUR organizations that Barb directing people to.
          >
          > >>I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've met
          > more ex-JWs there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've
          > left the organization,<<
          > Leaving one organization for another? Wheres Barbs warning not to
          > trust in mens organizations??? Barb, why havent you warned this
          > person not to trust in some man made "Christian Church" but to turn
          > to Christ??
          >
          > >>So my advise to you both is get into a church<<
          >
          > JOIN AN ORGANIZATION??? WHERE ARE YOU WARNINGS BARB??????
          >
          > >>I will visit a christian church soon but will have to keep it
          > secret from the witnesses.<<
          >
          > More lying Barb? Where in the Bible does it say to keep secrets???
          >
          > >>A Witness for Jesus Now Convention<<
          >
          > A convention?? Who organised this convention? Whos paying for it?
          > Who decides who speaks? Can I come and say what I want to say at
          > this convention or do all the speeches need to be approved by the
          > leadership and only certain subjects allowed?
          >
          >
          > Does anyone think Barb will actually respond to this post without
          > showing her hypocrasy by again condemning JW for doing some of the
          > things she does above?
          >
          > She attacks JWs for relying on WT writting, yet directs people to
          > other peoples writings.
          >
          > She attacks JWs as an organization of men, yet supports many other
          > groups and organizations of men.
          >
          > She attacks JW conventions as structured and controlled, yet
          > supports the same type of convention when it supports her views.
          >
          > -Rob
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, ditchbilly
          > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where not
          > > associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear
          > them
          > > and ol' Barb would back me up 110%.Exactly the same way she has
          > done
          > > with others here.It doesn't shock me to think that she would
          > > encourage someone to lie.After all she started lying about knowing
          > > Misty and how she had left Witnesses and had finally seen the
          > truth
          > > when she first came here.Pretty much set the tone right off the
          > bat
          > > if you ask me about it.
          > > Now for all of those lurkers out there that Barb claims to know
          > just
          > > let me say;Don't be afraid!Your hero Barb will defend you!Go ahead
          > > and speak up.According to Barb there are many,many of you so I
          > would
          > > expect to hear from at least a few.
          > > I would also love to hear from all of those members of Barbs
          > > community who view here as hero.Now is your chance to tout and
          > praise
          > > her.I mean according to her she has done so much for you and you
          > are
          > > so very dependant on her.Speak up!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, powerdog68
          > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > > Thanks for posting the original post.
          > > >
          > > > "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a
          > while
          > > and
          > > > plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."
          > > >
          > > > Now how does a Christian justify encouraging someone to lie?
          > Well B
          > > > arb and her friends feel the ends justifies the means. How many
          > > > Christians would like to speak up in support of this statement.
          > > Barb,
          > > > Warrior-Princess, Champion of the Lurkers needs your support.
          > Come
          > > on
          > > > all you legions of Barbites, here is your chance to pay her back
          > for
          > > > all the times she has defended you. Lets here from you folks.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair
          > Stable"
          > > > <sincink@i...> wrote:
          > > > > Message: 9
          > > > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:21:29 -0000
          > > > > From: powerdog68
          > > > > Subject: Re: More of Barbs contradiction and hypocricy
          > > > >
          > > > > Going along with that Russ, I'd like to ask a question of
          > those
          > > here
          > > > > claiming to be Christian. What are your views on Barb post
          > > material
          > > > > from a website that was encouraging people to lie? Is that
          > > > > justifiable, or do you condemn it. Lets see how many responses
          > we
          > > get.
          > > > > ===========================
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Here is the original post (see below)....
          > > > > And now I will go and show you authentic scans where
          > > > > the "slaves to the WT" lied to JW's. Deliberate and calculated
          > > > > out right lies to their domestics.
          > > > > And while you wait on that consider this:
          > > > >
          > > > > Quote: "One prominent Paltalk JW is accusing me of misquoting
          > the
          > > > articles
          > > > > and twisting them, you will read below that this is not so."
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Would that be you powerdog????? LOL
          > > > > I should start forwarding some of your messages to the owner
          > > > > of this site and find out.
          > > > >
          > > > > What is Theocratic Warfare?
          > > > > Justified lying......
          > > > > http://www.agapeacceptance.co.uk/theocraticwarfare.htm
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Rev 14:5 And in their mouth (144,000) was found no guile
          > (lies):
          > > > > for they are without fault before the throne of God.
          > > > >
          > > > > More to come <wink>
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > > From: Sinclair Stable
          > > > > To: JWgathering
          > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 04:06
          > > > > Subject: Fwd messages ....More Leaving the WTBTS for Jesus
          > Christ
          > > \o/
          > > > >
          > > > > John ch 10
          > > > > "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
          > > > > them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
          > > > > and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
          > > > >
          > > > > ~and THEY said to him, How long dost thou make us to doubt?
          > > > > If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. ....
          > > > >
          > > > > Jesus answered them,
          > > > >
          > > > > "I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my
          > > Father's
          > > > name,
          > > > > they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are
          > not of
          > > > my sheep,
          > > > > as I said unto you.
          > > > > ****My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow
          > me:
          > > > > And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
          > > > neither shall
          > > > > any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave
          > them
          > > me,
          > > > > is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck them out of
          > my
          > > > Father's hand."
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Abba! Father .... Amen you are giving more and more unto your
          > > Son Jesus
          > > > > Christ daily. \o/
          > > > >
          > > > > Do YOU hear his voice yet?
          > > > > If you do not, you have reason to be concerned.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
          > > > > leaving the wtbts and jw's, names have been removed......
          > > > >
          > > > > In Christ,
          > > > > barb
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Begin forward message
          > > > >
          > ________________________________________________________________
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: "C" <>
          > > > > Subject: Re: help!
          > > > >
          > > > > >>>>>S wrote:
          > > > > Hi, im a jw who for the last month or two has been having
          > serious
          > > > > doubts about it being the truth! I have read sites about jws
          > and
          > > am
          > > > > not happy by what i read as its destroyed my faith in the
          > > > > organisation. I have already spoken to two elders and they
          > have
          > > > > given me time to think about things abit more but they want to
          > > see
          > > > > me next friday and i really dont know what to say as i dont
          > want
          > > to
          > > > > be a witness anymore but need to be in the organisation to
          > still
          > > be
          > > > > able to see my best friends! do i lie and say everything is
          > fine?
          > > > > What should i do?
          > > > >
          > > > > S<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi S,
          > > > >
          > > > > The best thing to do is to do a slow "fade away" from the
          > > Watchtower.
          > > > > Slowly stop attending meetings and stop reporting "field
          > > service".
          > > > > Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a
          > while
          > > and
          > > > plug
          > > > > some numbers in, just to keep the elders away. Say you don't
          > > feel well
          > > > > and make any excuse about not attending meetings. Just do a
          > slow
          > > > fade out.
          > > > > You DON'T want to have those elders on your back causing you
          > extra
          > > > stress.
          > > > >
          > > > > Where are you located? Perhaps we can talk by phone and I can
          > > help
          > > > you.
          > > > > If you need some encouragement, write to me privately, and I
          > will
          > > be
          > > > glad
          > > > > to call you, or you can call me.
          > > > >
          > > > > I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while. But
          > > > start out with looking at:
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.freeminds.org
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > C
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > __________________________________________________________________
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: F
          > > > > Subject: Re: help!
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi S
          > > > > My name is -F-! How are you doing!!! I am in the same position
          > you
          > > > are!!!!
          > > > > The elders are coming to see me on Sunday! I have been having
          > > doubts
          > > > about
          > > > > the org. too!!! I have decided to jus come clean and tell them
          > > what
          > > > i am thinking!!!
          > > > > Of course it is easier to lie and say everything is fine while
          > you
          > > > continue to drift
          > > > > or you can do as i am planning. You have to decide friend!!!!
          > > > Unlike you i have
          > > > > no friends in there that i cant do without! So that makes it
          > > easier.
          > > > The hard part
          > > > > for me is that i will lose my dad. But I have to be true to
          > > myself
          > > > and God!!!
          > > > > Do what will 1. bring you closer to GOd and 2. what will make
          > you
          > > be
          > > > true to
          > > > > yourself. All the best!!! Keep me posted and i will do the
          > same!!!
          > > > > F
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: "S"
          > > > > Subject: Re: help!
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi F,
          > > > >
          > > > > Its good to know im not alone!!! None of my family are in the
          > > truth, so
          > > > > thats good! But i do care about a couple of my friends ( ---
          > and -
          > > --
          > > > ). I
          > > > > really want to stay friends with them and to help them to be
          > > happy,
          > > > i can
          > > > > see they are not happy in the truth. Are you sure you want to
          > tell
          > > > elders
          > > > > everything, cuz it will be hard to lose your dad, my friend (--
          > -)
          > > > cant see her
          > > > > dad as he was disfellowshipped last year and its like he has
          > died
          > > > she says!
          > > > > Is he very strong in the truth? Have you spoke to him yet?
          > > > >
          > > > > Im going to pretend so i can try to help my friends, i will
          > have
          > > to be
          > > > > careful how i do it though!
          > > > >
          > > > > Is this the first time they are coming to see you? they will
          > tell
          > > > you that
          > > > > everything you read on the internet is only half truths and
          > when
          > > you
          > > > ask
          > > > > them a good question like 'if Jah directs this organisation
          > why
          > > does he
          > > > > allow mistakes about truth to be printed?' they will just give
          > you
          > > > rubbish
          > > > > like people are not perfect so make mistakes and jah reveals
          > > things
          > > > when the
          > > > > time is right but not directly answer the question and answer
          > why
          > > > jah allows
          > > > > errors to be printed!
          > > > >
          > > > > I really hate the way they disfellowship people, its so cruel
          > > > especially for
          > > > > families!
          > > > >
          > > > > You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
          > > eyes!
          > > > > www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
          > > watchtower.observer.org
          > > > > has lots of facts. the first one is a bornagain christian site
          > but
          > > > has good
          > > > > info on the teaching of the witnesses.
          > > > >
          > > > > The elders will proberly have a chat then tell you to have a
          > think
          > > > and meet
          > > > > you again in two or three weeks like me to see if you have
          > changed
          > > > how you
          > > > > feel. I dont know what will happen next but will let you know!
          > > > >
          > > > > Please let me know what they say!
          > > > >
          > > > > Luv S
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: "S"
          > > > > Subject: Re: help!
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi C,
          > > > >
          > > > > I have already told elders about me reading things on the
          > internet
          > > > and they
          > > > > are going to see me next friday to see how im feeling now. I
          > want
          > > to
          > > > help my
          > > > > friends too before i leave!
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Luv S
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: R
          > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi S,
          > > > > I just left the organization a couple weeks ago, and it was
          > > hard
          > > > to leave
          > > > > a couple of the friends I was close to. I strongly feel that
          > > since I
          > > > know that
          > > > > it isn't an organization approved by God, I have a moral
          > > obligation
          > > > to others
          > > > > to take a stand. Maybe it will get my friends thinking and get
          > > them
          > > > out of the
          > > > > control of the Watchtower. I wrote my friends letters to let
          > them
          > > > know about
          > > > > my decision. One called me to offer some encouragement, and
          > > > basically said
          > > > > to do what I need to do, and then "hurry back." The other came
          > > over
          > > > to my
          > > > > house to talk to me, and hear some of my reasons for leaving.
          > She
          > > > even said
          > > > > to call her if I am ever feeling very depressed or anything(as
          > I
          > > > have in the past
          > > > > couple years a lot). I don't think those friends will do
          > anything
          > > > socially with
          > > > > me anymore, of course, but it meant a lot to me that she said
          > > that I
          > > > could call
          > > > > her if I needed to. I was able to explain a few of the reasons
          > > that
          > > > I left to both
          > > > > of them, and hopefully it will get them thinking.
          > > > > One said that she understood where I was coming from. So who
          > > knows,
          > > > > maybe she is having some doubts she isn't ready to admit yet.
          > > > > But I don't think it will help our friends learn the truth
          > if
          > > we
          > > > are living a lie,
          > > > > and pretend to believe something we don't agree with. I don't
          > > think
          > > > I could be
          > > > > happy doing that myself, and it would be very stressful to
          > feel
          > > like
          > > > I always had
          > > > > to hide my actions and true thoughts. It is very important to
          > live
          > > > life in the way
          > > > > that makes you happy, and worship God in the way you believe
          > the
          > > > Bible teaches.
          > > > > Living a lie always backfires sooner or later. The only way
          > to
          > > help
          > > > others is to
          > > > > take a stand for what you truly believe, pray, and leave it
          > in
          > > our
          > > > loving God's
          > > > > hands. I believe true friends will like you no matter what you
          > > > believe. I don't
          > > > > think the "fair weather friend" scenario fully applies to this
          > > > situation, but
          > > > > putting the condition on friendship of belonging to an
          > > organization
          > > > that is always
          > > > > changing what it currently believes is the truth cannot be
          > > right. I
          > > > think true friends
          > > > > mutually respect each other's beliefs even if they are
          > different,
          > > > and do not put so
          > > > > many specific conditions on it. I know it's a difficult
          > situation
          > > > though to be the
          > > > > one to walk away.
          > > > > My thoughts and prayers are with you. I understand and am
          > > > going through the
          > > > > "breaking away" part myself still.
          > > > >
          > > > > R
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: T
          > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
          > > > >
          > > > > Dear S & R:
          > > > >
          > > > > I know it's a difficult thing to do, but God will see you both
          > > > through.
          > > > > The spirit of God has revealed to you that this is not his
          > > > organization.
          > > > > That's a milestone and a blessing in itself.
          > > > >
          > > > > I never was a baptised JW, but I met some very nice people in
          > the
          > > > organization
          > > > > when I was studying with them. I could always sense in some
          > of
          > > the
          > > > JW's that
          > > > > they knew what they were learning was not quite right. I could
          > > > sense that in
          > > > > some. But I know that leaving is very difficult especially for
          > > > those who have
          > > > > been born in the organization and its all one ever known. I
          > > don't
          > > > know if this
          > > > > is your situation, but still it's hard to depart.
          > > > >
          > > > > It was difficult for me when I had to make a choice between a
          > man
          > > > and Jesus,
          > > > > my Lord and Savior. I am human and I wanted to be with my
          > > > children's father
          > > > > who decided he wanted to become a JW and he got baptised. I
          > went
          > > > along for
          > > > > a while to the Kingdom Hall meetings and I prayed to God that
          > he
          > > would
          > > > > change my heart, so that I could believe as the JW believe.
          > Isn't
          > > > that crazy!
          > > > >
          > > > > I thank God for his holy spirit today and everyday and I am
          > very
          > > > thankful to
          > > > > Jesus that my prayers wasn't answered. I am a child of God
          > and so
          > > > are you!
          > > > > In no way will God ever depart from us, unless we depart from
          > > HIM.
          > > > > Jesus said I am with you always even until the end of this
          > world.
          > > > >
          > > > > R you are courageous and non-selfish. I pray your friends in
          > that
          > > > organization
          > > > > will follow after you. Sometimes it takes just one to make all
          > > > others see.
          > > > > In the meantime, get yourself geared up in the word of God and
          > put
          > > > on the
          > > > > whole armour of his word and share with your friends how the
          > > WTBTS
          > > > > organization is not of God.
          > > > >
          > > > > Remember God loves you and will never leave you nor forsake
          > you no
          > > > matter what!
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > _
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: "S"
          > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi R,
          > > > >
          > > > > Its good you have taken a stand! Im just afraid that if i go,
          > the
          > > > elders
          > > > > will tell my friends im aspostate and they will not listen to
          > > > anything i
          > > > > say!
          > > > >
          > > > > I did say in a text message to my friend, the one who taught
          > me
          > > the
          > > > truth
          > > > > that love should be unconditional just the Jesus loves us all.
          > her
          > > > reply was
          > > > > that i dont know my friends very well! their loyalty is to God
          > and
          > > > she is
          > > > > sad that i have allowed satan into my heart!!! She even tried
          > to
          > > > scare me by
          > > > > saying that i have to make up my mind fast,choose to believe
          > or
          > > lose
          > > > all my
          > > > > friends!
          > > > >
          > > > > I am hoping i can help a few of my other friends by bringing up
          > > > questions
          > > > > that will make them think and doubt the truth.
          > > > >
          > > > > I can understand why so many ex-witnesses are trying so hard
          > to
          > > get
          > > > others
          > > > > out of the organisation!
          > > > >
          > > > > Are you the only one in your family? My family are not
          > witnesses
          > > so
          > > > at least
          > > > > i wont lose them too.
          > > > >
          > > > > I will pray for you too!
          > > > >
          > > > > Luv S
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: L
          > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi S and R
          > > > >
          > > > > I was never a JW, but I looked into becoming one, I was put
          > off by
          > > > all sorts
          > > > > of reason and found that there are definitely too many
          > > > inconsistencies for it
          > > > > to be the "truth".
          > > > > I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've
          > met
          > > more
          > > > ex-JWs
          > > > > there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've left the
          > > > organization,
          > > > > if fact you're now in the majority. JWs are leaving at a very
          > > rapid
          > > > rate. So my
          > > > > advise to you both is get into a church, find new friends with
          > the
          > > > ex-JWs in
          > > > > the church as well as those who don't even know what JWs are.
          > > > > I've had a friend for about 4 years who has now only told me (
          > > after
          > > > I tested JWs )
          > > > > that she was one. The rest of her family on her mothers side
          > > still are.
          > > > > I can't believe that JW's won't be your friend after you've
          > left
          > > the
          > > > organization.
          > > > > Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors, where
          > does
          > > the
          > > > WT get off
          > > > > telling people not to be your friend.
          > > > >
          > > > > But still don't give up on your JW friends, they need to know
          > the
          > > > "real truth".
          > > > >
          > > > > L
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: "S"
          > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi L,
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks for the advice! I will visit a christian church soon
          > but
          > > will
          > > > have to
          > > > > keep it secret from the witnesses. I was only 17 when i started
          > > > studying
          > > > > with witnesses and very naive! Its great not having to feel
          > guilty
          > > > all the
          > > > > time for just being like any other young woman my age! I am
          > > > determined to
          > > > > help my friends get out of this organisation but its not going
          > to
          > > be
          > > > that
          > > > > easy.
          > > > >
          > > > > Luv S
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > >
          > _____________________________________________________________________
          > _
          > > __
          > > > >
          > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
          > > > > From: T
          > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
          > > > >
          > > > > That was very nicely put L. S and R did you know that there
          > will
          > > be
          > > > > A Witness for Jesus Now Convention that will be held in
          > October
          > > in the
          > > > > state of Pennsylvannia (PA)? Maybe you should consider
          > attending
          > > > this if
          > > > > PA is not out of your reach. Speakers will be there which
          > include
          > > > ex-elders
          > > > > of the WTBTS organization. Most of the people who will be in
          > > > attendance
          > > > > are exjehovahs witnesses who held high offices in the WTBTS
          > > > organization.
          > > > > The false teachings of the society will be discussed. You
          > will
          > > hear
          > > > poweful
          > > > > testimonies from exjehovahs witnesses as well as the
          > teachings of
          > > > God's word.
          > > > > You will hear how people came out of the org and how they
          > found
          > > the
          > > > true Jesus
          > > > > of the bible.
          > > > >
          > > > > The convention will be very encouraging for people like the
          > both
          > > of
          > > > you.
          > > > > L is right, you are not alone. Many are exiting the WTBTS and
          > > finding
          > > > > churches and being among the fellowship of Jesus Christ with
          > other
          > > > believers.
          > > > >
          > > > > Be encouraged.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
          > ---
          > > ---------------------
          > > > >
          > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • oldrob67554
          I may have nailed it, but Barb supplied the hammer. -Rob ... the ... has ... corrupt ... mail ... it ... God, ... Bible ... know ... others ... of ... the ...
          Message 4 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            I may have nailed it, but Barb supplied the hammer.

            -Rob


            --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, powerdog68
            <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > You nailed it Rob.
            >
            > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, oldrob67554
            > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > What I find funny is hows shes becoming the Church of Barb at
            the
            > > same time shes attacking all other organizations as evil. She
            has
            > > her follows who rely on her to tell them whats what. She teaches
            > > them that she know the truth while ALL other churches are
            corrupt
            > > dens of vipers. How many times have we read where she said, "E-
            mail
            > > me, call me if you have any questions." What happened to trust
            it
            > > the Bible and not men? Barb, are you saying YOU are not only
            God,
            > > and can freely judge others as you see fit, but now you're the
            Bible
            > > also, and people should turn to you to tell them whats right and
            > > whats wrong? Im sure the lurkers in this group would love to
            know
            > > why they are not to turn to JWs, Lutherans, Methodist, or any
            others
            > > when they have questions, but should instead call up the Church
            of
            > > Barb to answer their questions?
            > > You're not going to let them down and not answer, are you Barb?
            > >
            > > Also, im a little curious about some of the things below.
            > >
            > > >>Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
            > > leaving the wtbts and jw's<<
            > >
            > > Barb, who started this "support group"? Who runs it? Where in
            the
            > > Bible does it say to turn to a support group? Don't you always
            > > preach not to turn to men, but to turn to Jesus? Or is this
            support
            > > group an organization where people can go to be taught by men
            about
            > > Jesus?
            > >
            > > >>I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while.
            But
            > > start out with looking at: http://www.freeminds.org<<
            > >
            > > Articles?? websites? Notice that these people arent directed to
            the
            > > Bible, but to articles written by men, and to an organization to
            > > tell them what to believe. Where in the Bible does it say to
            turn to
            > > articles, and websites, Barb??
            > >
            > > >>You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
            > > eyes! www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
            > > watchtower.observer.org has lots of facts.<<
            > >
            > > Seems like these people should be directing other to the Bible
            to
            > > have their eyes opened. Where in the Bible does it
            > > say, "towertotruth.org, and watchtower.observer shall set you
            free"??
            > >
            > > So far thats FOUR organizations that Barb directing people to.
            > >
            > > >>I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've
            met
            > > more ex-JWs there than anywhere. You are not alone now that
            you've
            > > left the organization,<<
            > > Leaving one organization for another? Wheres Barbs warning not
            to
            > > trust in mens organizations??? Barb, why havent you warned this
            > > person not to trust in some man made "Christian Church" but to
            turn
            > > to Christ??
            > >
            > > >>So my advise to you both is get into a church<<
            > >
            > > JOIN AN ORGANIZATION??? WHERE ARE YOU WARNINGS BARB??????
            > >
            > > >>I will visit a christian church soon but will have to keep it
            > > secret from the witnesses.<<
            > >
            > > More lying Barb? Where in the Bible does it say to keep
            secrets???
            > >
            > > >>A Witness for Jesus Now Convention<<
            > >
            > > A convention?? Who organised this convention? Whos paying for
            it?
            > > Who decides who speaks? Can I come and say what I want to say at
            > > this convention or do all the speeches need to be approved by
            the
            > > leadership and only certain subjects allowed?
            > >
            > >
            > > Does anyone think Barb will actually respond to this post
            without
            > > showing her hypocrasy by again condemning JW for doing some of
            the
            > > things she does above?
            > >
            > > She attacks JWs for relying on WT writting, yet directs people
            to
            > > other peoples writings.
            > >
            > > She attacks JWs as an organization of men, yet supports many
            other
            > > groups and organizations of men.
            > >
            > > She attacks JW conventions as structured and controlled, yet
            > > supports the same type of convention when it supports her views.
            > >
            > > -Rob
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, ditchbilly
            > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where
            not
            > > > associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear
            > > them
            > > > and ol' Barb would back me up 110%.Exactly the same way she
            has
            > > done
            > > > with others here.It doesn't shock me to think that she would
            > > > encourage someone to lie.After all she started lying about
            knowing
            > > > Misty and how she had left Witnesses and had finally seen the
            > > truth
            > > > when she first came here.Pretty much set the tone right off
            the
            > > bat
            > > > if you ask me about it.
            > > > Now for all of those lurkers out there that Barb claims to
            know
            > > just
            > > > let me say;Don't be afraid!Your hero Barb will defend you!Go
            ahead
            > > > and speak up.According to Barb there are many,many of you so I
            > > would
            > > > expect to hear from at least a few.
            > > > I would also love to hear from all of those members of Barbs
            > > > community who view here as hero.Now is your chance to tout and
            > > praise
            > > > her.I mean according to her she has done so much for you and
            you
            > > are
            > > > so very dependant on her.Speak up!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, powerdog68
            > > > <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > > Thanks for posting the original post.
            > > > >
            > > > > "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a
            > > while
            > > > and
            > > > > plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."
            > > > >
            > > > > Now how does a Christian justify encouraging someone to lie?
            > > Well B
            > > > > arb and her friends feel the ends justifies the means. How
            many
            > > > > Christians would like to speak up in support of this
            statement.
            > > > Barb,
            > > > > Warrior-Princess, Champion of the Lurkers needs your
            support.
            > > Come
            > > > on
            > > > > all you legions of Barbites, here is your chance to pay her
            back
            > > for
            > > > > all the times she has defended you. Lets here from you
            folks.
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair
            > > Stable"
            > > > > <sincink@i...> wrote:
            > > > > > Message: 9
            > > > > > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:21:29 -0000
            > > > > > From: powerdog68
            > > > > > Subject: Re: More of Barbs contradiction and hypocricy
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Going along with that Russ, I'd like to ask a question of
            > > those
            > > > here
            > > > > > claiming to be Christian. What are your views on Barb post
            > > > material
            > > > > > from a website that was encouraging people to lie? Is that
            > > > > > justifiable, or do you condemn it. Lets see how many
            responses
            > > we
            > > > get.
            > > > > > ===========================
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Here is the original post (see below)....
            > > > > > And now I will go and show you authentic scans where
            > > > > > the "slaves to the WT" lied to JW's. Deliberate and
            calculated
            > > > > > out right lies to their domestics.
            > > > > > And while you wait on that consider this:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Quote: "One prominent Paltalk JW is accusing me of
            misquoting
            > > the
            > > > > articles
            > > > > > and twisting them, you will read below that this is not
            so."
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Would that be you powerdog????? LOL
            > > > > > I should start forwarding some of your messages to the
            owner
            > > > > > of this site and find out.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > What is Theocratic Warfare?
            > > > > > Justified lying......
            > > > > > http://www.agapeacceptance.co.uk/theocraticwarfare.htm
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Rev 14:5 And in their mouth (144,000) was found no guile
            > > (lies):
            > > > > > for they are without fault before the throne of God.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > More to come <wink>
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > > > From: Sinclair Stable
            > > > > > To: JWgathering
            > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2004 04:06
            > > > > > Subject: Fwd messages ....More Leaving the WTBTS for Jesus
            > > Christ
            > > > \o/
            > > > > >
            > > > > > John ch 10
            > > > > > "other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
            > > > > > them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
            > > > > > and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
            > > > > >
            > > > > > ~and THEY said to him, How long dost thou make us to
            doubt?
            > > > > > If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. ....
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Jesus answered them,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > "I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in
            my
            > > > Father's
            > > > > name,
            > > > > > they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye
            are
            > > not of
            > > > > my sheep,
            > > > > > as I said unto you.
            > > > > > ****My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
            follow
            > > me:
            > > > > > And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never
            perish,
            > > > > neither shall
            > > > > > any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave
            > > them
            > > > me,
            > > > > > is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck them
            out of
            > > my
            > > > > Father's hand."
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Abba! Father .... Amen you are giving more and more unto
            your
            > > > Son Jesus
            > > > > > Christ daily. \o/
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Do YOU hear his voice yet?
            > > > > > If you do not, you have reason to be concerned.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Here is a forward of messages from a support group for
            those
            > > > > > leaving the wtbts and jw's, names have been removed......
            > > > > >
            > > > > > In Christ,
            > > > > > barb
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Begin forward message
            > > > > >
            > > ________________________________________________________________
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: "C" <>
            > > > > > Subject: Re: help!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > >>>>>S wrote:
            > > > > > Hi, im a jw who for the last month or two has been having
            > > serious
            > > > > > doubts about it being the truth! I have read sites about
            jws
            > > and
            > > > am
            > > > > > not happy by what i read as its destroyed my faith in the
            > > > > > organisation. I have already spoken to two elders and they
            > > have
            > > > > > given me time to think about things abit more but they
            want to
            > > > see
            > > > > > me next friday and i really dont know what to say as i
            dont
            > > want
            > > > to
            > > > > > be a witness anymore but need to be in the organisation to
            > > still
            > > > be
            > > > > > able to see my best friends! do i lie and say everything
            is
            > > fine?
            > > > > > What should i do?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > S<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi S,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The best thing to do is to do a slow "fade away" from the
            > > > Watchtower.
            > > > > > Slowly stop attending meetings and stop reporting "field
            > > > service".
            > > > > > Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a
            > > while
            > > > and
            > > > > plug
            > > > > > some numbers in, just to keep the elders away. Say you
            don't
            > > > feel well
            > > > > > and make any excuse about not attending meetings. Just do
            a
            > > slow
            > > > > fade out.
            > > > > > You DON'T want to have those elders on your back causing
            you
            > > extra
            > > > > stress.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Where are you located? Perhaps we can talk by phone and I
            can
            > > > help
            > > > > you.
            > > > > > If you need some encouragement, write to me privately, and
            I
            > > will
            > > > be
            > > > > glad
            > > > > > to call you, or you can call me.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I'll post some articles for you to read in a little
            while. But
            > > > > start out with looking at:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.freeminds.org
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > C
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > >
            __________________________________________________________________
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: F
            > > > > > Subject: Re: help!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi S
            > > > > > My name is -F-! How are you doing!!! I am in the same
            position
            > > you
            > > > > are!!!!
            > > > > > The elders are coming to see me on Sunday! I have been
            having
            > > > doubts
            > > > > about
            > > > > > the org. too!!! I have decided to jus come clean and tell
            them
            > > > what
            > > > > i am thinking!!!
            > > > > > Of course it is easier to lie and say everything is fine
            while
            > > you
            > > > > continue to drift
            > > > > > or you can do as i am planning. You have to decide
            friend!!!!
            > > > > Unlike you i have
            > > > > > no friends in there that i cant do without! So that makes
            it
            > > > easier.
            > > > > The hard part
            > > > > > for me is that i will lose my dad. But I have to be true
            to
            > > > myself
            > > > > and God!!!
            > > > > > Do what will 1. bring you closer to GOd and 2. what will
            make
            > > you
            > > > be
            > > > > true to
            > > > > > yourself. All the best!!! Keep me posted and i will do the
            > > same!!!
            > > > > > F
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: "S"
            > > > > > Subject: Re: help!
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi F,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Its good to know im not alone!!! None of my family are in
            the
            > > > truth, so
            > > > > > thats good! But i do care about a couple of my friends ( --
            -
            > > and -
            > > > --
            > > > > ). I
            > > > > > really want to stay friends with them and to help them to
            be
            > > > happy,
            > > > > i can
            > > > > > see they are not happy in the truth. Are you sure you want
            to
            > > tell
            > > > > elders
            > > > > > everything, cuz it will be hard to lose your dad, my
            friend (--
            > > -)
            > > > > cant see her
            > > > > > dad as he was disfellowshipped last year and its like he
            has
            > > died
            > > > > she says!
            > > > > > Is he very strong in the truth? Have you spoke to him yet?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Im going to pretend so i can try to help my friends, i
            will
            > > have
            > > > to be
            > > > > > careful how i do it though!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Is this the first time they are coming to see you? they
            will
            > > tell
            > > > > you that
            > > > > > everything you read on the internet is only half truths
            and
            > > when
            > > > you
            > > > > ask
            > > > > > them a good question like 'if Jah directs this
            organisation
            > > why
            > > > does he
            > > > > > allow mistakes about truth to be printed?' they will just
            give
            > > you
            > > > > rubbish
            > > > > > like people are not perfect so make mistakes and jah
            reveals
            > > > things
            > > > > when the
            > > > > > time is right but not directly answer the question and
            answer
            > > why
            > > > > jah allows
            > > > > > errors to be printed!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I really hate the way they disfellowship people, its so
            cruel
            > > > > especially for
            > > > > > families!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > You should have a look at some websites that have opened
            up my
            > > > eyes!
            > > > > > www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
            > > > watchtower.observer.org
            > > > > > has lots of facts. the first one is a bornagain christian
            site
            > > but
            > > > > has good
            > > > > > info on the teaching of the witnesses.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The elders will proberly have a chat then tell you to have
            a
            > > think
            > > > > and meet
            > > > > > you again in two or three weeks like me to see if you have
            > > changed
            > > > > how you
            > > > > > feel. I dont know what will happen next but will let you
            know!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Please let me know what they say!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Luv S
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: "S"
            > > > > > Subject: Re: help!
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi C,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I have already told elders about me reading things on the
            > > internet
            > > > > and they
            > > > > > are going to see me next friday to see how im feeling now.
            I
            > > want
            > > > to
            > > > > help my
            > > > > > friends too before i leave!
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Luv S
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: R
            > > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi S,
            > > > > > I just left the organization a couple weeks ago, and it
            was
            > > > hard
            > > > > to leave
            > > > > > a couple of the friends I was close to. I strongly feel
            that
            > > > since I
            > > > > know that
            > > > > > it isn't an organization approved by God, I have a moral
            > > > obligation
            > > > > to others
            > > > > > to take a stand. Maybe it will get my friends thinking and
            get
            > > > them
            > > > > out of the
            > > > > > control of the Watchtower. I wrote my friends letters to
            let
            > > them
            > > > > know about
            > > > > > my decision. One called me to offer some encouragement, and
            > > > > basically said
            > > > > > to do what I need to do, and then "hurry back." The other
            came
            > > > over
            > > > > to my
            > > > > > house to talk to me, and hear some of my reasons for
            leaving.
            > > She
            > > > > even said
            > > > > > to call her if I am ever feeling very depressed or anything
            (as
            > > I
            > > > > have in the past
            > > > > > couple years a lot). I don't think those friends will do
            > > anything
            > > > > socially with
            > > > > > me anymore, of course, but it meant a lot to me that she
            said
            > > > that I
            > > > > could call
            > > > > > her if I needed to. I was able to explain a few of the
            reasons
            > > > that
            > > > > I left to both
            > > > > > of them, and hopefully it will get them thinking.
            > > > > > One said that she understood where I was coming from. So
            who
            > > > knows,
            > > > > > maybe she is having some doubts she isn't ready to admit
            yet.
            > > > > > But I don't think it will help our friends learn the
            truth
            > > if
            > > > we
            > > > > are living a lie,
            > > > > > and pretend to believe something we don't agree with. I
            don't
            > > > think
            > > > > I could be
            > > > > > happy doing that myself, and it would be very stressful to
            > > feel
            > > > like
            > > > > I always had
            > > > > > to hide my actions and true thoughts. It is very important
            to
            > > live
            > > > > life in the way
            > > > > > that makes you happy, and worship God in the way you
            believe
            > > the
            > > > > Bible teaches.
            > > > > > Living a lie always backfires sooner or later. The only
            way
            > > to
            > > > help
            > > > > others is to
            > > > > > take a stand for what you truly believe, pray, and leave
            it
            > > in
            > > > our
            > > > > loving God's
            > > > > > hands. I believe true friends will like you no matter what
            you
            > > > > believe. I don't
            > > > > > think the "fair weather friend" scenario fully applies to
            this
            > > > > situation, but
            > > > > > putting the condition on friendship of belonging to an
            > > > organization
            > > > > that is always
            > > > > > changing what it currently believes is the truth cannot be
            > > > right. I
            > > > > think true friends
            > > > > > mutually respect each other's beliefs even if they are
            > > different,
            > > > > and do not put so
            > > > > > many specific conditions on it. I know it's a difficult
            > > situation
            > > > > though to be the
            > > > > > one to walk away.
            > > > > > My thoughts and prayers are with you. I understand
            and am
            > > > > going through the
            > > > > > "breaking away" part myself still.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > R
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: T
            > > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Dear S & R:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I know it's a difficult thing to do, but God will see you
            both
            > > > > through.
            > > > > > The spirit of God has revealed to you that this is not his
            > > > > organization.
            > > > > > That's a milestone and a blessing in itself.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I never was a baptised JW, but I met some very nice people
            in
            > > the
            > > > > organization
            > > > > > when I was studying with them. I could always sense in
            some
            > > of
            > > > the
            > > > > JW's that
            > > > > > they knew what they were learning was not quite right. I
            could
            > > > > sense that in
            > > > > > some. But I know that leaving is very difficult
            especially for
            > > > > those who have
            > > > > > been born in the organization and its all one ever
            known. I
            > > > don't
            > > > > know if this
            > > > > > is your situation, but still it's hard to depart.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > It was difficult for me when I had to make a choice
            between a
            > > man
            > > > > and Jesus,
            > > > > > my Lord and Savior. I am human and I wanted to be with my
            > > > > children's father
            > > > > > who decided he wanted to become a JW and he got baptised.
            I
            > > went
            > > > > along for
            > > > > > a while to the Kingdom Hall meetings and I prayed to God
            that
            > > he
            > > > would
            > > > > > change my heart, so that I could believe as the JW
            believe.
            > > Isn't
            > > > > that crazy!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I thank God for his holy spirit today and everyday and I
            am
            > > very
            > > > > thankful to
            > > > > > Jesus that my prayers wasn't answered. I am a child of
            God
            > > and so
            > > > > are you!
            > > > > > In no way will God ever depart from us, unless we depart
            from
            > > > HIM.
            > > > > > Jesus said I am with you always even until the end of this
            > > world.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > R you are courageous and non-selfish. I pray your friends
            in
            > > that
            > > > > organization
            > > > > > will follow after you. Sometimes it takes just one to
            make all
            > > > > others see.
            > > > > > In the meantime, get yourself geared up in the word of God
            and
            > > put
            > > > > on the
            > > > > > whole armour of his word and share with your friends how
            the
            > > > WTBTS
            > > > > > organization is not of God.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Remember God loves you and will never leave you nor
            forsake
            > > you no
            > > > > matter what!
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > _
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: "S"
            > > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi R,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Its good you have taken a stand! Im just afraid that if i
            go,
            > > the
            > > > > elders
            > > > > > will tell my friends im aspostate and they will not listen
            to
            > > > > anything i
            > > > > > say!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I did say in a text message to my friend, the one who
            taught
            > > me
            > > > the
            > > > > truth
            > > > > > that love should be unconditional just the Jesus loves us
            all.
            > > her
            > > > > reply was
            > > > > > that i dont know my friends very well! their loyalty is to
            God
            > > and
            > > > > she is
            > > > > > sad that i have allowed satan into my heart!!! She even
            tried
            > > to
            > > > > scare me by
            > > > > > saying that i have to make up my mind fast,choose to
            believe
            > > or
            > > > lose
            > > > > all my
            > > > > > friends!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I am hoping i can help a few of my other friends by
            bringing up
            > > > > questions
            > > > > > that will make them think and doubt the truth.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I can understand why so many ex-witnesses are trying so
            hard
            > > to
            > > > get
            > > > > others
            > > > > > out of the organisation!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Are you the only one in your family? My family are not
            > > witnesses
            > > > so
            > > > > at least
            > > > > > i wont lose them too.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I will pray for you too!
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Luv S
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: L
            > > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi S and R
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I was never a JW, but I looked into becoming one, I was
            put
            > > off by
            > > > > all sorts
            > > > > > of reason and found that there are definitely too many
            > > > > inconsistencies for it
            > > > > > to be the "truth".
            > > > > > I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and
            I've
            > > met
            > > > more
            > > > > ex-JWs
            > > > > > there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've
            left the
            > > > > organization,
            > > > > > if fact you're now in the majority. JWs are leaving at a
            very
            > > > rapid
            > > > > rate. So my
            > > > > > advise to you both is get into a church, find new friends
            with
            > > the
            > > > > ex-JWs in
            > > > > > the church as well as those who don't even know what JWs
            are.
            > > > > > I've had a friend for about 4 years who has now only told
            me (
            > > > after
            > > > > I tested JWs )
            > > > > > that she was one. The rest of her family on her mothers
            side
            > > > still are.
            > > > > > I can't believe that JW's won't be your friend after
            you've
            > > left
            > > > the
            > > > > organization.
            > > > > > Jesus was a friend to prostitutes and tax collectors,
            where
            > > does
            > > > the
            > > > > WT get off
            > > > > > telling people not to be your friend.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > But still don't give up on your JW friends, they need to
            know
            > > the
            > > > > "real truth".
            > > > > >
            > > > > > L
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: "S"
            > > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi L,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Thanks for the advice! I will visit a christian church
            soon
            > > but
            > > > will
            > > > > have to
            > > > > > keep it secret from the witnesses. I was only 17 when i
            started
            > > > > studying
            > > > > > with witnesses and very naive! Its great not having to
            feel
            > > guilty
            > > > > all the
            > > > > > time for just being like any other young woman my age! I am
            > > > > determined to
            > > > > > help my friends get out of this organisation but its not
            going
            > > to
            > > > be
            > > > > that
            > > > > > easy.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Luv S
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            _____________________________________________________________________
            > > _
            > > > __
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004
            > > > > > From: T
            > > > > > Subject: Re: Digest Number ---
            > > > > >
            > > > > > That was very nicely put L. S and R did you know that
            there
            > > will
            > > > be
            > > > > > A Witness for Jesus Now Convention that will be held in
            > > October
            > > > in the
            > > > > > state of Pennsylvannia (PA)? Maybe you should consider
            > > attending
            > > > > this if
            > > > > > PA is not out of your reach. Speakers will be there which
            > > include
            > > > > ex-elders
            > > > > > of the WTBTS organization. Most of the people who will be
            in
            > > > > attendance
            > > > > > are exjehovahs witnesses who held high offices in the WTBTS
            > > > > organization.
            > > > > > The false teachings of the society will be discussed. You
            > > will
            > > > hear
            > > > > poweful
            > > > > > testimonies from exjehovahs witnesses as well as the
            > > teachings of
            > > > > God's word.
            > > > > > You will hear how people came out of the org and how they
            > > found
            > > > the
            > > > > true Jesus
            > > > > > of the bible.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The convention will be very encouraging for people like
            the
            > > both
            > > > of
            > > > > you.
            > > > > > L is right, you are not alone. Many are exiting the WTBTS
            and
            > > > finding
            > > > > > churches and being among the fellowship of Jesus Christ
            with
            > > other
            > > > > believers.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Be encouraged.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
            ----
            > > ---
            > > > ---------------------
            > > > > >
            > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sinclair Stable
            Message: 4 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:04:24 -0000 From: powerdog68 Subject: Thanks Barb Thanks for posting the original post. Or if it makes you feel better,
            Message 5 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
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              Message: 4
              Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:04:24 -0000
              From: powerdog68
              Subject: Thanks Barb

              Thanks for posting the original post.

              "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a while and
              plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."

              Now how does a Christian justify encouraging someone to lie? Well B
              arb and her friends feel the ends justifies the means. How many
              Christians would like to speak up in support of this statement. Barb,
              Warrior-Princess, Champion of the Lurkers needs your support. Come on
              all you legions of Barbites, here is your chance to pay her back for
              all the times she has defended you. Lets here from you folks.

              ============================



              "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a while and
              plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."


              WT May 1, 1957 p. 284-285
              "Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to
              others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all
              the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons.
              But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy
              does not harm him, especially when he would use such information
              to harm others who are innocent. So in time of spiritual warfare it
              is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done
              unselfishly;
              it does not harm anyone; on the contrary; it does much good"

              Aid to Bible Understanding (1971) pp.1060-1061:
              "Jehovah God allows an "operation of error" to go to persons who prefer
              falsehood "that they may get to believing the lie" rather than the good news
              about Jesus Christ. (2 Thess. 2:9-12) This principle is illustrated by what
              happened centuries earlier in the case of Israelite King Ahab. Lying
              prophets
              assured Ahab of success in war against Ramoth-gilead, while Jehovah's
              prophet Micaiah foretold disaster. As revealed in vision to Micaiah, Jehovah
              allowed a spirit creature to become a "deceptive spirit" in the mouth of
              Ahab's
              prophets. That is to say, this spirit creature exercised his power upon them
              so
              that they spoke, not truth, but what they themselves wanted to say and what
              Ahab wanted to hear from them. Though forewarned, Ahab preferred to be
              fooled by their lies and paid for it with his life.
              1 Ki. 22:1-38; 2 Chron. chap. 18."


              *powerdog, are you certain that your not the one being fooled by the
              false prophet and those leaving the WTBTS are really going to the REAL
              Christ Jesus the Son of God our Lord and Saviour?

              Are you entitled to know the Truth? Yes, you are;

              Jesus Christ said,

              "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
              This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man
              may eat thereof, and not die. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh
              my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. Whosoever drinketh of the water
              that I Jesus shall give him (not what the slaves to the wt gives you)
              shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him
              a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

              Believest thou this?

              or the false prophets?
              http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html

              In Christ,
              barb
              John 14:6-7
            • Sinclair Stable
              Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:45:08 -0000 From: ditchbilly ... associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear them
              Message 6 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:45:08 -0000
                From: ditchbilly
                >>>>>I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where not
                associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear them <<<<<


                This is odd, why would you or anyone want to "smear"
                Witnesses? Some of my best friends are "Witnesses".
                Both of Jesus Christ AND Jehovah God.




                >>>>and ol' Barb would back me up 110%.<<<<<<


                No, "ol' Barb" would not back anyone up for smearing
                anyone personally. Now, on false doctrine and gospel
                message... that I will rebuke and confess Lord Jesus Christ
                as the Word of God instructs through to His blessing.
                Matt 10:32, 2Ti 4:1-5, Rev 3:5



                >>>>>Exactly the same way she has done with others here.<<<<


                Who are all those authors of all those loads of WT publications?
                Why don't they sign them? Ecc 12:10-14



                >>>>It doesn't shock me to think that she would encourage someone to
                lie.<<<<


                Does it shock you that the slaves to the WT encourage this?

                I guess those leaving the WT learnt well from the slaves to the WT?

                (that's who the _forward post_ referd, and it was not I that encouraged it.)


                WT May 1, 1957 p. 284-285 -Use Theocratic War Strategy-
                [QUOTE]
                "Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others.
                Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human
                race.
                Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth,
                which
                he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when
                he would use such information to harm others who are innocent. .....
                So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by
                hiding
                the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the contrary;
                it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a
                spiritual,
                theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces
                and
                against false teachings. GOD'S SERVANTS ARE SENT FORTH AS SHEEP
                AMONG WOLVES and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of
                serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's kingdom committed
                to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any
                information
                to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work."
                [END QUOTE]

                Russ,
                Review the record of the "wolves" and "false prophets" God's Word
                spoke of in Matt 7:15-23
                Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing,
                but inwardly they are ravening wolves. .....
                http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html



                >>>>After all she started lying about knowing
                Misty and how she had left Witnesses and had finally seen the truth
                when she first came here.Pretty much set the tone right off the bat
                if you ask me about it.<<<<<<<<


                Who is "Misty"?
                Do you mean "Mindy"?

                Hey Mindy, if your reading your list.....
                I love you friend. (((hugs)))
                Hope you give me a call, 306-939-4807



                >>>>>Now for all of those lurkers out there that Barb claims to know just
                let me say;Don't be afraid!Your hero Barb will defend you!Go ahead
                and speak up.According to Barb there are many,many of you so I would
                expect to hear from at least a few.<<<<<<<<<<<<


                Hey Russ,
                Go to this link:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jehovahswitnessesgathering/

                ***_Do not sign in_***
                Click on "messages" and start reading the posts.
                You will see that you don't have to be a member to read this list.
                It is public and anyone can read it with internet connection.
                However, you do have to be a member to post messages. <g>



                >>>>I would also love to hear from all of those members of Barbs
                community who view here as hero.<<<<<<<<<


                No one sees me as a "hero" Russ. Those that I fellowship with see
                that one as Jesus Christ. Is there any other?


                >>>>>Now is your chance to tout and praise her.I mean according to
                her she has done so much for you and you are so very dependant on her.
                Speak up!<<<<<<<<<<<



                All praise and glory belong to God Russ. He is the one that has done it all.
                God's love is all the blessings we need. That's plenty enough to keep any
                believer in Him everlasting evermore. Amen \o/

                In Christ,
                mou kurios kai mou theos
                barb
                John 3:3-8
                John 14:6-7
              • powerdog68
                Barb, misrepresenting old WT s, doesn t excuse you for promoting and supporting lying. ... good news ... by what ... Jehovah ... upon them ... and what
                Message 7 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
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                  Barb, misrepresenting old WT's, doesn't excuse you for promoting and
                  supporting lying.


                  --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
                  <sincink@i...> wrote:
                  > Message: 4
                  > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:04:24 -0000
                  > From: powerdog68
                  > Subject: Thanks Barb
                  >
                  > Thanks for posting the original post.
                  >
                  > "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a while and
                  > plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."
                  >
                  > Now how does a Christian justify encouraging someone to lie? Well B
                  > arb and her friends feel the ends justifies the means. How many
                  > Christians would like to speak up in support of this statement. Barb,
                  > Warrior-Princess, Champion of the Lurkers needs your support. Come on
                  > all you legions of Barbites, here is your chance to pay her back for
                  > all the times she has defended you. Lets here from you folks.
                  >
                  > ============================
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > "Or if it makes you feel better, fill out a time card for a while and
                  > plug some numbers in, just to keep the elders away."
                  >
                  >
                  > WT May 1, 1957 p. 284-285
                  > "Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to
                  > others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all
                  > the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons.
                  > But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy
                  > does not harm him, especially when he would use such information
                  > to harm others who are innocent. So in time of spiritual warfare it
                  > is proper to misdirect the enemy by hiding the truth. It is done
                  > unselfishly;
                  > it does not harm anyone; on the contrary; it does much good"
                  >
                  > Aid to Bible Understanding (1971) pp.1060-1061:
                  > "Jehovah God allows an "operation of error" to go to persons who prefer
                  > falsehood "that they may get to believing the lie" rather than the
                  good news
                  > about Jesus Christ. (2 Thess. 2:9-12) This principle is illustrated
                  by what
                  > happened centuries earlier in the case of Israelite King Ahab. Lying
                  > prophets
                  > assured Ahab of success in war against Ramoth-gilead, while Jehovah's
                  > prophet Micaiah foretold disaster. As revealed in vision to Micaiah,
                  Jehovah
                  > allowed a spirit creature to become a "deceptive spirit" in the mouth of
                  > Ahab's
                  > prophets. That is to say, this spirit creature exercised his power
                  upon them
                  > so
                  > that they spoke, not truth, but what they themselves wanted to say
                  and what
                  > Ahab wanted to hear from them. Though forewarned, Ahab preferred to be
                  > fooled by their lies and paid for it with his life.
                  > 1 Ki. 22:1-38; 2 Chron. chap. 18."
                  >
                  >
                  > *powerdog, are you certain that your not the one being fooled by the
                  > false prophet and those leaving the WTBTS are really going to the REAL
                  > Christ Jesus the Son of God our Lord and Saviour?
                  >
                  > Are you entitled to know the Truth? Yes, you are;
                  >
                  > Jesus Christ said,
                  >
                  > "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
                  > This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man
                  > may eat thereof, and not die. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh
                  > my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. Whosoever drinketh of the water
                  > that I Jesus shall give him (not what the slaves to the wt gives you)
                  > shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him
                  > a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
                  >
                  > Believest thou this?
                  >
                  > or the false prophets?
                  > http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html
                  >
                  > In Christ,
                  > barb
                  > John 14:6-7
                • Sinclair Stable
                  oldrob, who or what inspires you? Where in the bible does it say _religion and orgs save_? Do you have a problem of people fellowshipping In Christ? Do you
                  Message 8 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
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                    oldrob,
                    who or what inspires you?

                    Where in the bible does it say _religion and orgs save_?
                    Do you have a problem of people fellowshipping In Christ?
                    Do you have a problem of people who hear Christ's call and
                    will only follow Him because its impossible to serve both God
                    and an organization?

                    God's arrangement, is for all who love Him to have a personal
                    individual intimate relationship with His Son and because of
                    that love and fellowship with Christ, He will come and bring
                    us to Him, so that where He is, there will also be all the believers.
                    (John ch 14). Is there any other way?

                    Does John 14:6-7 say:
                    The visible organization is the way, the truth, and the life:
                    no man comes to the Father, but by the visible organization.
                    If you take in knowledge by the visible organization, you should
                    come to known the Father Jehovah God also: and from henceforth
                    this valuable knowledge you take in will have you know of him,
                    and please him. ???????

                    In Christ,
                    barb



                    Message: 13
                    Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 12:04:36 -0000
                    From: oldrob67554
                    Subject: Re: Thanks Barb

                    What I find funny is hows shes becoming the Church of Barb at the
                    same time shes attacking all other organizations as evil. She has
                    her follows who rely on her to tell them whats what. She teaches
                    them that she know the truth while ALL other churches are corrupt
                    dens of vipers. How many times have we read where she said, "E-mail
                    me, call me if you have any questions." What happened to trust it
                    the Bible and not men? Barb, are you saying YOU are not only God,
                    and can freely judge others as you see fit, but now you're the Bible
                    also, and people should turn to you to tell them whats right and
                    whats wrong? Im sure the lurkers in this group would love to know
                    why they are not to turn to JWs, Lutherans, Methodist, or any others
                    when they have questions, but should instead call up the Church of
                    Barb to answer their questions?
                    You're not going to let them down and not answer, are you Barb?

                    Also, im a little curious about some of the things below.

                    >>Here is a forward of messages from a support group for those
                    leaving the wtbts and jw's<<

                    Barb, who started this "support group"? Who runs it? Where in the
                    Bible does it say to turn to a support group? Don't you always
                    preach not to turn to men, but to turn to Jesus? Or is this support
                    group an organization where people can go to be taught by men about
                    Jesus?

                    >>I'll post some articles for you to read in a little while. But
                    start out with looking at: http://www.freeminds.org<<

                    Articles?? websites? Notice that these people arent directed to the
                    Bible, but to articles written by men, and to an organization to
                    tell them what to believe. Where in the Bible does it say to turn to
                    articles, and websites, Barb??

                    >>You should have a look at some websites that have opened up my
                    eyes! www.towertotruth.org is really helpful and
                    watchtower.observer.org has lots of facts.<<

                    Seems like these people should be directing other to the Bible to
                    have their eyes opened. Where in the Bible does it
                    say, "towertotruth.org, and watchtower.observer shall set you free"??

                    So far thats FOUR organizations that Barb directing people to.

                    >>I've since got very involved in a Christian Church and I've met
                    more ex-JWs there than anywhere. You are not alone now that you've
                    left the organization,<<
                    Leaving one organization for another? Wheres Barbs warning not to
                    trust in mens organizations??? Barb, why havent you warned this
                    person not to trust in some man made "Christian Church" but to turn
                    to Christ??

                    >>So my advise to you both is get into a church<<

                    JOIN AN ORGANIZATION??? WHERE ARE YOU WARNINGS BARB??????

                    >>I will visit a christian church soon but will have to keep it
                    secret from the witnesses.<<

                    More lying Barb? Where in the Bible does it say to keep secrets???

                    >>A Witness for Jesus Now Convention<<

                    A convention?? Who organised this convention? Whos paying for it?
                    Who decides who speaks? Can I come and say what I want to say at
                    this convention or do all the speeches need to be approved by the
                    leadership and only certain subjects allowed?


                    Does anyone think Barb will actually respond to this post without
                    showing her hypocrasy by again condemning JW for doing some of the
                    things she does above?

                    She attacks JWs for relying on WT writting, yet directs people to
                    other peoples writings.

                    She attacks JWs as an organization of men, yet supports many other
                    groups and organizations of men.

                    She attacks JW conventions as structured and controlled, yet
                    supports the same type of convention when it supports her views.

                    -Rob



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • powerdog68
                    Barb, How does the 57WT you keep misrepresenting encourage lying? You said, and it was not I that encouraged it. But you are the one that proudly posted it.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Sep 1, 2004
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Barb, How does the 57WT you keep misrepresenting encourage lying?

                      You said, "and it was not I that encouraged it." But you are the one
                      that proudly posted it. That makes you a supporter of the advice to
                      lie. If you don't support it, why did you post it? Where you going to
                      condemn it, and just forgot? Would you like to condemn it now?



                      --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
                      <sincink@i...> wrote:
                      > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:45:08 -0000
                      > From: ditchbilly
                      > >>>>>I agree with this sarcasm 100% because I know that if I where not
                      > associated with Witnesses I could say and do anything to smear them
                      <<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > This is odd, why would you or anyone want to "smear"
                      > Witnesses? Some of my best friends are "Witnesses".
                      > Both of Jesus Christ AND Jehovah God.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>and ol' Barb would back me up 110%.<<<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > No, "ol' Barb" would not back anyone up for smearing
                      > anyone personally. Now, on false doctrine and gospel
                      > message... that I will rebuke and confess Lord Jesus Christ
                      > as the Word of God instructs through to His blessing.
                      > Matt 10:32, 2Ti 4:1-5, Rev 3:5
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>>Exactly the same way she has done with others here.<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > Who are all those authors of all those loads of WT publications?
                      > Why don't they sign them? Ecc 12:10-14
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>It doesn't shock me to think that she would encourage someone to
                      > lie.<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > Does it shock you that the slaves to the WT encourage this?
                      >
                      > I guess those leaving the WT learnt well from the slaves to the WT?
                      >
                      > (that's who the _forward post_ referd, and it was not I that
                      encouraged it.)
                      >
                      >
                      > WT May 1, 1957 p. 284-285 -Use Theocratic War Strategy-
                      > [QUOTE]
                      > "Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to
                      others.
                      > Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human
                      > race.
                      > Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the
                      truth,
                      > which
                      > he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him,
                      especially when
                      > he would use such information to harm others who are innocent. .....
                      > So in time of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect the enemy by
                      > hiding
                      > the truth. It is done unselfishly; it does not harm anyone; on the
                      contrary;
                      > it does much good. Today God's servants are engaged in a warfare, a
                      > spiritual,
                      > theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit
                      forces
                      > and
                      > against false teachings. GOD'S SERVANTS ARE SENT FORTH AS SHEEP
                      > AMONG WOLVES and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of
                      > serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God's kingdom
                      committed
                      > to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any
                      > information
                      > to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work."
                      > [END QUOTE]
                      >
                      > Russ,
                      > Review the record of the "wolves" and "false prophets" God's Word
                      > spoke of in Matt 7:15-23
                      > Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing,
                      > but inwardly they are ravening wolves. .....
                      > http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>After all she started lying about knowing
                      > Misty and how she had left Witnesses and had finally seen the truth
                      > when she first came here.Pretty much set the tone right off the bat
                      > if you ask me about it.<<<<<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > Who is "Misty"?
                      > Do you mean "Mindy"?
                      >
                      > Hey Mindy, if your reading your list.....
                      > I love you friend. (((hugs)))
                      > Hope you give me a call, 306-939-4807
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>>Now for all of those lurkers out there that Barb claims to know
                      just
                      > let me say;Don't be afraid!Your hero Barb will defend you!Go ahead
                      > and speak up.According to Barb there are many,many of you so I would
                      > expect to hear from at least a few.<<<<<<<<<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > Hey Russ,
                      > Go to this link:
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jehovahswitnessesgathering/
                      >
                      > ***_Do not sign in_***
                      > Click on "messages" and start reading the posts.
                      > You will see that you don't have to be a member to read this list.
                      > It is public and anyone can read it with internet connection.
                      > However, you do have to be a member to post messages. <g>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>I would also love to hear from all of those members of Barbs
                      > community who view here as hero.<<<<<<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      > No one sees me as a "hero" Russ. Those that I fellowship with see
                      > that one as Jesus Christ. Is there any other?
                      >
                      >
                      > >>>>>Now is your chance to tout and praise her.I mean according to
                      > her she has done so much for you and you are so very dependant on her.
                      > Speak up!<<<<<<<<<<<
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > All praise and glory belong to God Russ. He is the one that has done
                      it all.
                      > God's love is all the blessings we need. That's plenty enough to
                      keep any
                      > believer in Him everlasting evermore. Amen \o/
                      >
                      > In Christ,
                      > mou kurios kai mou theos
                      > barb
                      > John 3:3-8
                      > John 14:6-7
                    • Sinclair Stable
                      Message: 9 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:13:24 -0000 From: powerdog68 Subject: Barbylon the Great? You nailed it Rob. ====================== no, all mankind nailed
                      Message 10 of 22 , Sep 2, 2004
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Message: 9
                        Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:13:24 -0000
                        From: powerdog68
                        Subject: Barbylon the Great?


                        You nailed it Rob.
                        ======================


                        no, all mankind nailed and it was Him to the tree.

                        And your, along with all unbelievers as yourself, are still
                        nailing Him (just a Saul, the man to be Paul persicuted Him)
                        by denying Him today, and spreading the false gospel message.

                        A dear friend of mine In Christ called himself an "Apostle of denial"
                        remembering the years 26 years he spent in the WTBTS. From the
                        early part of WW2 till 1970. He shares his own personal experiences
                        in the organization. He loves all JW's. He spent 5 years in prison for
                        the WT policies. He taught in the pioneer service out of the "Children
                        book"
                        In that book there was a couple called John and Eunice. The couple in the
                        book agreed to defer their marriage until after Armageddon, thus did not
                        have children. Today, Floyd Erwin as senior man because of that WT
                        failed prophesy has no children or grandchildren of his own. Floyd also
                        talks about the internet.

                        http://www.towertotruth.net/audio.htm
                        Floyd Erwin (1999)
                        Out Of The Watchtower: Into The Family Of God
                        Floyd was an active Jehovah's Witness for 26 years
                        and left the organization in 1970.
                        Email Floyd at erwin122@...
                        Click here to listen to Floyd's testimony:
                        http://www.towertotruth.net/Audiofiles/floyd_erwin.m3u


                        -
                        -


                        Resurrection of Jesus
                        The Current Teaching Of The Watchtower Society:
                        Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus.
                        They believe he took on different bodies, and was a spirit. The WTBTS
                        publications teach that Jesus was not given human life again because
                        that would mean he was taking back His ransom.

                        What the Bible Says about RESURRECTION OF JESUS:

                        Facts about the body & the Resurrection of Jesus
                        Ransom paid was Christ's blood, not His body Hbr 9:14, 20
                        Shed His blood Hbr 9:22
                        Purchased with His blood Act 20:28
                        Flesh and blood cannot enter God's Kingdom 1Cr 15:50
                        "It is I myself, a spirit hath not flesh and bones," then He ate Luk
                        24:36-43
                        Thomas touched Jesus' wounds and said, "My Lord and my God Jhn 20:27, 28
                        Jesus said He would raise His own body Jhn 2:19-21

                        Scripture record states, Jesus raised PHYSICALLY from the dead:
                        He will return as He left Act 1:9-11
                        Antichrist denies Jesus is coming in the flesh 2Jo 1:7
                        If Christ has not been raised our faith is in vain 1Cr 15:14, 17
                        Believe in your heart that Christ was raised from the dead Rom 10:9
                        God raised Jesus from the dead Act 2:24
                        Jesus raised His own body, SOMA ......
                        Soma = Greek word for tangible physical body Jhn 2:19-21; 10:18
                        The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead Rom 8:11

                        The physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ is confirmed as fact:
                        The empty tomb Jhn 20:1-9
                        Angelic testimony Mat 28:5-7
                        His enemies Mat 28:11

                        More confirmation came after Jesus resurrection -Eyewitnesses saw Him:
                        Mary Magdalene Mar 16:9
                        Other women Mat 28:9
                        Two disciples Luk 24:13-15
                        Simon Peter Luk 24:34
                        Ten Apostles Jhn 20:19, 24
                        Apostles at Sea of Galilee Jhn 21:1
                        Apostles in Galilee Mat 28:16, 17
                        600 Brethren 1Cr 15:6
                        Paul 1Cr 15:8
                        James 1Cr 15:7


                        In Christ,
                        barb
                      • powerdog68
                        Just as her role model, the Great Harlot, Barbylon uses all manner of dishonesty to attack those following Christ. Here is an example. Today, Floyd Erwin as
                        Message 11 of 22 , Sep 2, 2004
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                          Just as her role model, the Great Harlot, Barbylon uses all manner of
                          dishonesty to attack those following Christ. Here is an example.

                          "Today, Floyd Erwin as senior man because of that WT failed prophesy
                          has no children or grandchildren of his own. Floyd also talks about
                          the internet."

                          One, the WT has had no failed prophecy. In order for that to have
                          happened, they would have had to make a prophesy, which they have
                          never done. Despite her repeated assertion to the contrary, Barbylon
                          has never been able to show us one. Even some of her fellow opposers
                          on this board have had to finally admit they they had never actually
                          done so. Secondly, what does a nonexistent prophecy have to do with
                          whether or not this man had kids or grand-kids? Absolutely nothing.
                          Like so many in the world today, nothing is ever these peoples fault.
                          All their problems and regrets are someoneone elses fault. Why do the
                          majority of Witnesses of Floyds generation have children and
                          grandchildren? I'd like that question answered.




                          --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
                          <sincink@i...> wrote:
                          > Message: 9
                          > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:13:24 -0000
                          > From: powerdog68
                          > Subject: Barbylon the Great?
                          >
                          >
                          > You nailed it Rob.
                          > ======================
                          >
                          >
                          > no, all mankind nailed and it was Him to the tree.
                          >
                          > And your, along with all unbelievers as yourself, are still
                          > nailing Him (just a Saul, the man to be Paul persicuted Him)
                          > by denying Him today, and spreading the false gospel message.
                          >
                          > A dear friend of mine In Christ called himself an "Apostle of denial"
                          > remembering the years 26 years he spent in the WTBTS. From the
                          > early part of WW2 till 1970. He shares his own personal experiences
                          > in the organization. He loves all JW's. He spent 5 years in prison for
                          > the WT policies. He taught in the pioneer service out of the "Children
                          > book"
                          > In that book there was a couple called John and Eunice. The couple
                          in the
                          > book agreed to defer their marriage until after Armageddon, thus did not
                          > have children. Today, Floyd Erwin as senior man because of that WT
                          > failed prophesy has no children or grandchildren of his own. Floyd
                          also
                          > talks about the internet.
                          >
                          > http://www.towertotruth.net/audio.htm
                          > Floyd Erwin (1999)
                          > Out Of The Watchtower: Into The Family Of God
                          > Floyd was an active Jehovah's Witness for 26 years
                          > and left the organization in 1970.
                          > Email Floyd at erwin122@c...
                          > Click here to listen to Floyd's testimony:
                          > http://www.towertotruth.net/Audiofiles/floyd_erwin.m3u
                          >
                          >
                          > -
                          > -
                          >
                          >
                          > Resurrection of Jesus
                          > The Current Teaching Of The Watchtower Society:
                          > Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the physical resurrection of
                          Jesus.
                          > They believe he took on different bodies, and was a spirit. The WTBTS
                          > publications teach that Jesus was not given human life again because
                          > that would mean he was taking back His ransom.
                          >
                          > What the Bible Says about RESURRECTION OF JESUS:
                          >
                          > Facts about the body & the Resurrection of Jesus
                          > Ransom paid was Christ's blood, not His body Hbr 9:14, 20
                          > Shed His blood Hbr 9:22
                          > Purchased with His blood Act 20:28
                          > Flesh and blood cannot enter God's Kingdom 1Cr 15:50
                          > "It is I myself, a spirit hath not flesh and bones," then He ate Luk
                          > 24:36-43
                          > Thomas touched Jesus' wounds and said, "My Lord and my God Jhn 20:27, 28
                          > Jesus said He would raise His own body Jhn 2:19-21
                          >
                          > Scripture record states, Jesus raised PHYSICALLY from the dead:
                          > He will return as He left Act 1:9-11
                          > Antichrist denies Jesus is coming in the flesh 2Jo 1:7
                          > If Christ has not been raised our faith is in vain 1Cr 15:14, 17
                          > Believe in your heart that Christ was raised from the dead Rom 10:9
                          > God raised Jesus from the dead Act 2:24
                          > Jesus raised His own body, SOMA ......
                          > Soma = Greek word for tangible physical body Jhn 2:19-21; 10:18
                          > The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead Rom 8:11
                          >
                          > The physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ is confirmed as fact:
                          > The empty tomb Jhn 20:1-9
                          > Angelic testimony Mat 28:5-7
                          > His enemies Mat 28:11
                          >
                          > More confirmation came after Jesus resurrection -Eyewitnesses saw Him:
                          > Mary Magdalene Mar 16:9
                          > Other women Mat 28:9
                          > Two disciples Luk 24:13-15
                          > Simon Peter Luk 24:34
                          > Ten Apostles Jhn 20:19, 24
                          > Apostles at Sea of Galilee Jhn 21:1
                          > Apostles in Galilee Mat 28:16, 17
                          > 600 Brethren 1Cr 15:6
                          > Paul 1Cr 15:8
                          > James 1Cr 15:7
                          >
                          >
                          > In Christ,
                          > barb
                        • Sinclair Stable
                          Message: 22 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:54:03 -0000 From: powerdog68 Subject: Re: Thanks Barb Barb, misrepresenting old WT s, doesn t excuse you for promoting
                          Message 12 of 22 , Sep 3, 2004
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Message: 22
                            Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:54:03 -0000
                            From: powerdog68
                            Subject: Re: Thanks Barb

                            Barb, misrepresenting old WT's, doesn't excuse you for promoting and
                            supporting lying.
                            =====================

                            powerdog,

                            This entire conversation started regarding a person that was leaving
                            the WT for the man Christ Jesus in heaven, and all the worry they had
                            of the WT elder arrangement threatening to appear before a judicial
                            committee if they did not hand in their reports & time sheets. For if
                            the reports did not come in... the elders would "come a calling on them".

                            The group In Christ is still helping that person regarding this matter
                            on another list. And that person, is not the only one in this situation.

                            There are people reading this list right now, and find your approach
                            regarding this matter "typical" of those serving the organization.
                            That was the entire reason of sending those messages to this list.
                            I do believe that you have proven our point. I thank you for helping us.

                            Are you upset the "authentic record" of the WT ministry works may not
                            be accurate? Let me assure you powerdog, those records are of little
                            importance, the WT records are part of the "world's system of things",
                            its just an earthly corperation anyway. His Word is the only thing that
                            will not pass away, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words
                            shall not pass away." (Matt 24:35, Luke 21:33, Isa 40:8). \o/

                            If anyone sticks a number in that is not accurate...
                            that falsehood is between God and that person...
                            its none of mans (you or the WT's) business.
                            It's just that Simple. <g>



                            Dear readers,
                            Does mans worldly record matter to Christ who knows all that is being
                            done on earth? Are the "Elders" of the WT entitled to know or stop
                            anyone from following Jehovah's new covenant arrangement by them
                            going to the man Christ Jesus as their only mediator and way to slavation?

                            ~of course not

                            Truly, it's only God's business regarding peoples salvation & relationship
                            with Him, NOT the watchtower society's, or any of those who are in it.
                            WT is not God, nor will they ever be, nor have they ever been given
                            authority.

                            We have one mediator the man Christ Jesus, and He alone is appointed.
                            Also, its acceptable to God that we serve Jesus. The Father also calls us
                            to fellowship with His Son Lord Jesus Christ.\o/

                            1Cor 1:9
                            God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship
                            with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
                            1Ti 2:3-6
                            For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour
                            (Isa 43:11, Tts 3:6); Who will have all men to be saved, and to
                            come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God,
                            and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
                            Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
                            Rom 14:17-18
                            For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
                            and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he that in these things
                            serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

                            NOTE: Apostle Paul new Christ and the other 12, He wrote this
                            some 30 years after the bodily resurection of the man Jesus Christ:

                            "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
                            THE MAN Christ Jesus" (not the spirit creature michael)...

                            "For he (whosoever) that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable
                            to God, and approved of men."

                            If the WT takes issue of anyone not "serving or working" for the
                            orgainization, and of that person "serving and Christ Jesus" ...
                            that means the WT is not of God.

                            If the WT takes issue with anyone leaving the orgainization for
                            the man Christ Jesus, again -the WT is not of God.

                            That shows, "by their fruitage" they are not of God, they have
                            set themselves up "between" God and man in the postion that
                            only belongs to our Lord, the man Christ Jesus.

                            God shows His people who apostates are, thus people leave
                            the apostates:

                            God tells us an Apostate is...
                            One who has left the doctrine of Christ -2Jo 9-11

                            False anointed ones, teaching an invisible
                            secret presence of Jesus Christ (1914) -Matt 24:23-27

                            Anyone coming on the basis of Jesus' name, setting themsleves
                            up in His place as saviour, (come to the org for salvation)
                            -Matt 24:5, Matt 24:24, Acts 4:12

                            Ones teaching that the day of Jehovah and the presence of Christ
                            were already here, setting up an earthly system exulted above all
                            as only one/s -2Th 2:1-5

                            Any that by "by their fruitage" are false prophets - Mat 7:15, Mat 24:11,
                            Mat 24:24, Mar 13:22, Luk 6:26, 2Pe 2:1, 1Jo 4:1
                            http://blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html


                            Is it any business of the wt elders/ the society in general that people
                            leave the Watchtower Society and orgainization because they listened
                            to God and places all their trust and faith in the man Christ Jesus as
                            Jehovah God arranged?

                            Is it any business of the wt elders / the socitey in general that people
                            leave the wt and "serve Christ alone" not the org.....
                            for truly, its acceptable to God we serve the man Christ Jesus,
                            and of certain this is the only way, truth and life in coming to the Father!
                            John 14:6-7

                            This is a faithful saying, this is approved and acceptable to God...
                            ----> believe, have faith, and serve the man Christ Jesus your mediator.
                            He alone is the door and has the keys to the kingdom. \o/
                            (John ch 10, John ch 14, Acts 4:10-12, Rev 1:17-18)

                            What right has any man/women to judge the blessed faithful going
                            to the Son of God, the man Christ Jesus who is sited at the right hand
                            of the Father ?

                            The slaves to the Watchtower Society, and their followers have
                            absolutely no authority over anyone. The Watchtower Society
                            "the visible org" is just part of this "worlds system of things"

                            Therefor, there is no condemnation in Christ (Rom ch 8)
                            Who can disapprove what God approves? -No one.-

                            (NWT) Isaiah 43:11
                            "I - I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior."

                            Isa 43:3; Isa 12:2; Isa 45:21,22; Deu 6:4; Hsa 1:7; Hsa 13:4;
                            Luk 1:47; Luk 2:11; Jhn 10:28-30; Act 4:12; Tts 2:10,13;
                            Tts 3:4-6; 2Pe 3:18; 1Jo 4:14; 1Jo 5:20,21; Jud 1:25;
                            Rev 1:11,17,18; Rev 7:10-12

                            Jesus said:
                            "be not faithless, but believing."
                            "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."

                            be blessed, In Christ our Savior,
                            barb
                          • powerdog68
                            Well Barbylon, you just heap lie upon lie. Name one individual that has ever appeared before a judicial committe for not reporting time? Also please show us
                            Message 13 of 22 , Sep 3, 2004
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                              Well Barbylon, you just heap lie upon lie. Name one individual that
                              has ever appeared before a judicial committe for not reporting time?
                              Also please show us where not reporting sevice time is considered a
                              judicial matter. Do you know what would happen if elders were so
                              stupid as to try and make not reporting any field service a judicial
                              matter? They would be removed as elders.
                              And once again you justify the encourgement to lie, and then try to
                              make the issue the WT again. It's the WT's fault that you good
                              Christians are having to encourage others to lie.

                              And quit trying to call into question our records. As the Journal of
                              Contemporary Religion reports, "The question is: are Witness
                              statistics reliable? There are three excellent and independent reasons
                              to trust them. First, as will be seen, they often report "bad
                              news"¬ódeclines as well as increases in membership. A second reason is
                              that even very critical ex-members, who accuse Witness leaders of many
                              sins, accept and publish these statistics (cf. Penton, 1985; Botting &
                              Botting, 1984). Finally, the statistics stand up very solidly when
                              compared with the Canadian Census and the American National Survey of
                              Religious Identification."



                              --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
                              <sincink@i...> wrote:
                              > Message: 22
                              > Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:54:03 -0000
                              > From: powerdog68
                              > Subject: Re: Thanks Barb
                              >
                              > Barb, misrepresenting old WT's, doesn't excuse you for promoting and
                              > supporting lying.
                              > =====================
                              >
                              > powerdog,
                              >
                              > This entire conversation started regarding a person that was leaving
                              > the WT for the man Christ Jesus in heaven, and all the worry they had
                              > of the WT elder arrangement threatening to appear before a judicial
                              > committee if they did not hand in their reports & time sheets. For if
                              > the reports did not come in... the elders would "come a calling on
                              them".
                              >
                              > The group In Christ is still helping that person regarding this matter
                              > on another list. And that person, is not the only one in this
                              situation.
                              >
                              > There are people reading this list right now, and find your approach
                              > regarding this matter "typical" of those serving the organization.
                              > That was the entire reason of sending those messages to this list.
                              > I do believe that you have proven our point. I thank you for
                              helping us.
                              >
                              > Are you upset the "authentic record" of the WT ministry works may not
                              > be accurate? Let me assure you powerdog, those records are of little
                              > importance, the WT records are part of the "world's system of things",
                              > its just an earthly corperation anyway. His Word is the only thing that
                              > will not pass away, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words
                              > shall not pass away." (Matt 24:35, Luke 21:33, Isa 40:8). \o/
                              >
                              > If anyone sticks a number in that is not accurate...
                              > that falsehood is between God and that person...
                              > its none of mans (you or the WT's) business.
                              > It's just that Simple. <g>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear readers,
                              > Does mans worldly record matter to Christ who knows all that is being
                              > done on earth? Are the "Elders" of the WT entitled to know or stop
                              > anyone from following Jehovah's new covenant arrangement by them
                              > going to the man Christ Jesus as their only mediator and way to
                              slavation?
                              >
                              > ~of course not
                              >
                              > Truly, it's only God's business regarding peoples salvation &
                              relationship
                              > with Him, NOT the watchtower society's, or any of those who are in it.
                              > WT is not God, nor will they ever be, nor have they ever been given
                              > authority.
                              >
                              > We have one mediator the man Christ Jesus, and He alone is appointed.
                              > Also, its acceptable to God that we serve Jesus. The Father also
                              calls us
                              > to fellowship with His Son Lord Jesus Christ.\o/
                              >
                              > 1Cor 1:9
                              > God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship
                              > with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
                              > 1Ti 2:3-6
                              > For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour
                              > (Isa 43:11, Tts 3:6); Who will have all men to be saved, and to
                              > come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God,
                              > and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
                              > Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
                              > Rom 14:17-18
                              > For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
                              > and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he that in these things
                              > serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
                              >
                              > NOTE: Apostle Paul new Christ and the other 12, He wrote this
                              > some 30 years after the bodily resurection of the man Jesus Christ:
                              >
                              > "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
                              > THE MAN Christ Jesus" (not the spirit creature michael)...
                              >
                              > "For he (whosoever) that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable
                              > to God, and approved of men."
                              >
                              > If the WT takes issue of anyone not "serving or working" for the
                              > orgainization, and of that person "serving and Christ Jesus" ...
                              > that means the WT is not of God.
                              >
                              > If the WT takes issue with anyone leaving the orgainization for
                              > the man Christ Jesus, again -the WT is not of God.
                              >
                              > That shows, "by their fruitage" they are not of God, they have
                              > set themselves up "between" God and man in the postion that
                              > only belongs to our Lord, the man Christ Jesus.
                              >
                              > God shows His people who apostates are, thus people leave
                              > the apostates:
                              >
                              > God tells us an Apostate is...
                              > One who has left the doctrine of Christ -2Jo 9-11
                              >
                              > False anointed ones, teaching an invisible
                              > secret presence of Jesus Christ (1914) -Matt 24:23-27
                              >
                              > Anyone coming on the basis of Jesus' name, setting themsleves
                              > up in His place as saviour, (come to the org for salvation)
                              > -Matt 24:5, Matt 24:24, Acts 4:12
                              >
                              > Ones teaching that the day of Jehovah and the presence of Christ
                              > were already here, setting up an earthly system exulted above all
                              > as only one/s -2Th 2:1-5
                              >
                              > Any that by "by their fruitage" are false prophets - Mat 7:15, Mat
                              24:11,
                              > Mat 24:24, Mar 13:22, Luk 6:26, 2Pe 2:1, 1Jo 4:1
                              > http://blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html
                              >
                              >
                              > Is it any business of the wt elders/ the society in general that people
                              > leave the Watchtower Society and orgainization because they listened
                              > to God and places all their trust and faith in the man Christ Jesus as
                              > Jehovah God arranged?
                              >
                              > Is it any business of the wt elders / the socitey in general that people
                              > leave the wt and "serve Christ alone" not the org.....
                              > for truly, its acceptable to God we serve the man Christ Jesus,
                              > and of certain this is the only way, truth and life in coming to the
                              Father!
                              > John 14:6-7
                              >
                              > This is a faithful saying, this is approved and acceptable to God...
                              > ----> believe, have faith, and serve the man Christ Jesus your mediator.
                              > He alone is the door and has the keys to the kingdom. \o/
                              > (John ch 10, John ch 14, Acts 4:10-12, Rev 1:17-18)
                              >
                              > What right has any man/women to judge the blessed faithful going
                              > to the Son of God, the man Christ Jesus who is sited at the right hand
                              > of the Father ?
                              >
                              > The slaves to the Watchtower Society, and their followers have
                              > absolutely no authority over anyone. The Watchtower Society
                              > "the visible org" is just part of this "worlds system of things"
                              >
                              > Therefor, there is no condemnation in Christ (Rom ch 8)
                              > Who can disapprove what God approves? -No one.-
                              >
                              > (NWT) Isaiah 43:11
                              > "I - I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior."
                              >
                              > Isa 43:3; Isa 12:2; Isa 45:21,22; Deu 6:4; Hsa 1:7; Hsa 13:4;
                              > Luk 1:47; Luk 2:11; Jhn 10:28-30; Act 4:12; Tts 2:10,13;
                              > Tts 3:4-6; 2Pe 3:18; 1Jo 4:14; 1Jo 5:20,21; Jud 1:25;
                              > Rev 1:11,17,18; Rev 7:10-12
                              >
                              > Jesus said:
                              > "be not faithless, but believing."
                              > "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
                              >
                              > be blessed, In Christ our Savior,
                              > barb
                            • Sinclair Stable
                              Message: 14 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 21:14:13 -0000 From: powerdog68 Subject: Re: Thanks Barb Well Barbylon, you just heap lie upon lie. Name one individual that
                              Message 14 of 22 , Sep 5, 2004
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Message: 14
                                Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 21:14:13 -0000
                                From: powerdog68
                                Subject: Re: Thanks Barb

                                Well Barbylon, you just heap lie upon lie. Name one individual that
                                has ever appeared before a judicial committe for not reporting time?
                                Also please show us where not reporting sevice time is considered a
                                judicial matter. Do you know what would happen if elders were so
                                stupid as to try and make not reporting any field service a judicial
                                matter? They would be removed as elders.
                                And once again you justify the encourgement to lie, and then try to
                                make the issue the WT again. It's the WT's fault that you good
                                Christians are having to encourage others to lie.

                                And quit trying to call into question our records. As the Journal of
                                Contemporary Religion reports, "The question is: are Witness
                                statistics reliable? There are three excellent and independent reasons
                                to trust them. First, as will be seen, they often report "bad
                                news"-declines as well as increases in membership. A second reason is
                                that even very critical ex-members, who accuse Witness leaders of many
                                sins, accept and publish these statistics (cf. Penton, 1985; Botting &
                                Botting, 1984). Finally, the statistics stand up very solidly when
                                compared with the Canadian Census and the American National Survey of
                                Religious Identification."
                                ==============================


                                Get a load off and come to the Lord powerdog.
                                and you wonder why people leave for Christ Jesus.

                                I like the NWT version of this:
                                Mat 11:29-30
                                "Come to me, all YOU who are toiling and loaded down,
                                and I will refresh YOU. Take my yoke upon YOU and
                                learn from me, for I am mild-tempered and lowly in heart,
                                and YOU will find refreshment for YOUR souls.
                                For my yoke is kindly and my load is light."

                                *** come to Jesus *** learn from Jesus *** He will refresh YOU***
                                For He is mild-temperd, His yoke is kindly, His load is light and
                                He has refreshment. I like that... with a very light load that He
                                will even help you carry and its mild with you as your in Him,
                                dwelling inside refreshing our souls. Amen

                                I like that, all YOU who are burdened down, Come to Jesus \o/

                                I wrote:
                                > This entire conversation started regarding a person that was leaving
                                > the WT for the man Christ Jesus in heaven, and all the worry they had
                                > of the WT elder arrangement threatening to appear before a judicial
                                > committee if they did not hand in their reports & time sheets. For if
                                > the reports did not come in... the elders would "come a calling on
                                them".


                                The "elders would come a calling on them".
                                The elders have no busness doing that, period.
                                And BTW, they did, and there was help for the
                                new member In Christ. \o/

                                powerdog, the simple message is, no matter what you say,
                                it really doesn't matter. You or the slaves to the WT and the
                                congregation hierarchy has no authority over anyone at all.
                                They don't have authority, never had it.
                                Who do you think you are? ---> God? ~of course you don't. <g>

                                Rom ch 14
                                "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
                                and peace, and joy IN the Holy Spirit. For he (whosoever) that in these
                                things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men."

                                If you or WT do not approve of people leaving the WT Corporation
                                and going to their mediator, the man Jesus Christ for a relationship
                                with Him, learning from Him and not the WT ....
                                ***GOD DOES APPROVE***
                                so who cares what you or the WT think or have to say about it?
                                I'm sorry if this upsets you, but that is ***HIS*** point. \o/
                                John 14:6-7

                                In Christ,
                                barb



                                --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
                                <sincink@i...> wrote:
                                > Message: 22
                                > Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:54:03 -0000
                                > From: powerdog68
                                > Subject: Re: Thanks Barb
                                >
                                > Barb, misrepresenting old WT's, doesn't excuse you for promoting and
                                > supporting lying.
                                > =====================
                                >
                                > powerdog,
                                >
                                > This entire conversation started regarding a person that was leaving
                                > the WT for the man Christ Jesus in heaven, and all the worry they had
                                > of the WT elder arrangement threatening to appear before a judicial
                                > committee if they did not hand in their reports & time sheets. For if
                                > the reports did not come in... the elders would "come a calling on
                                them".
                                >
                                > The group In Christ is still helping that person regarding this matter
                                > on another list. And that person, is not the only one in this
                                situation.
                                >
                                > There are people reading this list right now, and find your approach
                                > regarding this matter "typical" of those serving the organization.
                                > That was the entire reason of sending those messages to this list.
                                > I do believe that you have proven our point. I thank you for
                                helping us.
                                >
                                > Are you upset the "authentic record" of the WT ministry works may not
                                > be accurate? Let me assure you powerdog, those records are of little
                                > importance, the WT records are part of the "world's system of things",
                                > its just an earthly corperation anyway. His Word is the only thing that
                                > will not pass away, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words
                                > shall not pass away." (Matt 24:35, Luke 21:33, Isa 40:8). \o/
                                >
                                > If anyone sticks a number in that is not accurate...
                                > that falsehood is between God and that person...
                                > its none of mans (you or the WT's) business.
                                > It's just that Simple. <g>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Dear readers,
                                > Does mans worldly record matter to Christ who knows all that is being
                                > done on earth? Are the "Elders" of the WT entitled to know or stop
                                > anyone from following Jehovah's new covenant arrangement by them
                                > going to the man Christ Jesus as their only mediator and way to
                                slavation?
                                >
                                > ~of course not
                                >
                                > Truly, it's only God's business regarding peoples salvation &
                                relationship
                                > with Him, NOT the watchtower society's, or any of those who are in it.
                                > WT is not God, nor will they ever be, nor have they ever been given
                                > authority.
                                >
                                > We have one mediator the man Christ Jesus, and He alone is appointed.
                                > Also, its acceptable to God that we serve Jesus. The Father also
                                calls us
                                > to fellowship with His Son Lord Jesus Christ.\o/
                                >
                                > 1Cor 1:9
                                > God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship
                                > with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
                                > 1Ti 2:3-6
                                > For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour
                                > (Isa 43:11, Tts 3:6); Who will have all men to be saved, and to
                                > come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God,
                                > and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
                                > Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
                                > Rom 14:17-18
                                > For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness,
                                > and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. For he that in these things
                                > serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
                                >
                                > NOTE: Apostle Paul new Christ and the other 12, He wrote this
                                > some 30 years after the bodily resurection of the man Jesus Christ:
                                >
                                > "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
                                > THE MAN Christ Jesus" (not the spirit creature michael)...
                                >
                                > "For he (whosoever) that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable
                                > to God, and approved of men."
                                >
                                > If the WT takes issue of anyone not "serving or working" for the
                                > orgainization, and of that person "serving and Christ Jesus" ...
                                > that means the WT is not of God.
                                >
                                > If the WT takes issue with anyone leaving the orgainization for
                                > the man Christ Jesus, again -the WT is not of God.
                                >
                                > That shows, "by their fruitage" they are not of God, they have
                                > set themselves up "between" God and man in the postion that
                                > only belongs to our Lord, the man Christ Jesus.
                                >
                                > God shows His people who apostates are, thus people leave
                                > the apostates:
                                >
                                > God tells us an Apostate is...
                                > One who has left the doctrine of Christ -2Jo 9-11
                                >
                                > False anointed ones, teaching an invisible
                                > secret presence of Jesus Christ (1914) -Matt 24:23-27
                                >
                                > Anyone coming on the basis of Jesus' name, setting themsleves
                                > up in His place as saviour, (come to the org for salvation)
                                > -Matt 24:5, Matt 24:24, Acts 4:12
                                >
                                > Ones teaching that the day of Jehovah and the presence of Christ
                                > were already here, setting up an earthly system exulted above all
                                > as only one/s -2Th 2:1-5
                                >
                                > Any that by "by their fruitage" are false prophets - Mat 7:15, Mat
                                24:11,
                                > Mat 24:24, Mar 13:22, Luk 6:26, 2Pe 2:1, 1Jo 4:1
                                > http://blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html
                                >
                                >
                                > Is it any business of the wt elders/ the society in general that people
                                > leave the Watchtower Society and orgainization because they listened
                                > to God and places all their trust and faith in the man Christ Jesus as
                                > Jehovah God arranged?
                                >
                                > Is it any business of the wt elders / the socitey in general that people
                                > leave the wt and "serve Christ alone" not the org.....
                                > for truly, its acceptable to God we serve the man Christ Jesus,
                                > and of certain this is the only way, truth and life in coming to the
                                Father!
                                > John 14:6-7
                                >
                                > This is a faithful saying, this is approved and acceptable to God...
                                > ----> believe, have faith, and serve the man Christ Jesus your mediator.
                                > He alone is the door and has the keys to the kingdom. \o/
                                > (John ch 10, John ch 14, Acts 4:10-12, Rev 1:17-18)
                                >
                                > What right has any man/women to judge the blessed faithful going
                                > to the Son of God, the man Christ Jesus who is sited at the right hand
                                > of the Father ?
                                >
                                > The slaves to the Watchtower Society, and their followers have
                                > absolutely no authority over anyone. The Watchtower Society
                                > "the visible org" is just part of this "worlds system of things"
                                >
                                > Therefor, there is no condemnation in Christ (Rom ch 8)
                                > Who can disapprove what God approves? -No one.-
                                >
                                > (NWT) Isaiah 43:11
                                > "I - I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior."
                                >
                                > Isa 43:3; Isa 12:2; Isa 45:21,22; Deu 6:4; Hsa 1:7; Hsa 13:4;
                                > Luk 1:47; Luk 2:11; Jhn 10:28-30; Act 4:12; Tts 2:10,13;
                                > Tts 3:4-6; 2Pe 3:18; 1Jo 4:14; 1Jo 5:20,21; Jud 1:25;
                                > Rev 1:11,17,18; Rev 7:10-12
                                >
                                > Jesus said:
                                > "be not faithless, but believing."
                                > "blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
                                >
                                > be blessed, In Christ our Savior,
                                > barb





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Sinclair Stable
                                Message: 11 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:00 -0000 From: powerdog68 Subject: Re: Barbylon the Great? Just as her role model, the Great Harlot, Barbylon uses all
                                Message 15 of 22 , Sep 6, 2004
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                                  Message: 11
                                  Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:40:00 -0000
                                  From: powerdog68
                                  Subject: Re: Barbylon the Great?

                                  Just as her role model, the Great Harlot, Barbylon uses all manner of
                                  dishonesty to attack those following Christ. Here is an example.

                                  "Today, Floyd Erwin as senior man because of that WT failed prophesy
                                  has no children or grandchildren of his own. Floyd also talks about
                                  the internet."

                                  One, the WT has had no failed prophecy. In order for that to have
                                  happened, they would have had to make a prophesy, which they have
                                  never done. Despite her repeated assertion to the contrary, Barbylon
                                  has never been able to show us one. Even some of her fellow opposers
                                  on this board have had to finally admit they they had never actually
                                  done so. Secondly, what does a nonexistent prophecy have to do with
                                  whether or not this man had kids or grand-kids? Absolutely nothing.
                                  Like so many in the world today, nothing is ever these peoples fault.
                                  All their problems and regrets are someoneone elses fault. Why do the
                                  majority of Witnesses of Floyds generation have children and
                                  grandchildren? I'd like that question answered.
                                  ================================================



                                  powerdog,
                                  The JW's of Floyds gen were told not to marry if they were pioneering,
                                  not to have children because this "wicked system was soon to be over"
                                  and why have the burdon of family and children. It would just get in
                                  the way of the ministry work. powerdog this is common.

                                  powerdog, did you even listen to Floyd's testimony?
                                  He is has come forward and given his name to the public and his
                                  email address. To me I must respect the man for being forthright
                                  and not hiding. With the more people I test and check out the
                                  history of the WT its not all rosy in Christ with the way the slaves
                                  directed their "domestics". Its very easy to contact him and
                                  have a wonderful conversation. He has nothing to hide powerdog. <g>

                                  Today I emailed your thoughts to him, and a link to read this site.
                                  He may or may not join. I also requested that your name and this
                                  web link to our cozy yahoo group go out to all his friends In Christ
                                  and place you on their prayer list. I hope some of them join this list,
                                  if not, they can read your posts on this public chat.

                                  Floyd Erwin (1999)
                                  Out Of The Watchtower: Into The Family Of God
                                  Floyd was an active Jehovah's Witness for 26 years
                                  and left the organization in 1970.
                                  Email Floyd at erwin122@...
                                  Click here to listen to Floyd's testimony:
                                  http://www.towertotruth.net/Audiofiles/floyd_erwin.m3u


                                  powedog,
                                  I have been posting a link from Blue Letter Bible on this site for over
                                  3 months now. Why do you refuses to even look at it? Is it because
                                  you can't refute it.
                                  All it is ---> is...
                                  God's channel of communication saying "they shall know that a prophet
                                  was among them" and that prophets fruitage in scans.
                                  Is that "apostate" material, your own stuff ?

                                  you said:
                                  --"they would have had to make a prophesy, which they have never done."--

                                  This expose most certainly proves that they have made them and they are
                                  "false prophets". powerdog, are you leashed to the false prophets?
                                  God said the false prophet and all its followers are one in the same.

                                  If your angry, you should be angry at the slave for putting you in this
                                  position
                                  with God. Not me for listening to God and fleeing from the false prophets.
                                  That is one of the reason's why I could never become a JW. That is one of
                                  the
                                  reason's why I tell people about the false prophets. The wrath of God
                                  remains
                                  on them and all who follow them. Ezekiel 14:10, Jer. 23:16, 26, 34
                                  Jesus said great will be the fall of it (Matt ch 24)

                                  I certainly hope your not afraid to look into it, and all the readers here.
                                  God tells us do not fear the false prophets (Deu 18:22). That was such
                                  a blessing for those who had to sit in front of a judicial committee when
                                  they discovered they were in a false prophet org.
                                  "do not fear them" ----> Isn't that great, no fear of the elders, God is
                                  on our side. :o))

                                  See the authentic scans from the false prophets and heed the warning of God.
                                  http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/index.html

                                  Deuteronomy 18:20-22 / Matthew 7:15-20

                                  In checking what the Watchtower Society prophesied,
                                  we find they meet the standards of a false prophet.
                                  False prophets are condemned in the Scriptures and
                                  we are told to flee from them.

                                  1 Kings 13. . . . . . . . condemned to die
                                  Ezekiel 14:10 . . . . . . punishment of prophet and seekers the same
                                  Rev. 19:20, 20:10 . . . . cast into the Lake of Fire
                                  Jer. 23:16, 26, 34. . . . Punish the man and his house
                                  Zeph. 3:1-4 . . . . . . . Prophets light and treacherous
                                  Zech. 13:1-7 . . . . . . Shall say I am no prophet



                                  In Christ,
                                  barb




                                  --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair Stable"
                                  <sincink@i...> wrote:
                                  > Message: 9
                                  > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:13:24 -0000
                                  > From: powerdog68
                                  > Subject: Barbylon the Great?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > You nailed it Rob.
                                  > ======================
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > no, all mankind nailed and it was Him to the tree.
                                  >
                                  > And your, along with all unbelievers as yourself, are still
                                  > nailing Him (just a Saul, the man to be Paul persicuted Him)
                                  > by denying Him today, and spreading the false gospel message.
                                  >
                                  > A dear friend of mine In Christ called himself an "Apostle of denial"
                                  > remembering the years 26 years he spent in the WTBTS. From the
                                  > early part of WW2 till 1970. He shares his own personal experiences
                                  > in the organization. He loves all JW's. He spent 5 years in prison for
                                  > the WT policies. He taught in the pioneer service out of the "Children
                                  > book"
                                  > In that book there was a couple called John and Eunice. The couple
                                  in the
                                  > book agreed to defer their marriage until after Armageddon, thus did not
                                  > have children. Today, Floyd Erwin as senior man because of that WT
                                  > failed prophesy has no children or grandchildren of his own. Floyd
                                  also
                                  > talks about the internet.
                                  >
                                  > http://www.towertotruth.net/audio.htm
                                  > Floyd Erwin (1999)
                                  > Out Of The Watchtower: Into The Family Of God
                                  > Floyd was an active Jehovah's Witness for 26 years
                                  > and left the organization in 1970.
                                  > Email Floyd at erwin122@c...
                                  > Click here to listen to Floyd's testimony:
                                  > http://www.towertotruth.net/Audiofiles/floyd_erwin.m3u
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > -
                                  > -
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Resurrection of Jesus
                                  > The Current Teaching Of The Watchtower Society:
                                  > Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in the physical resurrection of
                                  Jesus.
                                  > They believe he took on different bodies, and was a spirit. The WTBTS
                                  > publications teach that Jesus was not given human life again because
                                  > that would mean he was taking back His ransom.
                                  >
                                  > What the Bible Says about RESURRECTION OF JESUS:
                                  >
                                  > Facts about the body & the Resurrection of Jesus
                                  > Ransom paid was Christ's blood, not His body Hbr 9:14, 20
                                  > Shed His blood Hbr 9:22
                                  > Purchased with His blood Act 20:28
                                  > Flesh and blood cannot enter God's Kingdom 1Cr 15:50
                                  > "It is I myself, a spirit hath not flesh and bones," then He ate Luk
                                  > 24:36-43
                                  > Thomas touched Jesus' wounds and said, "My Lord and my God Jhn 20:27, 28
                                  > Jesus said He would raise His own body Jhn 2:19-21
                                  >
                                  > Scripture record states, Jesus raised PHYSICALLY from the dead:
                                  > He will return as He left Act 1:9-11
                                  > Antichrist denies Jesus is coming in the flesh 2Jo 1:7
                                  > If Christ has not been raised our faith is in vain 1Cr 15:14, 17
                                  > Believe in your heart that Christ was raised from the dead Rom 10:9
                                  > God raised Jesus from the dead Act 2:24
                                  > Jesus raised His own body, SOMA ......
                                  > Soma = Greek word for tangible physical body Jhn 2:19-21; 10:18
                                  > The Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead Rom 8:11
                                  >
                                  > The physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ is confirmed as fact:
                                  > The empty tomb Jhn 20:1-9
                                  > Angelic testimony Mat 28:5-7
                                  > His enemies Mat 28:11
                                  >
                                  > More confirmation came after Jesus resurrection -Eyewitnesses saw Him:
                                  > Mary Magdalene Mar 16:9
                                  > Other women Mat 28:9
                                  > Two disciples Luk 24:13-15
                                  > Simon Peter Luk 24:34
                                  > Ten Apostles Jhn 20:19, 24
                                  > Apostles at Sea of Galilee Jhn 21:1
                                  > Apostles in Galilee Mat 28:16, 17
                                  > 600 Brethren 1Cr 15:6
                                  > Paul 1Cr 15:8
                                  > James 1Cr 15:7
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In Christ,
                                  > barb
                                • powerdog68
                                  The JW s of Floyds gen were told not to marry if they were pioneering, not to have children because this wicked system was soon to be over and why have the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Sep 6, 2004
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                                    "The JW's of Floyds gen were told not to marry if they were
                                    pioneering, not to have children because this "wicked system was soon
                                    to be over" and why have the burdon of family and children. It would
                                    just get in the way of the ministry work. powerdog this is common."

                                    The JW's of Floyds generation? In case you forgot Barb, I, and also
                                    Mark, are 4th generations JWs. My father was baptized at 16 and has
                                    been a JW for 50 years. He was never told to not marry and have kids.
                                    My mother was never told that. My granmothers on both sides of my
                                    family were never told that. My great grandmother was never told that.
                                    How do you explain all the JW's of Floyd's Generation that are
                                    married and have childeren and grandchildren? What did the WT say in
                                    regards marrying? They REPEATED the advice of the Apostle Paul, who
                                    telling the Corinthians that marriage was no sin, being single had
                                    benifits, such more freedom to spend focused on spiritual things and
                                    less anxiety. How do call yourself a Christian and then turn around
                                    and bad mouth scriptural advice?

                                    1Co 7:8 Now I say to the unmarried persons and the widows, it is
                                    well for them that they remain even as I am.

                                    1Co 7:28 But even if you did marry, you would commit no sin. And if
                                    a virgin [person] married, such one would commit no sin. However,
                                    those who do will have tribulation in their flesh. But I am sparing YOU.
                                    1Co 7:32 Indeed, I want YOU to be free from anxiety. The unmarried
                                    man is anxious for the things of the Lord, how he may gain the Lord's
                                    approval.
                                    1Co 7:33 But the married man is anxious for the things of the world,
                                    how he may gain the approval of his wife,
                                    1Co 7:34 and he is divided. Further, the unmarried woman, and the
                                    virgin, is anxious for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy
                                    both in her body and in her spirit. However, the married woman is
                                    anxious for the things of the world, how she may gain the approval of
                                    her husband.
                                    1Co 7:35 But this I am saying for YOUR personal advantage, not that
                                    I may cast a noose upon YOU, but to move YOU to that which is
                                    becoming and that which means constant attendance upon the Lord
                                    without distraction.
                                    1Co 7:36 But if anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his
                                    virginity, if that is past the bloom of youth, and this is the way
                                    it should take place, let him do what he wants; he does not sin.
                                    Let them marry.
                                    1Co 7:37 But if anyone stands settled in his heart, having no
                                    necessity, but has authority over his own will and has made this
                                    decision in his own heart, to keep his own virginity, he will do well.
                                    1Co 7:38 Consequently he also that gives his virginity in marriage
                                    does well, but he that does not give it in marriage will do better.
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