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Re: [Jehovah's Witnesses Gathering] Re: Look! He is in the inner chambers DO NOT BELIEVE IT

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  • Teresa
    Russ Jesus Christs congregation is world-wide. It is know as the body of Christ. When Jesus return the wheat from the chaff will be separated. Jesus has
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 1, 2004
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      Russ Jesus Christs' congregation is world-wide. It is know as the body of Christ. When Jesus return the wheat from the chaff will be separated. Jesus has disciples all over the world. Jesus disciples are not limited to one organization known as the WTBTS. Jesus organization is the body of believers, the body of christ.

      Russ <ditchbilly@...> wrote:Once again you rant Teresa but you give no evidence to support your
      claim.Would you care to point out some particular Witness viewpoints
      that you do not think are supported by the bible itself?If you'll
      notice(contrary to your claims)Witness literature ALWAYS gives plenty
      of scripture reference to back up what they say.One thing taught by
      Christ that you seem to overlook is the fact that the ONE true
      Christian congregation is recognized by their deeds.Not individuals
      among all congregations but the ONE true congregation itself.
      The original Christian congregation that was established by Christ
      were united as ONE with identical teachings and beliefs.







      --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, Teresa
      <eternity39us@y...> wrote:
      > Russ in all you said. you failed to realize one thing, there's a
      difference between Christendom and true christians. See the problem
      is the WTBTS tries to lump true christians into Christendom.
      Everyone who profess to be christians are not. You will know true
      christians by their fruits. True christians follow the example set
      before us by Jesus Christ. We follow his teachings.
      >
      > I think that's where you are misguided. Not only you but all who
      are associates of the WTBTS organization. Men do a lot of things in
      the name of Jesus thinking they are doing a service to God, when in
      fact they are not.
      >
      > You can tell by ones deads who they belong to.
      >
      > Russ <ditchbilly@y...> wrote:
      > You used the word contrast out of context.If you had said something
      > like;"Witnesses believe that Christ was the messiah yet Jews do
      > not"that would be a contrast.Also can you provide some proof that
      > Christ will return visibly?
      > One other point:Most other so called "Christian" religions such as
      > the Catholics,Baptists and Lutherans where not prosecuted or
      > persecuted at all in Nazi Germany because they where willing to put
      > aside jehovah's laws and worship Adolph Hitler.All the while using
      > the cheap excuse that it's "for the good of the church".Now that's
      a
      > contrast!
      >
      > Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia:the free encyclopedia online
      under
      > Adolph Hitler.Notice how Witnesses are the only religion mentioned?
      > That is because they where the only ones(with a few exceptions) who
      > would not throw away their Christian values and suck up to Hitler
      and
      > his henchmen.Oh yes by the way I do remember just a few years back
      > seeing something on the evening news about the Catholic church
      > appologizing to the Jews for trying to convince Hitler that
      > exterminating the Jews was a noble cause.Another contradiction.
      >
      > The Holocaust refers to the Nazis' systematic extermination
      > of "undesirables" in concentration camps. Jews were primarily
      > targeted, though many others were murdered in the camps, as well:
      > communists, homosexuals, gypsies, the physically handicapped, the
      > mentally retarded, Soviet prisoners of war, the Polish
      > intelligentsia, Jehovah's Witnesses, anti-Nazi clergy and trade
      > unionists, psychiatric patients, and even common criminals all
      > perished alongside one another in the camps.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, Teresa
      > <eternity39us@y...> wrote:
      > > All the links you provided here is very good information. Anyone
      > is at risk for being treated badly because of their religious
      beliefs.
      > >
      > > I will tell you what the JW's and the Jews have in common, the
      > misconception of Jesus Christ. Some Jews are still waiting for
      the
      > Messiah, while the JW's don't believe he will return visibly. What
      a
      > contrast!
      > >
      > > Russ <ditchbilly@y...> wrote:
      > > Sorry y'all! Haven't been around much lately.After viewing this
      > load
      > > of plop I'm glad I haven't been.-Russ
      > >
      > > Trivia:What do Jews and Witnesses have in common?Here's a whole
      > bunch
      > > of them.
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.php?ModuleId=10005394
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/document.php?
      RefId=19984X2F
      > >
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/testimony.php?
      RefId=RWJ0775M
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/testimony.php?
      RefId=FWF0278M
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/testimony.php?
      RefId=RWE0774M
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/artifact.php?
      RefId=1998DN17
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/12258?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/12261?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=68362B
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/6111?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=68370
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=68369
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=68381
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=80414
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=02553
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=90787
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=68373
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/photo.php?RefId=68374
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/12270?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/8698?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/4113?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/uia-cgi/uia_doc/photos/4114?hr=null
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/lcmedia/viewer/wlc/document.php?
      RefId=19984X2F
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/research/library/index.utp?
      > > content=bibliography/jhvhwtns/right.htm
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/research/library/index.utp?
      > > content=highlights/books/book27.htm
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/education/resource/jehovahs/jehovahsw.php?
      > >
      >
      menu=/export/home/www/doc_root/education/foreducators/include/menu.txt
      > > &bgcolor=CD9544
      > >
      > > http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/index.php?
      > > ModuleId=10005433&Type=normal+article
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, Teresa
      > > <eternity39us@y...> wrote:
      > > > The WTBTS governing body is so much in the world, but yet they
      > tell
      > > their members to be no part of the world, but yet WTBTS in all in
      > the
      > > world. Isn't this speaking from both side of your mouth?
      > > >
      > > > Sinclair Stable <sincink@i...> wrote:
      > > > Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 05:02:06 -0000
      > > > From: "truth_bearer2003" <truth_bearer2003@y...>
      > > > The fruits of Christendom are bad!
      > > >
      > > > e.g. Nazi collaborators, anti-semitics, fascists,
      > > warmongers,
      > > > false theology preachers, etc. etc.!
      > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I agree with you, WTBTS is just one of them!
      > > > BTW, WTBTS made a bed with Hitler.
      > > > http://www.randytv.com/Hitler/watchtower_hitler.htm
      > > >
      > > > Lots of things "hidden in the WTBTS _inner chambers_"
      > > >
      > > > So what "truth" do you come bearing, "truth_bearer2003" ?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > In Christ,
      > > > mou kurios kai mou theos
      > > > Barb
      > > > John 16:1-3
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In jehovahswitnessesgathering@yahoogroups.com, "Sinclair
      > > > Stable" <sincink@i...> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Mark <mudoftyrone> wrote:
      > > > > >>>>>>>>>>Lloyd,
      > > > > The problem you appear to be having is not seeing the
      other
      > > > things
      > > > > that did occur. Yes World War I started in 1914 but that was
      > > > only the
      > > > > start.
      > > > > Have you ever talked with anyone who was alive at that
      time
      > > > ? Do
      > > > > you know anyone who lived through that time period ? I have.
      > > > The
      > > > > changes that occurred shocked them. The feelings of
      > > > insecurity was
      > > > > almost overpowering. My grandfather bought locks for the
      > > > doors,
      > > > > something that prior to this was almost unheard of. Face it,
      > the
      > > > > world changed in 1914.
      > > > > The taking away of peace from the world means more than
      > > > warfare.
      > > > > The evidence is there Lloyd all you have to do is look for it
      > > with
      > > > an
      > > > > open mind. Get beyond WWI as war and reports of war were
      > > > only part of
      > > > > the sign of Jesus' presence (parousia). Jesus told the
      > > > disciples that
      > > > > there would be food shortages and earthquakes as well.
      > > > > Mark<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > "Face it, the world changed in 1914." (????)
      > > > >
      > > > > ***Ya so what. The world is dieing, no big deal. I know how
      > > > > it ends, I read the book. "Face it", 1914 is just another
      > failed
      > > > > prophesy from the slaves of the WT.
      > > > >
      > > > > 1914 was a WT failed Armageddon prophesy:
      > > > > [scans available] http://quotes.watchtower.ca/1914.htm
      > > > > then 1914 changed to "Jesus Christ's _invisible presence_"
      > > > > (after the OTHER failed 'presence' prophesy of 1873 & 1873).
      > > > >
      > > > > WTBTS tried to teach me, Jesus 'presence' can ONLY be seen
      > > > by
      > > > > people with the WT 'anointing' 144,000.... Specifically the
      > > > governing
      > > > > body of men at Bethel -WTBTS headquarters. See these false
      > > > error
      > > > > filled men here: http://www.freeminds.org/gbfiles.htm
      > > > >
      > > > > The WTBTS tried to teach me that Christ is only found in the
      > > > > secret chambers of WTBTS govering body. "Secret inner
      > > > Chamber/s"
      > > > > where Jesus dwells "invisibly". This secret invisible
      presence
      > > > is only
      > > > > available to a few in the WTBTS. He is absent to the entire
      > > > world,
      > > > > ONLY seen and communicated secretly, _invisibly_ to the WT
      > > > slaves
      > > > > in the WT 'inner chambers'.
      > > > >
      > > > > This is all utterly and totally false!
      > > > >
      > > > > Jesus Christ tells us DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
      > > > >
      > > > > Matthew ch 24 (NWT)
      > > > > "Then if anyone says to YOU, 'Look! Here is the Christ,' or,
      > > > > 'There!' DO NOT BELIEVE IT. For FALSE CHRIST'S AND
      > > > > FALSE PROPHETS WILL ARISE and will give great signs
      > > > > and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen
      > > > ones.
      > > > > Look! I have forewarned YOU.
      > > > > Therefore, if people say to YOU, 'Look! He is in the
      > > > wilderness,'
      > > > > do not go out; 'Look! HE IS IN THE INNER CHAMBERS
      > > > > (secret chambers),' DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
      > > > > For just as the lightning comes out of the eastern parts and
      > > > shines
      > > > > over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will
      > > > be.
      > > > >
      > > > > Matthew chapter 7 (NWT)
      > > > > "Be on the watch for the fasle prophets THAT COME TO YOU in
      > > > > sheep's covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. By
      > their
      > > > fruits
      > > > > YOU will recognize them. ..... Really, then, by their
      fruits
      > > YOU
      > > > will
      > > > > recognize those [men]. <and women of course>
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > > >
      > > >
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    • Teresa
      Larry thank you. This is well written and is very truthful. I ve been wanting to say this but didn t know how. Thank you so much for writing this.
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 1, 2004
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        Larry thank you. This is well written and is very truthful. I've been wanting to say this but didn't know how. Thank you so much for writing this.

        larry@... wrote:Not individuals
        > among all congregations but the ONE true congregation itself.
        > The original Christian congregation that was established by Christ
        > were united as ONE with identical teachings and beliefs.



        The body of Christ will always have problems; that is, at least, until the
        Lord returns and we are perfected. This is the area where the JW's have
        made the most effective counterfeit, by constructing an organization on
        the principles of "obedience or else," instead of by the love of Christ
        and the painful freedom it brings. Freedom requires us to use our heads
        and our hearts in making decisions constantly, and not following a Talmud
        of rules, as did the Pharisees. For many, though, such freedom is
        frightening. They would rather be able to find all their answers in a
        book, so as to avoid thinking. Thinking to them appears to be too painful
        to get involved in.

        Jehovah's Witnesses claim to model themselves after the New Testament
        Church. Not unexpectedly, so do most other "Christian" cults. However,
        there is no historical match, as the records of the early Church reveal
        they were worlds apart from being a regimented, well-oiled machine. Unity
        came through their spirits being at one with one another, not through a
        unity enforced in the flesh, as is the case with modern religious
        organizations like the Watchtower. Since such organizations cannot produce
        true spiritual unity (which can only come by the Holy Spirit), they must
        enforce unity by rules and regulations. Even some "orthodox" churches have
        developed this technique.

        We frequently forget that the New Testament church was constantly beset
        with doctrinal, behavioral, even racial problems.

        The Corinthians, for example, tolerated sexual aberration, misunderstood
        the resurrection of the dead, and misused the gifts of the Spirit, and
        some even got drunk at Communion services. The Galatians misrepresented
        the gospel and turned to legalism for a time. The church in Colosse mixed
        Christian teachings with heathen world-views. . . .

        Can we expect more from our "New Testament church"? Many cults describe
        themselves as ideal communities; they promise perfect fellowship. Our
        yearning and search for such an ideal can quickly turn our heads in the
        direction of those who offer something beyond what God is committed to
        establish in the here and now with fallen and redeemed human beings.
        Unholy devotion.

        Jehovah's Witnesses feel at one with each other, not because of a
        supernatural unity based on a common love for Christ, but rather, based on
        their common interests in matters of routine and idealism. But this
        utopian idealism is an enforced idealism; there can be no dissent among
        the ranks. It restricts the freedom of people to be individuals, and
        forces them to conform to a certain narrow pattern of life so as to
        collectively accomplish a goal, much like communism operates. Christ never
        intended that we all be clones of each other and walk and talk alike. He
        never intended that rules of conduct and dress be drawn up and enforced.
        Rather, he intended that we use our individuality to reflect his glory and
        worship him and his Father (John 5:23).


        The point is, God operates a little differently than we would. His timing
        is different, and he is generally more gracious than we would be! (Isa.
        55:69) Our tendency, which is manifest in groups like the Watchtower, is
        to take all matters into our own hands and enforce conformity to a list of
        rules and codes of conduct, so as not to have compassion or mercy towards
        troublemakers at all. We then become like the eldest son of a family who
        rejects his weaker brothers and sisters, seeking to become an independent
        man, and then use the excuse that the family is a bad example to
        outsiders, and that he is therefore keeping himself free from
        contamination by immature ones. Such an attitude stinks of pride and
        hatred for the lowly ones who really do need help within the family.
        Rather than seeking to work as a body and help those who are weak in faith
        and immature in heart, we form an elitist clique that will even go outside
        the family to enlist sympathy and talk about our "embarrassing" siblings;
        much to the shame of ourselves and the anger of our father. Likewise, God
        is capable of such anger against those who despise his "little ones"
        (Matt. 25:41-46).



        Larry

        (excerpts from Randall Watters)

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      • Sinclair Stable
        ... that you do not think are supported by the bible itself?If you ll notice(contrary to your claims)Witness literature ALWAYS gives plenty of scripture
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 1, 2004
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          "Russ" <ditchbilly@...> wrote:
          >>>>>Would you care to point out some particular Witness viewpoints
          that you do not think are supported by the bible itself?If you'll
          notice(contrary to your claims)Witness literature ALWAYS gives plenty
          of scripture reference to back up what they say.One thing taught by
          Christ that you seem to overlook is the fact that the ONE true
          Christian congregation is recognized by their deeds.Not individuals
          among all congregations but the ONE true congregation itself.
          The original Christian congregation that was established by Christ
          were united as ONE with identical teachings and beliefs.<<<<<<<<<<
          ================================



          Did the original Christian congregation teach that
          Jesus Christ was in the "inner secret chambers"
          and only available to a few men at headquarters?
          Did Jesus tell us that He would be in the inner chambers?
          Russ, Jesus Christ tells us DO NOT BELIVE IT!

          NWT Matt 24:26
          Therefore, if people say to YOU,
          'Look! He is in the wilderness,' do not go out;
          'Look! He is in the inner chambers,' do not believe it.

          KJV Matt 24:26
          Wherefore if they shall say unto you,
          Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
          behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


          Who do you believe?
          Jesus Christ the Lord the Son of God
          or
          the WTBTS governing body of men?
          http://www.freeminds.org/gbfiles.htm


          Only one of them is right.
          Your choice is your life or your death.

          In Christ,
          mou kurios kai mou theos
          Barb
          John 14:6-7

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • larry@moebiuscolor.com
          ... No offense to Jehovah s Witnesses, and I mean that, but I always chuckle when I meet a JW and he says something like Who else is preaching the gospel to
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 1, 2004
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            > Russ Jesus Christs' congregation is world-wide. It is know as the
            > body of Christ. When Jesus return the wheat from the chaff will be
            > separated. Jesus has disciples all over the world. Jesus disciples
            > are not limited to one organization known as the WTBTS. Jesus
            > organization is the body of believers, the body of christ.



            No offense to Jehovah's Witnesses, and I mean that, but I always chuckle
            when I meet a JW and he says something like 'Who else is preaching the
            gospel to all nations like we are' or something close to that.

            Well, let's see, the bible is now available, at least in part, in 2,287
            languages. Hmm, and I think the Watchtower has 12 translations of the NWT.
            SO that leads me to believe that Evangelical Christianity is responsible
            for the others. (Statistical Summary provided by UBS World Report, March
            2002)

            I get a magazine from the Bible League every month and it has charts and
            graphs about how many bibles they have translated in the past year, and
            how many churches they have built, on every continent, in hundreds of
            countries, etc. Totally organized. Are they the true organization?

            No, Jesus is, and He calls SINNERS to Himself. Not religious people who
            run a business, but people who see that they need to be forgiven....



            In love,

            Larry
          • Teresa
            Larry God Bless You . You have brought so much enlightment to this group. I am glad you are here. You are correct. The WTBTS is nothing more than a
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 1, 2004
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              Larry God Bless You . You have brought so much enlightment to this group. I am glad you are here. You are correct. The WTBTS is nothing more than a business. But they pretend to be a bible based organization so that they can get away from financial obligations. If you know what I mean.

              You know the devil took Jesus to a high mountain and showed him all the Kingdoms in the world and the devil would have given Jesus all these Kingdoms, if Jesus would have bowed down and done an act of worship to the devil. But Jesus rebuke the devil and said get behind me Satan, for it is God only to be worshipped and HIM shall you serve.

              The WTBTS is serving their own bellies.

              Peace

              Teresa
              Ambassador for Christ
              larry@... wrote:
              > Russ Jesus Christs' congregation is world-wide. It is know as the
              > body of Christ. When Jesus return the wheat from the chaff will be
              > separated. Jesus has disciples all over the world. Jesus disciples
              > are not limited to one organization known as the WTBTS. Jesus
              > organization is the body of believers, the body of christ.



              No offense to Jehovah's Witnesses, and I mean that, but I always chuckle
              when I meet a JW and he says something like 'Who else is preaching the
              gospel to all nations like we are' or something close to that.

              Well, let's see, the bible is now available, at least in part, in 2,287
              languages. Hmm, and I think the Watchtower has 12 translations of the NWT.
              SO that leads me to believe that Evangelical Christianity is responsible
              for the others. (Statistical Summary provided by UBS World Report, March
              2002)

              I get a magazine from the Bible League every month and it has charts and
              graphs about how many bibles they have translated in the past year, and
              how many churches they have built, on every continent, in hundreds of
              countries, etc. Totally organized. Are they the true organization?

              No, Jesus is, and He calls SINNERS to Himself. Not religious people who
              run a business, but people who see that they need to be forgiven....



              In love,

              Larry



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            • larry@moebiuscolor.com
              ... Well thank you Teresa, that is awfully nice to say. I want everyone here to know that although you may think I am attacking the WT because I raise
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 1, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                > Larry God Bless You . You have brought so much enlightment to this
                > group. I am glad you are here.


                Well thank you Teresa, that is awfully nice to say. I want everyone here
                to know that although you may think I am attacking the WT because I raise
                questions and objections to the organization, my motivation is always
                love, and if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. Truth is truth,
                and will always stand on its own.

                Warm regards,


                Larry
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