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general questions/problems

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  • un_x
    FBSD4/latest ME. 1. how can you bind C-@? i tried x00 0x00 C-@ C- C-space etc, and none works ... 2. i think if OVERWRITE mode is ON, rectangle
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 20, 2002
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      FBSD4/latest ME.

      1. how can you bind C-@?
      i tried "\x00" "0x00" "C-@" "C- " "C-space"
      etc, and none works ...

      2. i think if OVERWRITE mode is ON, rectangle blocks
      should "paste" OVER text ... as of now it appears
      ME just "inserts" blocks regardless of OVERWRITE mode.

      3. is there a way to insert "literal" control chars?
      ie, instead of ^B, i'd like a smilie face,
      instead of ^F, i'd like to see a diamond.
      normal PC charset.

      4. is there a limit on keybindings? i have over a 100
      and although i haven't tracked the problem down
      specifically, certain bindings seems to disappear
      when i add more, and they come back when i reduce the
      amount. there is no consistency in regards to the order
      so it will take me a while to figure out what is going on.

      5. is there a way to keep the *scratch* buffer from appearing?
      if i want a scratch buffer, i can make one and it's kind of
      annoying to always have "*scratch*" in my buffers when i
      never wanted it or asked for one. it's just always
      nagging to be deleted. i thought of using hooks, and
      deleting "*scratch*" when a hook executes, but that seems
      kinda dirty, since it will end up trying to delete "*scratch*"
      even though it will be gone after the first delete.

      6. is there a way to detect if a mark is set? i want to mark
      an entire buffer if it is unset, and leave it set if it is.
      ... for use in user-defined macros.

      7. i think this is a known bug - the rectangle highlighting
      still highlights in line mode, not block mode. it is functional
      in rectangle modes however, just not the marking. how about
      a mark highlights rectangularly if the 1st key is left/right
      and not if the 1st key after a set-mark is up/down?
      or a rectangle "mode" as in wrap/overwrite/etc...

      8. "quote" should allow decimal/hex numbers, not just
      literal keystrokes ... ? i'd like to be able to generate
      any ascii char, not just typable ones.

      9. looking forward to a system() macro that throws ME into the
      background allowing an interactive program to be used
      (such as Ispell for example) on ME buffer data.

      great editor!
    • Jon Green
      I ve just got back from being away - you are asking some very good questions - to which I ll have to sit down and explore in a little more detail. As a matter
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 20, 2002
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        I've just got back from being away - you are
        asking some very good questions - to which I'll
        have to sit down and explore in a little more
        detail.

        As a matter of interest what platform are you
        running on - some of these questions are
        very platform specific. Your E-Mail address
        would imply UNIX, but the C-@ binding problem
        would imply Windows.

        Regards
        Jon.


        un_x wrote:
        >
        > FBSD4/latest ME.
        >
        > 1. how can you bind C-@?
        > i tried "\x00" "0x00" "C-@" "C- " "C-space"
        > etc, and none works ...

        I think on Windows this key is not coming
        through correctly. What Keyboard Locale/
        Country are you using ? What platform are
        you on ?


        >
        > 2. i think if OVERWRITE mode is ON, rectangle blocks
        > should "paste" OVER text ... as of now it appears
        > ME just "inserts" blocks regardless of OVERWRITE mode.

        Need to try this out.

        >
        > 3. is there a way to insert "literal" control chars?
        > ie, instead of ^B, i'd like a smilie face,
        > instead of ^F, i'd like to see a diamond.
        > normal PC charset.
        >

        Below 0x1f no unless the extended charset is removed.
        These are very platform specific - charset.emf controls
        what is enabled.

        > 4. is there a limit on keybindings? i have over a 100
        > and although i haven't tracked the problem down
        > specifically, certain bindings seems to disappear
        > when i add more, and they come back when i reduce the
        > amount. there is no consistency in regards to the order
        > so it will take me a while to figure out what is going on.

        Should be no limit.

        >
        > 5. is there a way to keep the *scratch* buffer from appearing?
        > if i want a scratch buffer, i can make one and it's kind of
        > annoying to always have "*scratch*" in my buffers when i
        > never wanted it or asked for one. it's just always
        > nagging to be deleted. i thought of using hooks, and
        > deleting "*scratch*" when a hook executes, but that seems
        > kinda dirty, since it will end up trying to delete "*scratch*"
        > even though it will be gone after the first delete.

        Nope. You can delete *scratch*, but if there is no
        buffer *scratch* will be created automatically because
        you always need 1 buffer. In you start up you could
        delete it provided you have another file loaded -
        you can never have "NO BUFFER"

        >
        > 6. is there a way to detect if a mark is set? i want to mark
        > an entire buffer if it is unset, and leave it set if it is.
        > ... for use in user-defined macros.

        Not sure - do not think so externally.

        >
        > 7. i think this is a known bug - the rectangle highlighting
        > still highlights in line mode, not block mode. it is functional
        > in rectangle modes however, just not the marking. how about
        > a mark highlights rectangularly if the 1st key is left/right
        > and not if the 1st key after a set-mark is up/down?
        > or a rectangle "mode" as in wrap/overwrite/etc...

        Need to try this.

        >
        > 8. "quote" should allow decimal/hex numbers, not just
        > literal keystrokes ... ? i'd like to be able to generate
        > any ascii char, not just typable ones.

        Fair point.

        >
        > 9. looking forward to a system() macro that throws ME into the
        > background allowing an interactive program to be used
        > (such as Ispell for example) on ME buffer data.

        I assume this is a background filter ?? There is
        already the ipipe mechanism which will run a command
        in the background. The filter does not do this in
        the background - probably because we do not use
        filters that often so no call reason to support it
        to date.

        >
        > great editor!

        This should keep me happy ?

        Thanks for the feedback - you seem to be taking it apart.

        Regards
        Jon.

        >
        >
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      • Steven Phillips
        ... C-@ locks up my terminal, its one of those keys! Assuming you are using a termcap interface the problem is going to lie in the area of termcap and the
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 20, 2002
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          >
          > FBSD4/latest ME.
          >
          > 1. how can you bind C-@?
          > i tried "\x00" "0x00" "C-@" "C- " "C-space"
          > etc, and none works ...

          C-@ locks up my terminal, its one of those keys! Assuming you are using a
          termcap interface the problem is going to lie in the area of termcap and the
          character sequence it generates for the key. See fairly recent replies on
          the news group for other key binding problems or the faq of the subject
          (search for $recent-keys).

          > 2. i think if OVERWRITE mode is ON, rectangle blocks
          > should "paste" OVER text ... as of now it appears
          > ME just "inserts" blocks regardless of OVERWRITE mode.

          This is not a common way of doing things (Emacs, MicroEMACS, Word etc) but
          could be implemented in a macro using @y. But there are issues when the yank
          buffer contains a new-line char ('\n'), typically these are inserted, if so
          what happens to any remaining chars on the original line?? etc.

          For example, given the following yank buffer:

          ---------
          "Hello
          World and all that"
          ---------

          And the following buffer with the cursor at the '^'

          ---------
          This is the ^ point of
          insertion
          ---------

          The following are all legitimate results from an overwrite yank:
          ---------
          This is the Hello
          World and all thatt of
          insertion
          ---------
          This is the Hello
          World and all that
          insertion
          ---------
          This is the Hello
          World and all that
          ---------

          So how this would behave is fair less well defined hence the standard of
          inserting blocks (I think I would favour the middle result but much prefer
          the simple insertion as I know what I'm going to get).

          > 3. is there a way to insert "literal" control chars?
          > ie, instead of ^B, i'd like a smilie face,
          > instead of ^F, i'd like to see a diamond.
          > normal PC charset.

          Use:

          set-char-mask "dp" "\CB\CF"

          >
          > 4. is there a limit on keybindings? i have over a 100
          > and although i haven't tracked the problem down
          > specifically, certain bindings seems to disappear
          > when i add more, and they come back when i reduce the
          > amount. there is no consistency in regards to the order
          > so it will take me a while to figure out what is going on.

          Yes there is a limit, 384, there are a 181 burnt in default ones, that goes
          up to 209 when me.emf is run and when I use ME a further 34 are added (due
          to the mouse and MSShift support etc - I only add 4 of my own bindings)
          getting the total to 243, leaving ~140 left.

          So the question has to be why are you using so many? With only 50 odd keys
          on a keyboard this is like adding 2 new prefixes and binding every key on
          the keyboard to it. It suggest to me that you are completely reconfiguring
          the key-bindings in which case you should unbind the ones you don't want
          first (use '-1 global-unbind-key "y"' to unbind the lot or use '0
          global-unbind-key "esc"' etc to get rid of the main prefix keys and all
          their bindings).

          > 5. is there a way to keep the *scratch* buffer from appearing?
          > if i want a scratch buffer, i can make one and it's kind of
          > annoying to always have "*scratch*" in my buffers when i
          > never wanted it or asked for one. it's just always
          > nagging to be deleted. i thought of using hooks, and
          > deleting "*scratch*" when a hook executes, but that seems
          > kinda dirty, since it will end up trying to delete "*scratch*"
          > even though it will be gone after the first delete.

          Or define a start-up macro to delete the initial *scratch* buffer (see docs
          on start-up) - ME must have at least one buffer so when you delete the last
          buffer the *scratch* buffer will be created again, I don't see a way around
          this.

          >
          > 6. is there a way to detect if a mark is set? i want to mark
          > an entire buffer if it is unset, and leave it set if it is.
          > ... for use in user-defined macros.

          Try:

          define-macro Test-mark
          !force exchange-point-and-mark
          !if $status
          exchange-point-and-mark
          ml-write "Mark is set"
          !else
          ml-write "Mark is not set"
          !endif
          !emacro

          I can't stop the 'not set' case from ringing the bell - not such a problem
          if you use quiet mode. I will fix this.

          > 7. i think this is a known bug - the rectangle highlighting
          > still highlights in line mode, not block mode. it is functional
          > in rectangle modes however, just not the marking. how about
          > a mark highlights rectangularly if the 1st key is left/right
          > and not if the 1st key after a set-mark is up/down?
          > or a rectangle "mode" as in wrap/overwrite/etc...

          I don't think that rectangle regions are used enough to warrant this, I
          certainly don't want to have to move the cursor down to get the normal
          region hilight. If the cursor moving region hilight does not do the
          rectangle region then the only time it would be used is on the
          yank-rectangle command and thats a lot of code for one minor feature. ME is
          a careful balance between power and size, we have added the ability to do
          rectangle regions but I don't think the hilighting of the region can be
          justified, sorry.

          > 8. "quote" should allow decimal/hex numbers, not just
          > literal keystrokes ... ? i'd like to be able to generate
          > any ascii char, not just typable ones.

          A simple macro could be written to do this.

          > 9. looking forward to a system() macro that throws ME into the
          > background allowing an interactive program to be used
          > (such as Ispell for example) on ME buffer data.

          The filter-buffer command should be able to do this as it uses system so
          there is nothing to stop the command being run from opening a window etc.

          >
          > great editor!

          Glad you like it,

          Steve
        • un_x
          ... these ... imply UNIX, ... Windows. ... ME. ... C-@? ... C-space ... Keyboard ... ? i am just using std stuff - just the default english setup. ... blocks
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 21, 2002
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            > As a matter of interest what platform are you running on - some of
            these
            > questions are very platform specific. Your E-Mail address would
            imply UNIX,
            > but the C-@ binding problem would imply
            Windows.

            > FBSD4/latest
            ME.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

            > 1. how can you bind
            C-@?
            > i tried "\x00" "0x00" "C-@" "C- "
            "C-space"
            > etc, and none works
            ...

            > I think on Windows this key is not coming through correctly. What
            Keyboard
            > Locale/ Country are you using ? What platform are you on
            ?

            i am just using std stuff - just the default english
            setup.

            > 2. i think if OVERWRITE mode is ON, rectangle
            blocks
            > should "paste" OVER text ... as of now it
            appears
            > ME just "inserts" blocks regardless of OVERWRITE
            mode.

            > Need to try this
            out.

            > 3. is there a way to insert "literal" control
            chars?
            > ie, instead of ^B, i'd like a smilie
            face,
            > instead of ^F, i'd like to see a
            diamond.
            > normal PC
            charset.

            > Below 0x1f no unless the extended charset is removed. These are
            very
            > platform specific - charset.emf controls what is
            enabled.
            2 byte CTRL chars create problems with rectangular
            selections,
            as well as misaligned columns. maybe ^A can be an
            inverse
            or bold "A"? or hilight could be used to custom
            define
            the color of a CTRL char? 2 byte codes also force
            a
            user to scroll over the character to see if it is
            a
            real control char or merely the string
            "^A".

            > 4. is there a limit on keybindings? i have over a
            100
            > and although i haven't tracked the problem
            down
            > specifically, certain bindings seems to
            disappear
            > when i add more, and they come back when i reduce
            the
            > amount. there is no consistency in regards to the
            order
            > so it will take me a while to figure out what is going
            on.

            > Should be no
            limit.

            yes - the problem was that if "esc g" is bound to
            "abort",
            non-consecutive, seemingly random, bindings
            thereafter
            lose their definition. i removed the "esc g"
            binding,
            and all is
            well.

            > 5. is there a way to keep the *scratch* buffer from
            appearing?
            > if i want a scratch buffer, i can make one and it's kind
            of
            > annoying to always have "*scratch*" in my buffers when
            i
            > never wanted it or asked for one. it's just
            always
            > nagging to be deleted. i thought of using hooks,
            and
            > deleting "*scratch*" when a hook executes, but that
            seems
            > kinda dirty, since it will end up trying to delete
            "*scratch*"
            > even though it will be gone after the first
            delete.
            > Nope. You can delete *scratch*, but if there is no
            buffer
            > *scratch* will be created automatically
            because
            > you always need 1 buffer. In you start up you
            could
            > delete it provided you have another file loaded
            -
            > you can never have "NO
            BUFFER"

            from what i experience, my guess is "me.emf" is read before the
            scratch
            buffer is created. so deleting it from me.emf is useless. the
            problem with
            a hook is that it seems hooks require custom external macro files to
            be read.
            i would like to delete *scratch* without using more than "me" and
            "me.emf".
            is it
            possible?

            > 6. is there a way to detect if a mark is set? i want to
            mark
            > an entire buffer if it is unset, and leave it set if it
            is.
            > ... for use in user-defined
            macros.

            > Not sure - do not think so
            externally.

            this would be nice so that a region macro can select the whole buffer
            by
            default if no mark has been set. this is would be very
            handy.

            > 7. i think this is a known bug - the rectangle highlighting still
            highlights $
            > line mode, not block mode. it is functional in rectangle modes
            however, just
            > not the marking. how about a mark highlights rectangularly if the
            1st key is
            > left/right and not if the 1st key after a set-mark is up/down? or
            a
            > rectangle "mode" as in
            wrap/overwrite/etc...

            > Need to try
            this.


            > 8. "quote" should allow decimal/hex numbers, not
            just
            > literal keystrokes ... ? i'd like to be able to
            generate
            > any ascii char, not just typable
            ones.

            Fair
            point.

            > 9. looking forward to a system() macro that throws ME into
            the
            > background allowing an interactive program to be
            used
            > (such as Ispell for example) on ME buffer
            data.

            > I assume this is a background filter ?? There
            is
            > already the ipipe mechanism which will run a
            command
            > in the background. The filter does not do this
            in
            > the background - probably because we do not
            use
            > filters that often so no call reason to support
            it
            > to
            date.

            i am talking about the C "system()" call, where a
            parent
            can spawn a completely interactive process like
            "ispell"
            and resume operation when the child is exited. as far as i
            know,
            the current implementation will not all the spawning of
            interactive
            processes. "me" will merely dump stdout of a process into a
            buffer.

            > 10. i can't seem to left justify "email" that is indented with
            ">"
            > chars. is there anyway to reformat/justify a paragraph while
            maintaining
            > ">"
            "bullets"?

            > 11. HOME/END (bol/eol) doesn't work in termcap mode in an xterm.
            ?
            > HF <- that's what prints when i hit HOME/END in "me" in an
            xterm.

            > great editor!

            > This should keep me
            happy?

            i dunno :) i just know that JASSPA is the ONLY syntax
            highlighting,
            customizable termcap based editor out there of reasonable
            size.
            and i wouldn't know what to do without it
            :)
            i know i wouldn't be happy
            :)

            > Thanks for the feedback - you seem to be taking it
            apart.
          • un_x
            FBSD4/latest ME. ... ok, thanks. ... etc) but ... the yank ... inserted, if so ... Hello World and all that ... And the following buffer with the cursor at
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 21, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              FBSD4/latest ME.

              > 1. how can you bind C-@?
              > i tried "\x00" "0x00" "C-@" "C- " "C-space"
              > etc, and none works ...

              > (search for $recent-keys).

              ok, thanks.

              > 2. i think if OVERWRITE mode is ON, rectangle blocks
              > should "paste" OVER text ... as of now it appears
              > ME just "inserts" blocks regardless of OVERWRITE mode.

              > This is not a common way of doing things (Emacs, MicroEMACS, Word
              etc) but
              > could be implemented in a macro using @y. But there are issues when
              the yank
              > buffer contains a new-line char ('\n'), typically these are
              inserted, if so
              > what happens to any remaining chars on the original line?? etc.

              For example, given the following yank buffer:

              ---------
              "Hello
              World and all that"
              ---------

              And the following buffer with the cursor at the '^'

              ---------
              This is the ^ point of
              insertion
              ---------

              The following are all legitimate results from an overwrite yank:

              ---------
              This is the Hello
              World and all thatt of
              insertion
              ---------
              This is the Hello
              World and all that
              insertion
              ---------
              This is the Hello
              World and all that
              ---------

              > So how this would behave is fair less well defined hence the
              standard of
              > inserting blocks (I think I would favour the middle result but much
              prefer
              > the simple insertion as I know what I'm going to get).

              i think it should end up as (as in Qedit 3.0 and Joe 2.8):

              ---------
              This is the Hello point of
              insertion World and all that
              ---------

              pastes after EOL's should have spaces inserted.
              rectangular selections should have all newlines stripped.
              it should be treated like a rectangle block
              being dropped into a grid.

              > 3. is there a way to insert "literal" control chars?
              > ie, instead of ^B, i'd like a smilie face,
              > instead of ^F, i'd like to see a diamond.
              > normal PC charset.

              > Use:
              > set-char-mask "dp" "\CB\CF"

              ok, i'll try it thanks.

              > 4. is there a limit on keybindings? i have over a 100
              > and although i haven't tracked the problem down
              > specifically, certain bindings seems to disappear
              > when i add more, and they come back when i reduce the
              > amount. there is no consistency in regards to the order
              > so it will take me a while to figure out what is going on.

              > Yes there is a limit, 384, there are a 181 burnt in default ones,
              that goes
              > up to 209 when me.emf is run and when I use ME a further 34 are
              added (due
              > to the mouse and MSShift support etc - I only add 4 of my own
              bindings)
              > getting the total to 243, leaving ~140 left.

              > So the question has to be why are you using so many? With only 50
              odd keys
              > on a keyboard this is like adding 2 new prefixes and binding every
              key on
              > the keyboard to it. It suggest to me that you are completely
              reconfiguring
              > the key-bindings in which case you should unbind the ones you don't
              want
              > first (use '-1 global-unbind-key "y"' to unbind the lot or use '0
              > global-unbind-key "esc"' etc to get rid of the main prefix keys and
              all
              > their bindings).

              i have that many bindings because like like to complement my CTRL
              bindings with ESC in case i am on a tty that "eats" some CTRL chars.
              i do unbind all initial bindings as described. the problem was
              with binding "esc g" to "abort" - that causes problems and i
              have a me.emf file that will prove it.

              > 5. is there a way to keep the *scratch* buffer from appearing?
              > if i want a scratch buffer, i can make one and it's kind of
              > annoying to always have "*scratch*" in my buffers when i
              > never wanted it or asked for one. it's just always
              > nagging to be deleted. i thought of using hooks, and
              > deleting "*scratch*" when a hook executes, but that seems
              > kinda dirty, since it will end up trying to delete "*scratch*"
              > even though it will be gone after the first delete.

              > Or define a start-up macro to delete the initial *scratch* buffer
              (see docs
              > on start-up) - ME must have at least one buffer so when you delete
              the last
              > buffer the *scratch* buffer will be created again, I don't see a way
              around
              > this.

              if no files are given as arguments, *scratch* pops up as the default
              buffer.
              otherwise it does not pop up ... that would seem like a nice way,
              IMHO.

              > 6. is there a way to detect if a mark is set? i want to mark
              > an entire buffer if it is unset, and leave it set if it is.
              > ... for use in user-defined macros.

              > Try:

              > define-macro Test-mark
              > !force exchange-point-and-mark
              > !if $status
              > exchange-point-and-mark
              > ml-write "Mark is set"
              > !else
              > ml-write "Mark is not set"
              > !endif
              > !emacro

              > I can't stop the 'not set' case from ringing the bell - not such a
              problem
              > if you use quiet mode. I will fix this.

              thanks :) i will try it :)

              > 7. i think this is a known bug - the rectangle highlighting
              > still highlights in line mode, not block mode. it is functional
              > in rectangle modes however, just not the marking. how about
              > a mark highlights rectangularly if the 1st key is left/right
              > and not if the 1st key after a set-mark is up/down?
              > or a rectangle "mode" as in wrap/overwrite/etc...

              > I don't think that rectangle regions are used enough to warrant
              this, I
              > certainly don't want to have to move the cursor down to get the
              normal
              > region hilight.

              left-to-right selections are the same in rectangle and line modes ...

              > If the cursor moving region hilight does not do the
              > rectangle region then the only time it would be used is on the
              > yank-rectangle command and thats a lot of code for one minor
              feature. ME is
              > a careful balance between power and size, we have added the ability
              to do
              > rectangle regions but I don't think the hilighting of the region can
              be
              > justified, sorry.

              ok :)

              > 8. "quote" should allow decimal/hex numbers, not just
              > literal keystrokes ... ? i'd like to be able to generate
              > any ascii char, not just typable ones.

              > A simple macro could be written to do this.

              ok :)

              > 9. looking forward to a system() macro that throws ME into the
              > background allowing an interactive program to be used
              > (such as Ispell for example) on ME buffer data.

              > The filter-buffer command should be able to do this as it uses
              system so
              > there is nothing to stop the command being run from opening a window
              etc.

              well - filter-buffer jsut dumps stdout to a buffer, i am askingF
              how to spawn an interactive program from "me". one requiring
              user input, one that doesn't dump stdout to a buffer, but
              merely spawns a process. and when the process exits,
              "me" returns to the foreground.

              > great editor!

              > Glad you like it,

              i don't just like it - it's really all there is.
              what else is there? vim? kinda big, kinda crazy.
              emacs? way too big. there simply is *NO* otherF
              editor with termcap based syntax highlighting
              of reasonable size (small enough to fit on a floppy).
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