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RE: [jasspa] RE: nanoEmacs

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  • Steven Phillips
    Arne, To get the size down (its about half the size) we have had to take out all but the basics, so things like file-hooks and osd just had to go. The ethos
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 18, 2002
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      Arne,

      To get the size down (its about half the size) we have had to take out all
      but the basics, so things like file-hooks and osd just had to go. The ethos
      behind ne is that its a lite-weight version which does not require any setup
      files (ne.emf is just a nice-to-have). Given that there are no macros where
      is no point have many features (such as hilighting, fhooks, osd, spelling
      etc) as they rely on macros to make them useful.

      Redo is a natural part of Undo, when you use undo any undo is considered an
      edit so it is added to the undo list, once you stop using undo (eg execute
      the abort-command 'C-g') the position in the undo stack is reset to the end
      which includes all the undo edits so a call to undo will now redo the
      undo's - did that make sense? To demonstrate what I mean, create a new
      buffer and type "12345" then just using the undo command ('C-_') undo all
      the 5 characters, then press C-g and then start undoing again, now you will
      see the "12345" string being reinserted and then they are removed again,
      this is first undoing the undo and then undoing the typing. Once the you are
      back to the beginning again press C-g and start undoing again, now you will
      see the "12345" being inserted, then removed then inserted again and then
      removed because it is undoing the 2nd undos, then the 1st undos and then the
      typing etc etc. Its confusing but extremely useful.

      NE can also Keep Undo History, this is a $system bit setting, try:

      set-variable $system &add $system 0x8000

      BUT if you execute the line more than once it will go wrong as its adding an
      extra 0x8000 each time, it would be better to use

      set-variable $system &bor $system 0x8000

      Which is safe, but &bor has been removed from NE, I think this needs to be
      put back in along with &band.

      I am amazed that someone uses filter-buffer! What do you use it for? I am
      genuinely interested, I was tempted to remove it from ME as well as I think
      an ME macro could be written to do what ever is done by the filter-buffer.

      2 & 3 rely on spawning capability which particularly on windows is a big
      hit, the basic editors (edit, notepad etc) do not have this facility. I
      think whether shell or pipe-shell-command is required in NE is questionable
      and hence we want feedback like this.

      4 & 6 are help function, only the basic describe-bindings and list-buffers
      are provided as it is assumed the user is familiar with MicroEmacs or at
      least has access to it.

      5, 7 & 8 are I think are all advance features - something's got to go from
      ME to get the size down!

      We are obvious trying to come up with something that is useful to the
      majority but there will always be exceptions. The next release will include
      the source code (standard MicroEmacs code with a lot of #ifdefs) and in
      emain.h there is a simple list of MEOPTs, you can of course simply enable an
      option like MEOPT_CRYPT to get set-encryption-key, MEOPT_SPAWN to get .....
      I would however still like feedback so that we can make the default NE as
      useful to the majority as possible.

      Steve

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Kludszuweit Dr, Arne (A.) [mailto:akludszu@...]
      > Sent: 18 January 2002 13:38
      > To: 'jasspa@yahoogroups.com'
      > Subject: [jasspa] RE: nanoEmacs
      >
      >
      > Detlef,Steve
      > you are right:
      >
      > global-bind-key "query-replace-string" "f6";
      >
      > works fine
      >
      >
      >
      > a listed this command which does not work
      > global-bind-key "command-apropos" "f1"; C-h a
      > global-bind-key "describe-key" "S-f1"; C-x ?
      > global-bind-key osd-redo "f12 r"
      >
      > global-abbrev-file "arne.eaf"
      > add-file-hook ".m" fhook-m
      > force execute-file osd.emf
      > add-file-hook ".vbs" fhook-vbs
      >
      >
      >
      > > I would be interested in getting any feedback on features which
      > you think
      > > could be removed and ones which have been remove which you think are
      > > required.
      > OK
      >
      >
      > 1) undo/redo
      > As in the big MicroEmacs the undo-buffer is cleared after an Save
      > File Operation
      > Can you change this behavior.
      > I need the undo/redo-buffer after the Save operation !!!
      > osd-redo or similar redo missed
      >
      > 2) filter-buffer (I use 4dos)
      >
      >
      > 3) diff compare-windows..
      >
      > 4) command-apropos
      >
      > 5) set-encryption-key find-cfile handling of encrypted files
      >
      > 6) describe-key describe-variable
      >
      > 7) append-file or better append region to file or clipboard
      >
      > 6) ascii-time
      >
      >
      >
      > I think the hooks and abbrev-files are not so important.
      >
      > !! very important
      > Can you compile the NanoEmacs for an 8086/80186 er Palmtop (Dos Real Mode)
      > (I have 5 such Palmtops)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > I'm very interested in the new version and I will try to use
      > NanoEmacs every day ..
      >
      > Arne
      >
      > P.S.
      >
      > As you sad I made a list of all available commands, they are
      > abort-command
      > about
      > add-color
      > add-color-scheme
      > backward-char
      > backward-delete-char
      > backward-delete-tab
      > backward-kill-word
      > backward-line
      > backward-word
      > beginning-of-line
      > biginning-of-buffer
      > buffer-info
      > buffer-mode
      > capitalize-word
      > change-buffer-name
      > change-directory
      > change-file-name
      > change-font
      > change-screen-depth
      > change-screen-width
      > copy-region
      > define-macro
      > define-macro-file
      > delete-blank-lines
      > delete-buffer
      > delete-other-windows
      > delete-some-buffers
      > delete-window
      > describe-bindings
      > end-kbd-macro
      > end-of-buffer
      > end-of-line
      > exchange-point-and-mark
      > execute-buffer
      > execute-file
      > execute-kbd-macro
      > execute-line
      > execute-named-command
      > execute-string
      > exit-emacs
      > find-buffer
      > find-file
      > forward-char
      > forward-delete-char
      > forward-kill-word
      > forward-line
      > forward-word
      > global-bind-key
      > global-mode
      > global-unbind-key
      > goto-alpha-mark
      > goto-line
      > goto-matching-fence
      > grow-window-horizontally
      > grow-window-vertically
      > hunt-backward
      > hunt-forward
      > inser-newline
      > insert-file
      > insert-file-name
      > insert-space
      > insert-string
      > insert-tab
      > isearch-backward
      > isearch-forward
      > kill-line
      > kill-region
      > list-buffers
      > lower-case-region
      > lower-case-word
      > ml-clear
      > ml-write
      > named-buffer-mode
      > newline
      > next-buffer
      > next-window
      > pipe-shell-command
      > popup-window
      > prefix
      > previous-window
      > query-replace-string
      > quick-exit
      > quote-char
      > read-file
      > recenter
      > replace-string
      > resize-all-windows
      > resize-window-horizontally
      > resize-window-vertically
      > reyank
      > save-buffer
      > save-buffers-exit-emacs
      > save-some-buffers
      > screen-poke
      > screen-update
      > scroll-down
      > scroll-left
      > scroll-right
      > scroll-up
      > search-backward
      > search-forward
      > set-alpha-mark
      > set-mark
      > set-variable
      > shell
      > shell-command
      > show-cursor
      > show-region
      > shrink-window-horizontally
      > shrink-window-vertically
      > sort-lines
      > split-window-horizontally
      > split-window-vertically
      > start-kbd-macro
      > tab
      > translate-key
      > transpose-chars
      > transpose-lines
      > undo
      > universal-argument
      > unset-variable
      > upper-case-word
      > view-file
      > void
      > write-buffer
      > yank
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Bruno Sabin [mailto:bsabin@...]
      > Sent: Donnerstag, 17. Januar 2002 18:36
      > To: Steven Phillips
      > Cc: jasspa@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re[2]: [jasspa] news: nanoEmacs
      >
      >
      > Hello Steven,
      >
      > UNIX is really where I would tremendously benefit from nE ... any
      > source code on the horizon? (you know all the platforms I need 8-D
      >
      > Also, even though I would use microEmacs for everyday editing, I was
      > wondering what would the overhead be if we added some sort of
      > language hook support (crude support could go in the ne.emf if need
      > be)? (I'm lost without my Perl hook ... grown used to it a bit too
      > much I guess).
      >
      > Then again it would mean increasing the size/complexity of a tool
      > which advantage relies in its extreme simplicity. Just a shot in the
      > dark.
      >
      > Also, ipipe support is hard to forget when you've been using ME for
      > a while (grep is what made me realise its absence). Again, I can
      > still get a shell using ^X-C
      >
      > nuff raving! I need it, I love it, gimme more (UNIX)
      >
      > --
      > Kind regards,
      >
      > Bruno
      >
      > _________________________________________________________________
      > Bruno Sabin Parametric Technology Corp.
      > Phone: +1 (858) 535 3010 Suite 310, 5850 Oberlin Drive
      > Fax: +1 (858) 535 3002 San Diego, CA.92121
      >
      > Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
      > -Berthold Auerbach, German Writer (1812-1882)
      >
      > mailto:bsabin@...
      >
      > Thursday, January 17, 2002, 7:11:16 AM, you wrote:
      >
      > > Both global-bind-key & query-replace-string should be available
      > so I'm not
      > > sure why the line below does not work - it does for me
      > (groan!). The first
      > > cut had a few teething problems and I assume this is one of them.
      >
      > > To get a list of commands use the command completion on the ml
      > line, i.e.
      > > execute execute-named-command (esc x) and then press tab twice to get a
      > > completion list. Use page-up & down to move around the list as normal.
      >
      > > I would be interested in getting any feedback on features which
      > you think
      > > could be removed and ones which have been remove which you think are
      > > required.
      >
      > > New and much better version coming very soon,
      >
      > > Steve
      >
      > >> -----Original Message-----
      > >> From: Kludszuweit Dr, Arne (A.) [mailto:akludszu@...]
      > >> Sent: 17 January 2002 16:27
      > >> To: 'jasspa@yahoogroups.com'
      > >> Subject: RE: [jasspa] news: nanoEmacs
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Detlef,
      > >> Many thanks for your idea with upx - it works fine
      > >>
      > >> The idea of an very tiny emacs with an nearly infinite starting
      > >> time is great !!!!!!!!!!
      > >> This executable must not be installed !!, is extreme fast and
      > runs in each
      > >> subdir - no registry entry no bad Dll's in the System Dir ..
      > >>
      > >> My most frequent used command is
      > >> global-bind-key "query-replace-string" "f6";
      > >>
      > >> but I got an error message
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> Which commands are allowed ?
      > >>
      > >> Arne
      > >>
      > >> -----Original Message-----
      > >> From: dgroth@... [mailto:dgroth@...]
      > >> Sent: Mittwoch, 16. Januar 2002 10:09
      > >> To: jasspa@yahoogroups.com
      > >> Cc: jasspa@yahoogroups.com
      > >> Subject: Re: [jasspa] news: nanoEmacs
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >> >
      > >> >We have taken it off line while we sort out some
      > >> >further issues. However it is still accessible
      > >> >from:
      > >> >
      > >> > http://www.jasspa.com/hindex.html
      > >> >
      > >> >Regards
      > >> >Jon.
      > >> >
      > >> >"Kludszuweit Dr, Arne (A.)" wrote:
      > >> >>
      > >> >> I can't find the version of nanoEmacs ...
      > >> >>
      > >> >> Arne
      > >> >>
      > >>
      > >> An interesting idea for small systems etc.
      > >>
      > >> you can even further nanosize ne with upx:
      > >>
      > >> http://upx.sourceforge.net/
      > >>
      > >> I reduced ne32.exe from 212,992 byte to 106,496 byte using this
      > >>
      > >> compressor thereafter renaming it picoEmacs ...
      > >>
      > >> regards,
      > >>
      > >> Detlef
      > >> --
      > >> Dr. Detlef Groth
      > >> Max-Planck-Institut
      > >> fuer Molekulare Genetik
      > >> Ihnestr. 63/73
      > >> D-14195 Berlin
      > >> Tel.: + 49 30 - 8413 1235
      > >> Email: dgroth@...
      > >> Email: dgroth@...
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>
      > __________________________________________________________________________
      > >>
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      > >>
      > >>
      > __________________________________________________________________________
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      >
      >
      > >
      > __________________________________________________________________________
      >
      > > This is an unmoderated list. JASSPA is not responsible for the
      > content of
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      >
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