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20060822 version - first impressions

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  • Thomas Hundt
    This seems to be a really nice release. Below are a bunch of nitpicking comments, take what you want from them. Installation was easy enough. The Unix build
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 29, 2006
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      This seems to be a really nice release. Below are a bunch of nitpicking
      comments, take what you want from them.

      Installation was easy enough.
      The Unix build process is cleaner. Fewer warnings.
      (Had one problem under SuSE 10 -- they put libtermcap.a in
      /usr/lib/termcap for some reason.)

      Wow, the new menus are nice. Seem to be easier to find things in.
      Smoother.

      I immediately screwed myself by trying out View>Main Menu, which makes
      the menu bar go
      away. It made me very happy, to get back an additional line of
      display, but I fumbled around, trying to get it back. (F1
      displays the menu. But there's no way to do so using purely the mouse.
      I was right clicking all over the place, trying. Other programs have
      this functionality under the context menu for the window, i.e., click on
      the program's icon in the top left corner. Example: putty.)

      (A Windows program might have a toggleable checkmark next to
      this menu item, since "View Menu Bar" describes a toggleable state, not
      an action. After all, this menu item actually does "Hide Menu Bar".)

      It seems the menus don't actually show the current bindings of the
      commands. (Example: I have F5 and F6 set to scroll the window up and
      down by one line. But the menu claims F5 is bound to File>Reread File.)

      I tried the FTP browser, and couldn't figure out how to get rid of it
      easily. (Ended up killing a bunch of buffers and closing a bunch of
      windows manually.) It's not like the file browser, where F10 toggles
      the thing.

      "View>White Characters" is an awkward label, "View Whitespace" is more
      conventional. Newbies might not know what "whitespace" means, but how
      many newbies use a programmers' editor.

      I'm going to have to read up on just what "Tools>Compare Windows" is
      supposed to do (since it does not give me a comparison of two windows I
      have open, which is what I expected).

      The "Tools>Document Tools" submenu is awkwardly wide. When you pull the
      mouse down the Tools menu, it wants to get stuck on the Document Tools
      submenu (because, since it is so wide, it overlaps half of the Tools
      menu). This obviously depends on one's window size. (Mine default to
      like 80x40.) To shorten the text in the submenu: Maybe the word
      "justification" could be changed to "justify" ("Change to center
      justify") and think about what to do with that "[DEFAULT]" (which I
      don't understand -- will have to rtfm it, and also "justify gutter").

      I'm not sure I like the popup of the "Show Current Settings" box after
      one changes the justification mode. I mean if one just chose "Right"
      from the menu, is helpful to have a box pop up saying "You just chose
      'R'." On the other hand, at least it's easy to dismiss, by hitting Enter.

      "Sort Lines" really does "Sort Region Lines", doesn't it. If one
      doesn't have a region selected, it won't do anything, which might be
      confusing.

      I found "Load Session" but don't understand it (will have to rtfm what
      it actually does -- where is the corresponding "Save Session"??)

      Thanks, great work on this, as always

      --
      Thomas Hundt <tom@...> +1-415-867-6698
    • Steven Phillips
      Tom, ... Does anyone know if adding -L/usr/lib/termcap to the CONSOLE_LIBS definition could cause any side effects?, i.e. change linux2*.gmk makefiles to:
      Message 2 of 3 , Sep 3, 2006
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        Tom,

        Thanks for your feedback:

        > Subject: [jasspa] 20060822 version - first impressions
        > From: Thomas Hundt <thundt@...>
        > Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2006, 10:08:10 PM
        > To: jasspa@yahoogroups.com
        > This seems to be a really nice release. Below are a bunch of nitpicking
        > comments, take what you want from them.

        > Installation was easy enough.
        > The Unix build process is cleaner. Fewer warnings.
        > (Had one problem under SuSE 10 -- they put libtermcap.a in
        > /usr/lib/termcap for some reason.)

        Does anyone know if adding -L/usr/lib/termcap to the CONSOLE_LIBS definition
        could cause any side effects?, i.e. change linux2*.gmk makefiles to:

        ifneq "$(strip $(test))" ""
        CONSOLE_LIBS = -L/usr/lib/termcap -ltermcap
        else
        CONSOLE_LIBS = -L/usr/lib/termcap -lncurses
        endif

        Does this work?

        > I immediately screwed myself by trying out View>Main Menu, which makes
        > the menu bar go
        > away. It made me very happy, to get back an additional line of
        > display, but I fumbled around, trying to get it back. (F1
        > displays the menu. But there's no way to do so using purely the mouse.
        > I was right clicking all over the place, trying. Other programs have
        > this functionality under the context menu for the window, i.e., click on
        > the program's icon in the top left corner. Example: putty.)

        We can't reliably change the main window (frame) context menu (consider
        termcap!) but I have attempted to address this issue by popping up an info
        dialog telling you how to get out of this problem which will only be shown
        once per session.

        I have done a similar thing for the Advanced > Record Macro.

        > (A Windows program might have a toggleable checkmark next to
        > this menu item, since "View Menu Bar" describes a toggleable state, not
        > an action. After all, this menu item actually does "Hide Menu Bar".)

        I will prefix each of these items with the word 'Hide' or 'Show' (there are no
        reasonably readable checkmarks in a termcap environment).

        > It seems the menus don't actually show the current bindings of the
        > commands. (Example: I have F5 and F6 set to scroll the window up and
        > down by one line. But the menu claims F5 is bound to File>Reread File.)

        This is correct, the listed key bindings are really aimed to help beginners
        learn the weird key bindings that make ME so quick to use, they are currently
        burnt in. Trying to do this dynamically probably won't work much better as
        many commands are multiply bound so the results may be variable (e.g. C-_
        listed instead of C-x u for undo etc)

        > I tried the FTP browser, and couldn't figure out how to get rid of it
        > easily. (Ended up killing a bunch of buffers and closing a bunch of
        > windows manually.) It's not like the file browser, where F10 toggles
        > the thing.

        Use 'f10', the same is true for 'C-f10 (source control browser) - this is a
        bit of an oddity but I like the fact this opens the ftp dialog even in ftp
        mode. Should this be changed?

        "View>>White Characters" is an awkward label, "View Whitespace" is more
        > conventional. Newbies might not know what "whitespace" means, but how
        > many newbies use a programmers' editor.

        Done - the command display-white-chars has also been renamed to
        display-whitespaces.

        > I'm going to have to read up on just what "Tools>Compare Windows" is
        > supposed to do (since it does not give me a comparison of two windows I
        > have open, which is what I expected).

        You should, I find this tool extremely useful.

        The "Tools>>Document Tools" submenu is awkwardly wide. When you pull the
        > mouse down the Tools menu, it wants to get stuck on the Document Tools
        > submenu (because, since it is so wide, it overlaps half of the Tools
        > menu). This obviously depends on one's window size. (Mine default to
        > like 80x40.) To shorten the text in the submenu: Maybe the word
        > "justification" could be changed to "justify" ("Change to center
        > justify") and think about what to do with that "[DEFAULT]" (which I
        > don't understand -- will have to rtfm it, and also "justify gutter").

        This does need reducing in width, this is more Jon's area.

        > I'm not sure I like the popup of the "Show Current Settings" box after
        > one changes the justification mode. I mean if one just chose "Right"
        > from the menu, is helpful to have a box pop up saying "You just chose
        > 'R'." On the other hand, at least it's easy to dismiss, by hitting Enter.

        > "Sort Lines" really does "Sort Region Lines", doesn't it. If one
        > doesn't have a region selected, it won't do anything, which might be
        > confusing.

        There are many commands like this (Increase Indent seems fairly topical!) the
        behaviour of these commands with respect to the set-mark region and the
        currently shown selection is a difficult one to manage and how precisely
        documenting their behaviour without failing foul of stupidly wide menus is
        difficult (for example Format's 'All paragraphs to lines' should really be
        labelled 'All paragraphs to lines except ones before the current cursor
        position'...).

        I think what may be of more use here is better feedback by these commands,
        i.e. they should hilight the region they have just sorted etc.

        > I found "Load Session" but don't understand it (will have to rtfm what
        > it actually does -- where is the corresponding "Save Session"??)

        Docs on sessions have now been added, I have deliberately left Save Session
        out of the file menu as the session is saved automatically on exit (or loading
        another session - although this can be changed by session-setup) and therefore
        of much more limited use and the File menu is at its size limit.

        Steve
      • Jon Green
        ... Pass the buck! Yes I will sort this out, a easy fix. Agreed that it needs cleaning up. ... What was missing from the docs is in me.1 Basically a me
        Message 3 of 3 , Sep 4, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Steven Phillips wrote:
          > Tom,
          >
          > Thanks for your feedback:
          >
          >> Subject: [jasspa] 20060822 version - first impressions
          >> From: Thomas Hundt <thundt@...>
          >> Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2006, 10:08:10 PM
          >> To: jasspa@yahoogroups.com
          >> This seems to be a really nice release. Below are a bunch of nitpicking
          >> comments, take what you want from them.
          >
          >> Installation was easy enough.
          >> The Unix build process is cleaner. Fewer warnings.
          >> (Had one problem under SuSE 10 -- they put libtermcap.a in
          >> /usr/lib/termcap for some reason.)
          >
          > Does anyone know if adding -L/usr/lib/termcap to the CONSOLE_LIBS definition
          > could cause any side effects?, i.e. change linux2*.gmk makefiles to:
          >
          > ifneq "$(strip $(test))" ""
          > CONSOLE_LIBS = -L/usr/lib/termcap -ltermcap
          > else
          > CONSOLE_LIBS = -L/usr/lib/termcap -lncurses
          > endif
          >
          > Does this work?
          >
          >> I immediately screwed myself by trying out View>Main Menu, which makes
          >> the menu bar go
          >> away. It made me very happy, to get back an additional line of
          >> display, but I fumbled around, trying to get it back. (F1
          >> displays the menu. But there's no way to do so using purely the mouse.
          >> I was right clicking all over the place, trying. Other programs have
          >> this functionality under the context menu for the window, i.e., click on
          >> the program's icon in the top left corner. Example: putty.)
          >
          > We can't reliably change the main window (frame) context menu (consider
          > termcap!) but I have attempted to address this issue by popping up an info
          > dialog telling you how to get out of this problem which will only be shown
          > once per session.
          >
          > I have done a similar thing for the Advanced > Record Macro.
          >
          >> (A Windows program might have a toggleable checkmark next to
          >> this menu item, since "View Menu Bar" describes a toggleable state, not
          >> an action. After all, this menu item actually does "Hide Menu Bar".)
          >
          > I will prefix each of these items with the word 'Hide' or 'Show' (there are no
          > reasonably readable checkmarks in a termcap environment).
          >
          >> It seems the menus don't actually show the current bindings of the
          >> commands. (Example: I have F5 and F6 set to scroll the window up and
          >> down by one line. But the menu claims F5 is bound to File>Reread File.)
          >
          > This is correct, the listed key bindings are really aimed to help beginners
          > learn the weird key bindings that make ME so quick to use, they are currently
          > burnt in. Trying to do this dynamically probably won't work much better as
          > many commands are multiply bound so the results may be variable (e.g. C-_
          > listed instead of C-x u for undo etc)
          >
          >> I tried the FTP browser, and couldn't figure out how to get rid of it
          >> easily. (Ended up killing a bunch of buffers and closing a bunch of
          >> windows manually.) It's not like the file browser, where F10 toggles
          >> the thing.
          >
          > Use 'f10', the same is true for 'C-f10 (source control browser) - this is a
          > bit of an oddity but I like the fact this opens the ftp dialog even in ftp
          > mode. Should this be changed?
          >
          > "View>>White Characters" is an awkward label, "View Whitespace" is more
          >> conventional. Newbies might not know what "whitespace" means, but how
          >> many newbies use a programmers' editor.
          >
          > Done - the command display-white-chars has also been renamed to
          > display-whitespaces.
          >
          >> I'm going to have to read up on just what "Tools>Compare Windows" is
          >> supposed to do (since it does not give me a comparison of two windows I
          >> have open, which is what I expected).
          >
          > You should, I find this tool extremely useful.
          >
          > The "Tools>>Document Tools" submenu is awkwardly wide. When you pull the
          >> mouse down the Tools menu, it wants to get stuck on the Document Tools
          >> submenu (because, since it is so wide, it overlaps half of the Tools
          >> menu). This obviously depends on one's window size. (Mine default to
          >> like 80x40.) To shorten the text in the submenu: Maybe the word
          >> "justification" could be changed to "justify" ("Change to center
          >> justify") and think about what to do with that "[DEFAULT]" (which I
          >> don't understand -- will have to rtfm it, and also "justify gutter").
          >
          > This does need reducing in width, this is more Jon's area.

          Pass the buck! Yes I will sort this out, a easy fix. Agreed that it
          needs cleaning up.

          >
          >> I'm not sure I like the popup of the "Show Current Settings" box after
          >> one changes the justification mode. I mean if one just chose "Right"
          >> from the menu, is helpful to have a box pop up saying "You just chose
          >> 'R'." On the other hand, at least it's easy to dismiss, by hitting Enter.
          >
          >> "Sort Lines" really does "Sort Region Lines", doesn't it. If one
          >> doesn't have a region selected, it won't do anything, which might be
          >> confusing.
          >
          > There are many commands like this (Increase Indent seems fairly topical!) the
          > behaviour of these commands with respect to the set-mark region and the
          > currently shown selection is a difficult one to manage and how precisely
          > documenting their behaviour without failing foul of stupidly wide menus is
          > difficult (for example Format's 'All paragraphs to lines' should really be
          > labelled 'All paragraphs to lines except ones before the current cursor
          > position'...).
          >
          > I think what may be of more use here is better feedback by these commands,
          > i.e. they should hilight the region they have just sorted etc.
          >
          >> I found "Load Session" but don't understand it (will have to rtfm what
          >> it actually does -- where is the corresponding "Save Session"??)
          >
          > Docs on sessions have now been added, I have deliberately left Save Session
          > out of the file menu as the session is saved automatically on exit (or loading
          > another session - although this can be changed by session-setup) and therefore
          > of much more limited use and the File menu is at its size limit.
          >

          What was missing from the docs is in me.1

          Basically a me -c<mySessionName>, where <mySessionName> is the name of
          your session (i.e. "jon" for myself) will restore all of of the buffers,
          windows layout, point and mark positions, main window size etc. at the
          point where you last shut down.

          i.e. me -cjon

          restores the session to the state I was in when I exited ME the last
          time. For this to work then do not add any more files for editing to the
          command.

          i.e. me -cjon morefiles.txt

          restores the buffers but does not restore the window layout because this
          has been destroyed by the introduction of the new file "morefiles.txt".
          This type of command with another file behaves as the old "me -c"
          command without the session. If <mySessionName> is not specified then
          the buffers are restored but the window layout is not restored.

          You may now have multiple sessions, this is useful if you are working on
          different projects starting the editor with a different session means
          that the hilighting scheme may be different between 2 sessions i.e.
          "blue hue" and "sherwoord forest". Note that the color scheme should be
          changed with "change-scheme" and not with User Setup if you want the
          different sessions to have different color schemes.

          Given the above description I should probably add this to the
          documentation to make this a little clearer.

          Jon.

          > Steve
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