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Re: [Jain Friends] Darkness ?

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  • kris jain
    Life is a Maze. And a lighted maze is tough enough! ... Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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      Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!



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    • Sunjay N Jain
      Belive me DarkMaze is even tougher.
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Belive me DarkMaze is even tougher.

        On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 kris jain wrote :
        >
        >Life is a Maze. And a lighted maze is tough enough!
        >
        >
        >
        >---------------------------------
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      • Terence Price
        Sunjay, how are you. I hope that you and all others are fine. I feel I must disagree with you. Darkness is not a simple absence of light. Most people conceive
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Sunjay, how are you.  I hope that you and all others are fine.  I feel I must disagree with you.  Darkness is not a simple absence of light.  Most people conceive of light as a material substance.  It indeed is, but light is much more than that.  In fact, light is sat.  It is a form of sat that is involved in the process of transportation and teleportation - hence its magnificient ability to convey perfect representations of reality, even to the inclusion of perspectival differences.  All energy is light, but not all light is energy.  There is a light that is completely immaterial and inheres as a space, a resplendent space - not filled with light, but that is light itself.  This light that is a space is not energy, but the qualities of energy are directly derived from this spatial/immaterial light.  I am speaking of my own views at this point - all bliss, all joy, all that we deem beautiful, in so far as it is observed in the sense of vision inheres in light.  Ultimately, the greatest beauty is the light of beauty in which the most beautiful appears - not as a something, but as a nothing.  This light, this endless beauty always exist, even as our bliss always exist, but there are "veils" that create the states wherein our consciousness, respectively aligned and conditioned to those veils to not experience (hence are unconscious) of the truth that the veil hides.  The relationship between light and darkness is just that.  Darkness is a veil, a very real entity, not a simple absence of light.  This veil stands between infinite light, that is omnipresent in space and time and the limited forms of light that we observe streaming from the grand luminaries of the world, like the stars, the sun, the lightning of the clouds, and the flame upon the earth (Om bhur, om bhuvar, om svar).  The darkness, besides these luminaries is seemingly omnipresent.  The first light, that light that existed before darkness, the light that has power over darkness, that alone can cause the darkness to give birth to light, the "Father", if darkness be considered the "Mother", is the Unradiated Light, the Lux Occulta, the fullness of whose glory is only minutely seen in the whole of the host of shinning ones, in the sky, on earth, and every place inbetween, and outside of the many worlds.  You continue to exist, and existence cannot be divorced from bliss, even when it is twisted, what is in pain, is not only being destroyed, but if suffering abides, seeks destruction.  Your and my existence is established upon bliss, but we do not always experience that bliss because their is a veil, something that seperates our conditioned consciousness from it - this something also causes the rise of desire in us, a desire to re-experience that bliss, first as pleasures, fleeting, and then finally as well you know.  As an example, not trying to be gross, but believing I am speaking to a mature audience, I'll make mention of the pleasure experienced by a man in the act of making love.  The same pleasure, in so far as it is called orgasm, can be experienced by himself alone in ways any mature man is certainly familiar, albeit maybe not experienced.  This is because the pleasure that is experienced in orgasm does not inhere in the body of the individual with whom one engages in intimate relations, be your relation heterosexual or homosexual - the pleasure is a part of yourself, it is actually always there, but something is in the way, and the acts of intimate relation, seem to remove, temporarily, what is in the way - thereby affirming desire with the reward of the experience of a little pleasure.  If one could remove that barrier permanently, then desire would cease, those intimate relations would cease on the external would cease, and one would abide in bliss, an unending positive state, akin to pleasure, but far superior and greater than pleasure.  Something hides bliss, and induces in consciousness suffering, for which desire arises to lead to pleasure, to make existence in and with suffering bearable.  Albeit for some desire and pleasure themselves are a pain and they seek after bliss.  In the same way, I've heard mention that we are always in a state of dreaming.  What we call dreaming is only the lifting of the veil of the fact that we are always dreaming by means of the shift of consciousness into sleep (I think this is called svapna).  What we call being awake (jagrat) is in fact a veil to the fact that we are dreaming.  The veils are very real, and always present themselves as the negative or opposites of that which they cloak and permit but limited expression within their confines.  Darkness is a veil, not a non-entity, not utterly in disagreement with you, I'll make a statement of paradox and say darkness is one of those entities being a non-entity - World darkness is the World light not being World light, so that the lesser lights could come into existence, like the stars, sun, the multitude of flames, etc.

          Terence




          The rainbow is a circlet of color whose rays fill the worlds with endless splendor.  Facing the sun with eyes closed the aware behold the spinning hoop of rainbow light.  The unexamined life is never worth living, too much is missed when we bump through life half-asleep!
          >From: "Sunjay N Jain"
          >Reply-To: jainfriends@yahoogroups.com
          >To: jainfriends@yahoogroups.com
          >Subject: [Jain Friends] Darkness ?
          >Date: 1 Nov 2002 07:19:55 -0000
          >
          >JaiJainendra,
          >
          >I read some were "If you dezire to do any thing with darkness you
          >have to work with light. "
          >Darkness on it self has no existance, darkness is absense of
          >light. If it is pitch dark , if it could not have been darker,
          >single week little lamp dispells that darkness. I pity that mighty
          >all prevassive darkness that it runs away from that simple little
          >lamp.
          >
          >Same way if we want to somthing in ourlife we need to learn. For
          >Knowledge is light of mind.
          >
          >If we are angry, gloomy, sad, feeling dull , feeling useless, best
          >solution would be to stop, Sit , relax, Try to understand where I
          >am heading for , what is direction I have given to my life, or
          >somebody is giving direction to my life. Can I take control of my
          >life.
          >
          >In this fast paced world here now there is no dearth of
          >Infomation. It flows from all sides (like darkness ) If we dont
          >light the lamp ( Knowledge of destination & direction ) we will
          >get lost in this maze of Information.
          >
          >Sunjay
          >
          >
          >
          >


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        • Viren Vora [vviren@yahoo.com]
          Hi: Is this some kind of code going on here? Sorry I m not able to get it. Well, that s fine, no need to explain anyway, I respect your privacy. Have a nice
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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            Hi:

            Is this some kind of code going on here?

            Sorry I'm not able to get it. Well, that's fine, no need to explain anyway, I respect your privacy.

            Have a nice day.

            Viren

            http://www.samgogh.com/ecom/home.html

             Sunjay N Jain <jainsunjayn@...> wrote:

            Belive me DarkMaze is even tougher.

            On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 kris jain wrote :
            >
            >Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!
            >
            >
            >
            >---------------------------------
            >Do you Yahoo!?
            >HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now


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          • shrenik doshi
            too u also. kris jain wrote: Life is a Maze. And a lighted maze is tough enough! ... Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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              too u also.

               

               kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

              Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!



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            • kris jain
              obviously ur in the dark! shrenik doshi wrote: too u also. kris jain wrote: Life is a Maze. And a lighted
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                obviously ur in the dark!

                 shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:

                too u also.

                 kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!



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              • shrenik doshi
                ya re i am in dark! wats abt. u kris jain wrote: obviously ur in the dark! shrenik doshi wrote: too u also.
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                  ya re i am in dark! wats abt. u

                   

                   kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                  obviously ur in the dark!

                   shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:

                  too u also.

                   kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                  Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!



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                • Viren Vora [vviren@yahoo.com]
                  me too! http://www.samgogh.com/ecom/home.html kris jain wrote: obviously ur in the dark! shrenik doshi wrote:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                    me too!

                    http://www.samgogh.com/ecom/home.html

                     kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                    obviously ur in the dark!

                     shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:

                    too u also.

                     kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                    Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!



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                  • kris jain
                    get help from your friend sunjay shrenik doshi wrote: ya re i am in dark! wats abt. u kris jain wrote:
                    Message 9 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                      get help from your friend sunjay

                       shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:

                      ya re i am in dark! wats abt. u

                       kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                      obviously ur in the dark!

                       shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:

                      too u also.

                       kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:

                      Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!



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                    • kris jain
                      No argument there! Sunjay N Jain wrote:Belive me DarkMaze is even tougher. ... To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                        No argument there!

                         Sunjay N Jain <jainsunjayn@...> wrote:

                        Belive me DarkMaze is even tougher.

                        On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 kris jain wrote :
                        >
                        >Life is a Maze.  And a lighted maze is tough enough!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >---------------------------------
                        >Do you Yahoo!?
                        >HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now


                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                      • Sunjay N Jain
                        Thanks Kris, I wa wondering what kind of person U are, Why do U land in argument always. Life is short, There are already so many problems we have at hand ,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                          Thanks Kris,
                          I wa wondering what kind of person U are, Why do U land in
                          argument always.
                          Life is short, There are already so many problems we have at hand
                          , picking up new fight or argument will only add more confusion.
                          I dnt say hat you are wrong, but way you approch any subject make
                          others uncomfortable. In the process it hurts you within.
                          From your writting style it seems you are in hurry , a lot of
                          hurry. U are person with no time at hand, may be even 24 hours are
                          less for you.

                          You are an achiver, you have lots of energy, lots of dedication,
                          what it need is direction. You can be leader if you watch your
                          self , your action, instead of reacting learn to respond.

                          I assure you you will get over any kind of difficulty in your
                          life, I know you have non now, may be never in future. But man you
                          have capacity dont waste it on small group of 367 persons. you
                          have capabilities ot change the world, forget jains they will
                          never understand you.Nor will you near ones will ever understand
                          you. Word is he arena for you. Dont limit your self, with small
                          group who knows nothing.


                          Regards
                          Sunjay



                          On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 kris jain wrote :
                          >
                          >get help from your friend sunjay
                          > shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:
                          >ya re i am in dark! wats abt. u
                          >
                          > kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:
                          >obviously ur in the dark!
                          > shrenik doshi <shrenik_d1h1@...> wrote:
                          >too u also.
                          >
                          > kris jain <krishnajain@...> wrote:
                          >Life is a Maze. And a lighted maze is tough enough!
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >---------------------------------
                          >Do you Yahoo!?
                          >HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          >jainfriends-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          >Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >---------------------------------
                          >Do you Yahoo!?
                          >HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                          >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                          >Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >---------------------------------
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                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >---------------------------------
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                          >
                          >
                          >
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                          >Service.
                          >
                          >
                          >
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                        • kris jain
                          Sunjay, i ll take that as compliment! ok!! ... Do you Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                          Message 12 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                            Sunjay, i'll take that as compliment!  ok!!



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                          • kris jain
                            talking to urself Terence Price wrote: Sunjay, how are you. I hope that you and all others are fine. I feel I must disagree with
                            Message 13 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                              talking to urself
                              Terence Price <kheper_ra7@...> wrote:
                              Sunjay, how are you. I hope that you and all others are fine. I feel I must disagree with you. Darkness is not a simple absence of light. Most people conceive of light as a material substance. It indeed is, but light is much more than that. In fact, light is sat. It is a form of sat that is involved in the process of transportation and teleportation - hence its magnificient ability to convey perfect representations of reality, even to the inclusion of



                              ---------------------------------
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Sunjay N Jain
                              No it is not compliment but reality.
                              Message 14 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                                No it is not compliment but reality.

                                On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 kris jain wrote :
                                >
                                >Sunjay, i'll take that as compliment! ok!!
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >---------------------------------
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                              • Sunjay N Jain
                                Terence, Hi I am Fine, Reading your essay is very intresting.But i would like to comment - You are mixing many dimentions in single statement. Here when I was
                                Message 15 of 16 , Nov 1, 2002
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                                  Terence, Hi
                                  I am Fine, Reading your essay is very intresting.But i would like
                                  to comment - You are mixing many dimentions in single statement.
                                  Here when I was talking of darkness, that darkness that prevails
                                  in our actions and responses. I am not talking of light in
                                  scientfic point of view or mystical view.
                                  When I am confused or direction less I feeel lost, as lost in
                                  darkness, I am not able to see where I want to go, Path or Abys
                                  both seem sane to me. when I am able to set my direction for life
                                  , When i work with knowledge, convection that darkness is
                                  removed.

                                  I do not agree wih you when say dakness is viel that covers light.
                                  Can you uncover this viel without using light. If yes then will I
                                  agree your proposition. Darkness is not entiety for it does not
                                  have existance. I woul call it waiting or silence which provides
                                  space for things to happen.

                                  <<<<ou continue to exist, and existence cannot be divorced from
                                  bliss, even when it is twisted, what is in pain, is not only being
                                  destroyed, but if suffering abides, seeks destruction.>>>

                                  Sentence is too complicated for me? You Happiness or Joy and my
                                  happiness or Jaoy is personal, we will never see eye to eye in
                                  case understanding of happiness or joy, we will all have our views
                                  on what breings me joy. But we will be in agreement in sufering (
                                  for suffering is absense of joy) when in joy I feel light ,
                                  weightless ( every body must have felt it) what there for is
                                  needed that we overcome our sufferings.

                                  Sex does bring plessure I tend to agree with you on
                                  this<<<<<<<<<<<This is because the pleasure that is experienced in
                                  orgasm does not inhere in the body of the individual with whom one
                                  engages in intimate relations, be your relation heterosexual or
                                  homosexual - the pleasure is a part of yourself, it is actually
                                  always there, but something is in the way, and the acts of
                                  intimate relation, seem to remove, temporarily, what is in the way
                                  - thereby affirming desire with the reward of the experience of a
                                  little pleasure. If one could remove that barrier permanently,
                                  then desire would cease, those intimate relations would cease on
                                  the external would cease, and one would abide in bliss, an
                                  unending positive state, akin to pleasure, but far superior and
                                  greater than pleasure.>>>>>>>>

                                  Let us look wether heterosexual or mastrubation bring same
                                  amount of plessure heterosexual ? - may be yes.
                                  Then why would nature create different sexes?
                                  Pain or sufering happens when move away from path in to darkness,
                                  sex is not instument only of plessure but energy centre in
                                  beings.( Animanl, Plant, Humans) Sex centre produces energy for
                                  sustnance of body and continuation of our kind. I belive
                                  heterosexual or mastrubation will never fullfil this criteria. I
                                  am not advocating Hetrosexual realitionships, what I am sugesting
                                  that sex in part of this life . life is not part of sex.
                                  For us plessure is not ultimate goal, If we make that pleassure
                                  our ultimate goal then killer woul find that momentry happiness in
                                  killing somebody.

                                  Therefore sex has to looked at from the point of view of Life,
                                  direction to be choosen in life and destination ( Eternal hapiness
                                  // moksha// as per jainism.)





                                  On Fri, 01 Nov 2002 Terence Price wrote :
                                  >Sunjay, how are you. I hope that you and all others are fine. I
                                  >feel I must disagree with you. Darkness is not a simple absence
                                  >of light. Most people conceive of light as a material substance.
                                  >It indeed is, but light is much more than that. In fact, light
                                  >is sat. It is a form of sat that is involved in the process of
                                  >transportation and teleportation - hence its magnificient ability
                                  >to convey perfect representations of reality, even to the
                                  >inclusion of perspectival differences. All energy is light, but
                                  >not all light is energy. There is a light that is completely
                                  >immaterial and inheres as a space, a resplendent space - not
                                  >filled with light, but that is light itself. This light that is
                                  >a space is not energy, but the qualities of energy are directly
                                  >derived from this spatial/immaterial light. I am speaking of my
                                  >own views at this point - all bliss, all joy, all that we deem
                                  >beautiful, in so far as it is observed in the sense of vision
                                  >inheres in light. Ultimately, the greatest beauty is the light
                                  >of beauty in which the most beautiful appears - not as a
                                  >something, but as a nothing. This light, this endless beauty
                                  >always exist, even as our bliss always exist, but there are
                                  >"veils" that create the states wherein our consciousness,
                                  >respectively aligned and conditioned to those veils to not
                                  >experience (hence are unconscious) of the truth that the veil
                                  >hides. The relationship between light and darkness is just that.
                                  >Darkness is a veil, a very real entity, not a simple absence of
                                  >light. This veil stands between infinite light, that is
                                  >omnipresent in space and time and the limited forms of light that
                                  >we observe streaming from the grand luminaries of the world, like
                                  >the stars, the sun, the lightning of the clouds, and the flame
                                  >upon the earth (Om bhur, om bhuvar, om svar). The darkness,
                                  >besides these luminaries is seemingly omnipresent. The first
                                  >light, that light that existed before darkness, the light that
                                  >has power over darkness, that alone can cause the darkness to
                                  >give birth to light, the "Father", if darkness be considered the
                                  >"Mother", is the Unradiated Light, the Lux Occulta, the fullness
                                  >of whose glory is only minutely seen in the whole of the host of
                                  >shinning ones, in the sky, on earth, and every place inbetween,
                                  >and outside of the many worlds. You continue to exist, and
                                  >existence cannot be divorced from bliss, even when it is twisted,
                                  >what is in pain, is not only being destroyed, but if suffering
                                  >abides, seeks destruction. Your and my existence is established
                                  >upon bliss, but we do not always experience that bliss because
                                  >their is a veil, something that seperates our conditioned
                                  >consciousness from it - this something also causes the rise of
                                  >desire in us, a desire to re-experience that bliss, first as
                                  >pleasures, fleeting, and then finally as well you know. As an
                                  >example, not trying to be gross, but believing I am speaking to a
                                  >mature audience, I'll make mention of the pleasure experienced by
                                  >a man in the act of making love. The same pleasure, in so far as
                                  >it is called orgasm, can be experienced by himself alone in ways
                                  >any mature man is certainly familiar, albeit maybe not
                                  >experienced. This is because the pleasure that is experienced in
                                  >orgasm does not inhere in the body of the individual with whom
                                  >one engages in intimate relations, be your relation heterosexual
                                  >or homosexual - the pleasure is a part of yourself, it is
                                  >actually always there, but something is in the way, and the acts
                                  >of intimate relation, seem to remove, temporarily, what is in the
                                  >way - thereby affirming desire with the reward of the experience
                                  >of a little pleasure. If one could remove that barrier
                                  >permanently, then desire would cease, those intimate relations
                                  >would cease on the external would cease, and one would abide in
                                  >bliss, an unending positive state, akin to pleasure, but far
                                  >superior and greater than pleasure. Something hides bliss, and
                                  >induces in consciousness suffering, for which desire arises to
                                  >lead to pleasure, to make existence in and with suffering
                                  >bearable. Albeit for some desire and pleasure themselves are a
                                  >pain and they seek after bliss. In the same way, I've heard
                                  >mention that we are always in a state of dreaming. What we call
                                  >dreaming is only the lifting of the veil of the fact that we are
                                  >always dreaming by means of the shift of consciousness into sleep
                                  >(I think this is called svapna). What we call being awake
                                  >(jagrat) is in fact a veil to the fact that we are dreaming. The
                                  >veils are very real, and always present themselves as the
                                  >negative or opposites of that which they cloak and permit but
                                  >limited expression within their confines. Darkness is a veil,
                                  >not a non-entity, not utterly in disagreement with you, I'll make
                                  >a statement of paradox and say darkness is one of those entities
                                  >being a non-entity - World darkness is the World light not being
                                  >World light, so that the lesser lights could come into existence,
                                  >like the stars, sun, the multitude of flames, etc.
                                  >Terence
                                  >The rainbow is a circlet of color whose rays fill the worlds with
                                  >endless splendor. Facing the sun with eyes closed the aware
                                  >behold the spinning hoop of rainbow light. The unexamined life
                                  >is never worth living, too much is missed when we bump through
                                  >life half-asleep!
                                  >> From: "Sunjay N Jain"
                                  >>Reply-To: jainfriends@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >>To: jainfriends@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  >>Subject: [Jain Friends] Darkness ?
                                  >
                                  >>Date: 1 Nov 2002 07:19:55 -0000
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>JaiJainendra,
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>I read some were "If you dezire to do any thing with darkness
                                  >>you
                                  >
                                  >>have to work with light. "
                                  >
                                  >>Darkness on it self has no existance, darkness is absense of
                                  >
                                  >>light. If it is pitch dark , if it could not have been darker,
                                  >
                                  >>single week little lamp dispells that darkness. I pity that
                                  >>mighty
                                  >
                                  >>all prevassive darkness that it runs away from that simple
                                  >>little
                                  >
                                  >>lamp.
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>Same way if we want to somthing in ourlife we need to learn.
                                  >>For
                                  >
                                  >>Knowledge is light of mind.
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>If we are angry, gloomy, sad, feeling dull , feeling useless,
                                  >>best
                                  >
                                  >>solution would be to stop, Sit , relax, Try to understand where
                                  >>I
                                  >
                                  >>am heading for , what is direction I have given to my life, or
                                  >
                                  >>somebody is giving direction to my life. Can I take control of
                                  >>my
                                  >
                                  >>life.
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>In this fast paced world here now there is no dearth of
                                  >
                                  >>Infomation. It flows from all sides (like darkness ) If we
                                  >>dont
                                  >
                                  >>light the lamp ( Knowledge of destination & direction ) we
                                  >>will
                                  >
                                  >>get lost in this maze of Information.
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>Sunjay
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >
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