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Re: [JainList] Brahmacharya Question

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  • K.S Jain
    Dear Royalphillie, Jai-jinendra! Mr. Chander parkash Shah has given you the reply. I have to add only that jain philisophy allows sex with your legally adopted
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1 2:11 AM
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      Dear Royalphillie,
                   Jai-jinendra! Mr. Chander parkash Shah has given you the reply. I have to add only that jain philisophy allows sex with your legally adopted wife and not with others.If you indulge in sex with her only, that person can be called as
       jain.Now it is for you to decide as to  what you can do for your self.Either you want to live a corroupt life or want to a life of satisafaction within your self. The choice is yours.

      Chandraprakash Shah <chandraprakash.shah@...> wrote:
      Dear Friend,
       
      As mentioned by you, you wish to maintain tenets of Jainism then it will be difficult for you to live without marriage with your girl friend.
      Jainism strictly favours married life for Gruhastha (Layman and woman) to observe brahmacharya or celibecy.
       
       
      Regards,
       
       
      Chandraprakash shah

       
      On 2/25/07, royalphillie <royalphillie@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      Jai Jinendra everyone. I haven't posted in awhile mainly because most
      of my questions are being answered from books and contacts. I do have a
      question that I need help with. I am in a relationship with a girl that
      I am in love with. She doesn't really have any desire to get married,
      just live with someone. My question is this: Is it okay to have sex
      with her with these conditions i.e. there is mutual love but will
      probably never be a marriage? We also both do not have a desire to have
      children. This has been bugging me lately. I am trying to stick to the
      tenets of Jainism as best as I can, but this is definitley an obstacle
      I need help with. What should I do? Thank you all for any help you can
      provide.

      Regards,

      Justin

      PS-If it will help your answer, we have not had sex yet.





      Regards
      K.S Jain
      #1239,Urban Estate,
      Phase-II,
      Patiala,Punjab.
      147002
      Ph:0175-2285386 

                           Ahimsa Parmo Dharma!


      Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers

    • Ralexa333@aol.com
      Jai-jinendra!, I hope this goes better for you. she really prefers living with you and not marrying you? I guess you have to figure out what she has to offer a
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1 3:27 AM
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        Jai-jinendra!, I hope this goes better for you. she really prefers living with you and not marrying you? I guess you have to figure out what she has to offer a spiritual life with you! If she really wants something casual but could be good for the moment later you have difficultly with you and your spirituality! I don't even know if I have the knowledge to tell you as a woman. I don't want anything if it is not to last! I want marriage and happiness living as one. I hope someday I can find a Jain church in the city of Atlanta. I haven't been a Jain always. I found it 7 years ago. I think it would be a wonderful thing to be married to a Jain and him to have the same  beliefs. Good luck to you!
         
        Rebecca
         
        PS. Manish, Glad to touch base with you!




        AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
      • rajendra bhansali
        Marriage is neither a sacrament nor a religious duty for jains. Sex is one of the 4 primary sangya viz food, fear,collecting and sex which is common to all
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 1 6:52 AM
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          Marriage is neither a sacrament nor a religious duty for jains.
           
          Sex is one of the 4 primary sangya viz food, fear,collecting and sex which is common to all living beings.
          Passions bind us in the form of anger,greed,ego and manipulations. It is important to control these passions.
          Marriage is only an escape to reduce the passion but not a necessity.
          However one has to act responsibly so as not to cause hurt by mind, body and speech in the process of sex.
          Marriage is not the issue.
           
          Bhansali

           
          On 3/1/07, K.S Jain <kanwar_jain@...> wrote:

          Dear Royalphillie,
                       Jai-jinendra! Mr. Chander parkash Shah has given you the reply. I have to add only that jain philisophy allows sex with your legally adopted wife and not with others.If you indulge in sex with her only, that person can be called as
           jain.Now it is for you to decide as to  what you can do for your self.Either you want to live a corroupt life or want to a life of satisafaction within your self. The choice is yours.

          Chandraprakash Shah < chandraprakash.shah@...> wrote:
          Dear Friend,
           
          As mentioned by you, you wish to maintain tenets of Jainism then it will be difficult for you to live without marriage with your girl friend.
          Jainism strictly favours married life for Gruhastha (Layman and woman) to observe brahmacharya or celibecy.
           
           
          Regards,
           
           
          Chandraprakash shah

           
          On 2/25/07, royalphillie <royalphillie@... > wrote:
          Jai Jinendra everyone. I haven't posted in awhile mainly because most
          of my questions are being answered from books and contacts. I do have a
          question that I need help with. I am in a relationship with a girl that
          I am in love with. She doesn't really have any desire to get married,
          just live with someone. My question is this: Is it okay to have sex
          with her with these conditions i.e. there is mutual love but will
          probably never be a marriage? We also both do not have a desire to have
          children. This has been bugging me lately. I am trying to stick to the
          tenets of Jainism as best as I can, but this is definitley an obstacle
          I need help with. What should I do? Thank you all for any help you can
          provide.

          Regards,

          Justin

          PS-If it will help your answer, we have not had sex yet.

           




          Regards
          K.S Jain
          #1239,Urban Estate,
          Phase-II,
          Patiala,Punjab.
          147002
          Ph:0175-2285386 

                               Ahimsa Parmo Dharma!


          Here's a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers


        • Dr. Rakshak Mal Lodha
          respected sir neither any religion and not any law allows to do have sex with any person who is not married and no person shall reply here because non of here
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 1 9:11 AM
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            respected sir
            neither any religion and not any law allows to do have sex with any
            person who is not married and no person shall reply here because non
            of here member liked this thing which you asked i think you give more
            importance to sex rather than love because you do not have love with her
            when there is love than there are less chances of sex because we love
            God, parents, sisters, brother, wife, children and all relatives
            so it is my request that if you want sex then marry any girl and leave
            this girl and i hope what ever you will marry any girl both shall love
            each other later or sooner and your problem will be solved for ever
            regards




            --- In jainlist@yahoogroups.com, "royalphillie" <royalphillie@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jai Jinendra everyone. I haven't posted in awhile mainly because most
            > of my questions are being answered from books and contacts. I do have a
            > question that I need help with. I am in a relationship with a girl that
            > I am in love with. She doesn't really have any desire to get married,
            > just live with someone. My question is this: Is it okay to have sex
            > with her with these conditions i.e. there is mutual love but will
            > probably never be a marriage? We also both do not have a desire to have
            > children. This has been bugging me lately. I am trying to stick to the
            > tenets of Jainism as best as I can, but this is definitley an obstacle
            > I need help with. What should I do? Thank you all for any help you can
            > provide.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Justin
            >
            > PS-If it will help your answer, we have not had sex yet.
            >
          • Sandeep Jain
            Dear Mr. Justin, Jai Jinendra, I think, your doubt would have been cleared after the going through the mails of Sh.Chandra Prakash Ji & K.S.Jain Ji. As you
            Message 5 of 15 , Mar 1 8:08 PM
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              Dear Mr. Justin,

              Jai Jinendra,

              I think, your doubt  would have been cleared after the going through the mails of Sh.Chandra Prakash Ji & K.S.Jain Ji.

              As you have shown your interest in Jainism, which give the mental piece, self confidence to the followers, decision is yours.

              Regards,

              Sandeep Jain,
              Noida



              "K.S Jain" <kanwar_jain@...> wrote:
              Dear Royalphillie,
                           Jai-jinendra! Mr. Chander parkash Shah has given you the reply. I have to add only that jain philisophy allows sex with your legally adopted wife and not with others.If you indulge in sex with her only, that person can be called as
               jain.Now it is for you to decide as to  what you can do for your self.Either you want to live a corroupt life or want to a life of satisafaction within your self. The choice is yours.

              Chandraprakash Shah <chandraprakash. shah@gmail. com> wrote:
              Dear Friend,
               
              As mentioned by you, you wish to maintain tenets of Jainism then it will be difficult for you to live without marriage with your girl friend.
              Jainism strictly favours married life for Gruhastha (Layman and woman) to observe brahmacharya or celibecy.
               
               
              Regards,
               
               
              Chandraprakash shah

               
              On 2/25/07, royalphillie <royalphillie@ yahoo.com> wrote:
              Jai Jinendra everyone. I haven't posted in awhile mainly because most
              of my questions are being answered from books and contacts. I do have a
              question that I need help with. I am in a relationship with a girl that
              I am in love with. She doesn't really have any desire to get married,
              just live with someone. My question is this: Is it okay to have sex
              with her with these conditions i.e. there is mutual love but will
              probably never be a marriage? We also both do not have a desire to have
              children. This has been bugging me lately. I am trying to stick to the
              tenets of Jainism as best as I can, but this is definitley an obstacle
              I need help with. What should I do? Thank you all for any help you can
              provide.

              Regards,

              Justin

              PS-If it will help your answer, we have not had sex yet.





              Regards
              K.S Jain
              #1239,Urban Estate,
              Phase-II,
              Patiala,Punjab.
              147002
              Ph:0175-2285386 

                                   Ahimsa Parmo Dharma!

              Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers


              Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers

            • Your Friends For Ever= whitestar
              Dear jainism Intrested Friends, Subject of Love and Care and concern is a Base for Living in society as Gruhastha, Jainism is a way of Life and not Means of
              Message 6 of 15 , Mar 2 2:43 AM
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                Dear jainism Intrested Friends,
                Subject of Love and Care and concern is a Base for Living in society as Gruhastha,
                Jainism is a way of Life and not Means of Life,
                Even our Thirthankaras Had a Gruhastha Life as a Father,Son,Husband and were born as Krshtriyas and were Rulers and Had wives when they were Living a Common mans life but when they took Diksha they have Left everything and gone the way of a Bhikshu,
                They have Left everything once they took Diksha and even Today we have Sadhus,Acharayas the same way as used to be centuries ago, It is for a commom Man & Women to decide where he/she wants to go and then he can find a Route and Search the Place and Go there,............same way decide what you want ..... some small pleasure and Pay for it for Long Long Years in Narak Lok...,or Live a Asetic Life and avoid the common Sins created for Fun and Nothing else which lasts for some time and then it is Nothing.
                A Jain sadhus Life  is Devoid of Worldly pleasures and worldly Enjoyments and a Way to Attain Moksha and complete Knowledge And / or
                we common Man are Being a Jain and follower of Jain  Principles is the means to reach Moksha but only after you Leave the worldly Pleasures.,and take Diksha.
                Marriage is Created in the Recent Societies some Centuries ago but before that it was for the Ruler and persons with Might and Strength to have Many wives as he Can afford to Keep and Enjoy and then they all perished into darkness., as Son or daughter never Knew who there Father was??
                The 18 Papsthans are very well described and Sex is in the 4th place of Papstahnas (Called Maithun) and we should ask for Pardon of these act which is a Papsthan as Millions of Jivas are Created for some small pleasures.,and then one or Two Jivas Take a form of Panchindriya Jiva Atma as a Man or Woman and starts a life of Birth and Death and has to under go Pains and sufferings,
                Our Goals in Jainism is to stop Papsthans (Sins)where Ever possible and ask for Pardon- Mitchmidukakadam for the acts done with or with our Knowledge.,
                Jainism never has recomeneded Worldly pleasures or means for the same but it is in the process of forming Society from Nomads or wanderings that a Marriage is Must and this has been accepted all over in Modern times and yet there are Muslim countries who have Talak and also 4 wives and still belive it is Religion.,??
                There was a time when only Yugalik couples were Born and lived and died together and they too would get a Yugalik Babies.,
                Even today in South India there are Families who marry there Relations except own sisters to preserve the culture and Wealth.,?
                Just be carefull advocating anything unknown or any wrong thoughts...... as it is also Wrong,
                sorry if anything is not in Place and Mitchmidukadam.,
                Regards+Thanks.
                 
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 4:57 PM
                Subject: Re: [JainList] Brahmacharya Question



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              • Amit Shah
                Folks - Though I understand this topic can irk a few and make some others uncomfortable, I do believe we have not answered Royalphillie s doubts / questions
                Message 7 of 15 , Mar 2 8:54 AM
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                  Folks -
                  Though I understand this topic can irk a few and make
                  some others uncomfortable, I do believe we have not
                  answered Royalphillie's doubts / questions with
                  politeness and reason.

                  Royalphillie -
                  One of the most basic principles of Jainism is based
                  on the idea that - the pursuit of fulfillment of
                  desires causes anguish and prevents the mind of
                  becoming tranquil. Examples would be - people wanting
                  to making loads of money and still being unhappy OR
                  people desiring material things all the time and still
                  being unsatisfied... etc.

                  Marriage here is the not the issue per se, its the
                  idea of unscrupulous and unchecked desires thats in
                  question. Marriage, like someone said here is not
                  considered a necessity in Jainism, its just an escape
                  since sensual desires can be hard for laity to
                  control. But with Marriage comes a commitment to one
                  person which checks promiscuity and in turn, controls
                  desire. So, its sort of a means to an end.

                  This is exactly why live-in relationships are frowned
                  upon by Jains. I hope I have answered your question
                  satisfactorily. Continue your pursuit in Jainism and
                  be in the inquiry. If you are in US and want to talk
                  to someone about Jainism, feel free to call me @
                  847.769.3346

                  Thanks,
                  - Amit



                  --- Ralexa333@... wrote:

                  > Jai-jinendra!, I hope this goes better for you. she
                  > really prefers living
                  > with you and not marrying you? I guess you have to
                  > figure out what she has to
                  > offer a spiritual life with you! If she really wants
                  > something casual but could
                  > be good for the moment later you have difficultly
                  > with you and your
                  > spirituality! I don't even know if I have the
                  > knowledge to tell you as a woman. I
                  > don't want anything if it is not to last! I want
                  > marriage and happiness living
                  > as one. I hope someday I can find a Jain church in
                  > the city of Atlanta. I
                  > haven't been a Jain always. I found it 7 years ago.
                  > I think it would be a
                  > wonderful thing to be married to a Jain and him to
                  > have the same beliefs. Good
                  > luck to you!
                  >
                  > Rebecca
                  >
                  > PS. Manish, Glad to touch base with you!
                  >
                  >
                  <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR>
                  > AOL now offers free
                  > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                  > from AOL at
                  > http://www.aol.com
                  >
                • rajendra bhansali
                  i agrre with para 1 & 2 marriage is becoming a necessary evil thru of social fear. There is nothing wrong in a boy and girl well versed in Jain theory living
                  Message 8 of 15 , Mar 2 11:40 PM
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                    i agrre with para 1 & 2
                     marriage is becoming a necessary evil thru of social fear.
                    There is nothing wrong in a boy and girl well versed in Jain theory  living togethet and supporting each other in the pursuit of Nirvana. Are these persons not likely to be more responsible 9in ther own interest.
                    Social norms keep changing but the path to liberation shown in Jainism is logical and consistent.
                     
                    Live together and exercise restraint and remain away from Anger, greed/lust,Ego and deception.
                     
                    Will you be able to achieve detachment by marrying?
                     
                    Reduce your wants/desires, see ther futility and put limits to them and move towards the bliss.
                     
                    Marrying and producing children and consequent Mohniya Karma does not lead you to LIBERATION which is the purpose of life.
                     
                    Bhansali
                     
                     


                     
                    On 3/2/07, Amit Shah <mihir98@...> wrote:

                    Folks -
                    Though I understand this topic can irk a few and make
                    some others uncomfortable, I do believe we have not
                    answered Royalphillie's doubts / questions with
                    politeness and reason.

                    Royalphillie -
                    One of the most basic principles of Jainism is based
                    on the idea that - the pursuit of fulfillment of
                    desires causes anguish and prevents the mind of
                    becoming tranquil. Examples would be - people wanting
                    to making loads of money and still being unhappy OR
                    people desiring material things all the time and still
                    being unsatisfied... etc.

                    Marriage here is the not the issue per se, its the
                    idea of unscrupulous and unchecked desires thats in
                    question. Marriage, like someone said here is not
                    considered a necessity in Jainism, its just an escape
                    since sensual desires can be hard for laity to
                    control. But with Marriage comes a commitment to one
                    person which checks promiscuity and in turn, controls
                    desire. So, its sort of a means to an end.

                    This is exactly why live-in relationships are frowned
                    upon by Jains. I hope I have answered your question
                    satisfactorily. Continue your pursuit in Jainism and
                    be in the inquiry. If you are in US and want to talk
                    to someone about Jainism, feel free to call me @
                    847.769.3346

                    Thanks,
                    - Amit

                    --- Ralexa333@... wrote:

                    > Jai-jinendra!, I hope this goes better for you. she
                    > really prefers living
                    > with you and not marrying you? I guess you have to
                    > figure out what she has to
                    > offer a spiritual life with you! If she really wants
                    > something casual but could
                    > be good for the moment later you have difficultly
                    > with you and your
                    > spirituality! I don't even know if I have the
                    > knowledge to tell you as a woman. I
                    > don't want anything if it is not to last! I want
                    > marriage and happiness living
                    > as one. I hope someday I can find a Jain church in
                    > the city of Atlanta. I
                    > haven't been a Jain always. I found it 7 years ago.
                    > I think it would be a
                    > wonderful thing to be married to a Jain and him to
                    > have the same beliefs. Good
                    > luck to you!
                    >
                    > Rebecca
                    >
                    > PS. Manish, Glad to touch base with you!
                    >
                    >
                    <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR>
                    > AOL now offers free
                    > email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
                    > from AOL at
                    > http://www.aol.com.
                    >


                  • mehul_turakhia
                    Dear Royalphilli Jai jinendra. Many answers have come and major point out at avoiding such actions for gruhasta without marriage. Here is some broader
                    Message 9 of 15 , Mar 3 1:43 AM
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                      Dear Royalphilli

                      Jai jinendra.

                      Many answers have come and major point out at avoiding such actions
                      for gruhasta without marriage.

                      Here is some broader perspective.

                      Level 1.


                      It is very impressive that you have put such a sensitive question.
                      The issue is bugging you, shows your desire for an appropriate
                      solution and you rank such solution based on jain perspective much
                      higher than acting/ succumbing to desire . Still impressive is the
                      courage to put forward such question in a large forum like this.

                      It appears that you both have undergone discussions and long term
                      approach to the problem and consequential concurrence.

                      One should live ethical and acceptable life in society in general to
                      avoid aberration in our thought and action.

                      Level 2

                      Let me tell you a simple definition of 4 th vow of layman. It is 4 th
                      anu vrat of shravak ( Shravak is designation given to gruhastha
                      after adoption of the vows ). In this vow shravak abstains from sex
                      with partner other than legitimately married wife/husband (wives in
                      ancient times) and also restrains/ put limit to such activity with
                      one's own partner . It could have perspective in terms of mind,
                      speech, body and doing, making others do, and appreciating 3x 3 -
                      9 . Every one decides this limit individually. In fact preferrably
                      this vrat generally is taken jointly by both the partners .

                      There are also shravaks with out 4 th vrat also. i.e. one who follow
                      only 1 st vrat, only 2nd vrat, only 3 rd vrat , or dual combinations
                      like 1 &2, 1& 3, etc. triple combinations 1, 2 & 3 , 1,2, & 4 and so
                      on.
                      Thousands combinations exist.

                      However living a formally acceptable lifestyle not only enhances
                      one's value system, image etc. but also enhances the image of jain
                      principles to people around us.

                      This answers the question broadly. Level 1.

                      Level 3.


                      There are four stages of spiritual development broadly.

                      1. Marganusari ( as per earlier Acharyas ) . As per this one
                      should live a life which is acceptable in society and which follows
                      ethical lifestyle, Marriage gives rise to such commitment both in
                      western and eastern society and practice exists since long historical
                      period even as per non jain history . Hence legitimate marriage
                      appears a necessity . There are other virtues also associated with
                      this stage but not elaborated . Most of the Acharyas have called
                      such acts with person other than wife/ husband as a vyasan – called
                      par- stri-gaman. Similarly par- purush-gaman for ladies.


                      2. Samyaktvi . with right knowledge, belief . Here one
                      understands 9 basic tatvas. One is able to categorise each activity
                      or action under some head. Sex , theft, lieing, etc. are put under
                      ashrav / paap etc. One which attracts karma and gives bad result .
                      This kind of belief exists in varying degree , though one may not
                      follow it fully in practice. Strong in belief , weak in action.


                      3. Shravak. With added action to 4 th. Gunasthans. Here
                      abstainment starts. One understands the long term effects of karma
                      and consequences and desire for liberation is stronger which
                      motivates for action . one adopts different vows as per mental
                      capacity.


                      4. saints. Here there is higher abstainment, more detailed and
                      hence stricter outer code of conduct exists. Celibacy is total here
                      for both genders.

                      Level 4.

                      It may be noted there is very detailed description of such activity/
                      desire in jain literature. This is found in detail as the principles
                      are depicted by kevali who can see the bhaava of different souls.
                      Other way of developmental course is 14 gunasthans – 14 steps of
                      virtues.

                      There are 563 types of lives as per Jainism. The desire for sex is
                      found in all 563 whether in dormant or other form. It is termed as
                      rise (udaya) and presence ( satta ) of ved mohaniya karma. It is
                      found in one, two, three, four sensed lives etc. in dormant form.


                      The traces of such desire is found upto some part of 9 th gunasthan ,
                      though sainthood starts at 6 th gunasthan itself. The desire for
                      attachment exists upto 10 gunasthan end.

                      Trust I am able to do some justice.

                      Mehul



                      --- In jainlist@yahoogroups.com, "royalphillie" <royalphillie@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Jai Jinendra everyone. I haven't posted in awhile mainly because
                      most
                      > of my questions are being answered from books and contacts. I do
                      have a
                      > question that I need help with. I am in a relationship with a girl
                      that
                      > I am in love with. She doesn't really have any desire to get
                      married,
                      > just live with someone. My question is this: Is it okay to have sex
                      > with her with these conditions i.e. there is mutual love but will
                      > probably never be a marriage? We also both do not have a desire to
                      have
                      > children. This has been bugging me lately. I am trying to stick to
                      the
                      > tenets of Jainism as best as I can, but this is definitley an
                      obstacle
                      > I need help with. What should I do? Thank you all for any help you
                      can
                      > provide.
                      >
                      > Regards,
                      >
                      > Justin
                      >
                      > PS-If it will help your answer, we have not had sex yet.
                      >
                    • rajendra bhansali
                      Marriage to my mind is non-issue Multiple marriages were common in the time of tirthankers who were supposed to be good Shravak. Ritual have no place in
                      Message 10 of 15 , Mar 3 6:25 AM
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                        Marriage to my mind is non-issue
                        Multiple marriages were common in the time of tirthankers who were supposed
                        to be good Shravak.
                        Ritual have no place in Jainism.

                        Understanding of MOHNIYA karma is important.
                        Marriage has no sanctity.

                        Understand the 2 senario
                        (1) Boy and girl get married and engage into sex with passion without
                        restraint
                        (2) Boy and girl live together and exercise great restraint undestanding the
                        binding nature of the passions

                        Which option is less binding?

                        On 3/3/07, mehul_turakhia <mehul_turakhia@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Royalphilli
                        >
                        > Jai jinendra.
                        >
                        > Many answers have come and major point out at avoiding such actions
                        > for gruhasta without marriage.
                        >
                        > Here is some broader perspective.
                        >
                        > Level 1.
                        >
                        > It is very impressive that you have put such a sensitive question.
                        > The issue is bugging you, shows your desire for an appropriate
                        > solution and you rank such solution based on jain perspective much
                        > higher than acting/ succumbing to desire . Still impressive is the
                        > courage to put forward such question in a large forum like this.
                        >
                        > It appears that you both have undergone discussions and long term
                        > approach to the problem and consequential concurrence.
                        >
                      • ashokkumar sonegara
                        Dear freinds I introduce my self deravasi sewatmber Jain ASHOKKUMAR SONEGARA INSURANCE & MUTUAL FUND ADVISOR C-112 Sneh shivalaya CHSL C.S.Road No.2 Dahisar
                        Message 11 of 15 , Mar 3 9:34 PM
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                          Dear freinds
                          I introduce my self deravasi sewatmber Jain
                          ASHOKKUMAR SONEGARA
                          INSURANCE & MUTUAL FUND ADVISOR
                          C-112 Sneh shivalaya CHSL
                          C.S.Road No.2 Dahisar East
                          MUMBAI-400068
                          TEl-28480482 Mobile No.9819217698




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                        • Anish A Shah
                          Jai Jinendra, I agree with Mehulbhai and Manishbhai, By taking the vow of marriage, a person automatically practices Bhramacharya as far as other women are
                          Message 12 of 15 , Mar 6 10:48 AM
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                            Jai Jinendra,
                             
                            I agree with Mehulbhai and Manishbhai,

                            By taking the vow of marriage, a person automatically practices Bhramacharya as far as other women are concerned.

                            Without marriage what is going to stop the person from changing partners on a regular basis?

                            As far as scenario two is concerned, why would a boy and girl come together, if their purpose is exercising “great restraint and understanding the binding nature of passions?” Then what is the need to come together? Even if it is a hypothetical situation, it defies logic. It is like saying that you need to own weapons to understand non-violence.

                            Let us not complicate the issue. The question on hand is simple enough – do we have sex without marriage ? Is it compatible with the tenets of Jainism? The answer is obviously no – sex without marriage is not advised in Jainism.

                            Just imagine that your daughter or sister is asking you this question? Now what would you advise? I hope this puts the thing is better perspective.
                             
                            Regards,
                             
                            Anish Shah


                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:55 PM
                            Subject: Re: [JainList] Re: Brahmacharya Question some more views.

                            Marriage to my mind is non-issue
                            Multiple marriages were common in the time of tirthankers who were supposed
                            to be good Shravak.
                            Ritual have no place in Jainism.

                            Understanding of MOHNIYA karma is important.
                            Marriage has no sanctity.

                            Understand the 2 senario
                            (1) Boy and girl get married and engage into sex with passion without
                            restraint
                            (2) Boy and girl live together and exercise great restraint undestanding the
                            binding nature of the passions

                            Which option is less binding?

                            On 3/3/07, mehul_turakhia <mehul_turakhia@ yahoo.co. in> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Royalphilli
                            >
                            > Jai jinendra.
                            >
                            > Many answers have come and major point out at avoiding such actions
                            > for gruhasta without marriage.
                            >
                            > Here is some broader perspective.
                            >
                            > Level 1.
                            >
                            > It is very impressive that you have put such a sensitive question.
                            > The issue is bugging you, shows your desire for an appropriate
                            > solution and you rank such solution based on jain perspective much
                            > higher than acting/ succumbing to desire . Still impressive is the
                            > courage to put forward such question in a large forum like this.
                            >
                            > It appears that you both have undergone discussions and long term
                            > approach to the problem and consequential concurrence.
                            >

                          • mahendra shah
                            Sri Anishbhai answer to on going debate is very sharp & proper in the end & very practical & so i think with this answer the other parties can observe the
                            Message 13 of 15 , Mar 7 7:37 AM
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                              Sri Anishbhai answer to on going debate is very sharp & proper in the end & very practical & so i think with this answer the other parties can observe the situations in a better way good keep it up i too agree with all tht according to jainism basics diksha is the best solutions otherwise the marriage with one partner is advisable & even with them for doing sex both must hv aptidude,desire & mood simoultounously for sex otherwise tht is also borbidden taking it as the kind of rape only & observe all big teethies to avoid the sex etc so the big Q of begamy unmarried sex doesn't arise at all.
                              Thanks regards bye MKS

                               
                              On 3/7/07, Anish A Shah <anishshah19@...> wrote:

                              

                              Jai Jinendra,
                               
                              I agree with Mehulbhai and Manishbhai,

                              By taking the vow of marriage, a person automatically practices Bhramacharya as far as other women are concerned.

                              Without marriage what is going to stop the person from changing partners on a regular basis?

                              As far as scenario two is concerned, why would a boy and girl come together, if their purpose is exercising "great restraint and understanding the binding nature of passions?" Then what is the need to come together? Even if it is a hypothetical situation, it defies logic. It is like saying that you need to own weapons to understand non-violence.

                              Let us not complicate the issue. The question on hand is simple enough – do we have sex without marriage ? Is it compatible with the tenets of Jainism? The answer is obviously no – sex without marriage is not advised in Jainism.

                              Just imagine that your daughter or sister is asking you this question? Now what would you advise? I hope this puts the thing is better perspective.
                               
                              Regards,
                               
                              Anish Shah


                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2007 7:55 PM
                              Subject: Re: [JainList] Re: Brahmacharya Question some more views.

                               

                              Marriage to my mind is non-issue
                              Multiple marriages were common in the time of tirthankers who were supposed
                              to be good Shravak.
                              Ritual have no place in Jainism.

                              Understanding of MOHNIYA karma is important.
                              Marriage has no sanctity.

                              Understand the 2 senario
                              (1) Boy and girl get married and engage into sex with passion without
                              restraint
                              (2) Boy and girl live together and exercise great restraint undestanding the
                              binding nature of the passions

                              Which option is less binding?

                              On 3/3/07, mehul_turakhia < mehul_turakhia@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Dear Royalphilli
                              >
                              > Jai jinendra.
                              >
                              > Many answers have come and major point out at avoiding such actions
                              > for gruhasta without marriage.
                              >
                              > Here is some broader perspective.
                              >
                              > Level 1.
                              >
                              > It is very impressive that you have put such a sensitive question.
                              > The issue is bugging you, shows your desire for an appropriate
                              > solution and you rank such solution based on jain perspective much
                              > higher than acting/ succumbing to desire . Still impressive is the
                              > courage to put forward such question in a large forum like this.
                              >
                              > It appears that you both have undergone discussions and long term
                              > approach to the problem and consequential concurrence.
                              >


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