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Jainism growing?

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  • Maynard S. Clark
    Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to do. Some Jains seem to
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 8, 2002
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      Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to do.
      Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather sequester themselves among Jains only.)

      Discussion?

      Maynard S. Clark
    • sreepal5058
      Samyak Darshan Dear Shri.Maynard S.Clark, Let soul secure samyakthva. Indeed a timely note of things that are happening around us. That apart, you are in the
      Message 2 of 17 , Nov 1, 2002
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        Samyak Darshan

        Dear Shri.Maynard S.Clark,

        Let soul secure samyakthva.

        Indeed a timely note of things that are happening around us.

        That apart, you are in the discussion board quite some time and sure
        you would have understood the terminology of the preaching of world
        teacher - THIRTHANKAR is JINA DHARMA. May be it is being used in all
        discussion board submission.

        JAINISM is a word coined due to the influence of the other 'isms'
        like socialism, communalism etc., and loosly used with little
        significance. The right terminology is JINA DHARMA. For instance
        other largest following is styled as Christianity, Islam etc., and
        not as Christism or Islamism.

        It is neither a religion nor a 'ism'

        Hope and wish that this is understood in right spirit.

        On the submissin, any one is INDEPENDENT and has right in his
        decision making, as per the tenets of JINA DHARMA, whether to
        practise JINA DHARMA having born to the followers of JINA DHARMA or
        not.

        Automatically, one ceases to be a JAIN if he / she does not follow
        the tents of JINA DHARAMA and gets paid for what he thinks, much
        less for what he does. But no one will have any interest to go and
        tell him that he is not a JAIN, unless he chooses to seek someone's
        advice. No solmnizing or de-solmnizing ceremony in JINA DHARMA.

        Laws of nature - JINA DHARMA - is very clear and simple - action and
        reaction. It does not require any other one's sanction or decline.

        If he is concerned of himself and serious of his thinking and
        resultant actions, he can seek guidance from a "sadguru" - preceptor
        and then also he is free to decide his course.

        Once one is out of the boundary of JINA DHARMA and his feelings and
        expressions have very little relevance to reality or perhaps he
        needs to know the essence and purpose of JINA'S revelation.

        It will be interesting to know that JINA DHARMA has no beginning and
        no originator and has passed thro all turns and twists in the
        unimaginably beginningless past, for JINA DHARMA is the revelation
        of NATURE OF SUBSTANCE and is not dependent on any one's favour or
        blessings, including that of THIRTHANKAR for HE neither blesses nor
        curses.

        On "vegegarianism", it is only a starting and partial way of true
        living in the cycle of birth and death, as SOUL being the hero of
        the revelation of THRITHANKAR, eating,drinking and even inhaling and
        exhaling are defects and redundant for realisation of the SOUL -
        SLEF and consequent everlasting bliss and self preservation for ever
        and for ever.

        Thanks a lot for placing this currently excercising issue among many
        of us and obliging an oportunity to refresh.

        Now for the participants..

        Yours brotherly,
        sreepalan




        --- In jainlist@y..., "Maynard S. Clark" <MaynardClark@Y...> wrote:
        > Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any
        kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to
        do.
        > Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
        vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather
        sequester themselves among Jains only.)
        >
        > Discussion?
        >
        > Maynard S. Clark
      • Naresh Shah
        Dear Mr. Clark: Greetings. I sincerely disagree with your comments. I have been participating in INTERFAITH programs to make presentation on Jainism or to
        Message 3 of 17 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Dear Mr. Clark:
           
          Greetings. I sincerely disagree with your comments. I have been participating in INTERFAITH programs to make presentation on Jainism or to recite Jain Prayers. Similarly, JAINA and other Jain Centers were invited to recite Jain Prayers in the U.S. Congress & the State Assemblies. I think, we should share basic teachings of JAINISM with others when we are in the Western world. Mr. Michael Tobias has taken interest in JAINISM and has published a book on Jainism " LIFE FORCE- THE WORLD OF JAINISM. In JAINA conventions, speakers from other faiths are also invited. Here in Charleston, West Virginia, we have arranged several lecture programs of Jain speakers. These programs were open to all.
           
          Regards,
           
          Naresh R. Shah
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Maynard S. Clark
          Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:22 AM
          To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [JainList] Jainism growing?
           
          Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to do.
          Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather sequester themselves among Jains only.)

          Discussion?

          Maynard S. Clark


          JainNet http://www.jainnet.com - Comprehensive Resource on Jainism.

          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Elizabeth Lehmann
          Dear Mr. Clark, My experience with Jains in the USA is quite different from what you express. I began studying Jain philosophy in February of this year. By
          Message 4 of 17 , Nov 1, 2002
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            Dear Mr. Clark,

            My experience with Jains in the USA is quite different from what
            you express.

            I began studying Jain philosophy in February of this year. By
            June, I was ready to meet other Jains to further my study and to be
            in community with those following these teachings. I contacted one
            of the Jain web sites asking if Jains welcomed Westerners -- and to
            my delighted surprise, the webmaster is a Jain teacher in Atlanta, my
            home city! He invited me to his home for discussion. He and his
            family, my sister and I spent two (wonderful) hours in their home,
            connecting. His wife prepared food for us.

            My sister and I began attending the Atlanta Jain Center regularly
            soon afterward. Our greeting speaks volumes about Jain hospitality
            and inclusiveness. After our first yoga/meditation class, the
            teacher introduced us to the assembly as "his sisters". The
            President of the Center personally conducted us throughout the
            facility, introducing us to many people. Their greetings were all
            quite warm.

            Remembering our first visit, I recall one subtle event that
            touched us deeply. The teacher's teenaged daughter met us at the
            door and quietly stayed with us throughout our entire first visit.
            Looking back, I realize that she was there to answer our questions
            and help us in any way possible. Her presence was very comforting.

            We have had many other experiences which speak to Jain outreach.
            Jain books and CDs given to us freely, mentoring from new Jain
            friends in America and in India; JainList itself and more. And on
            the matter of Interfaith, the Jain teacher from Atlanta I mentioned
            above, offered his time to assist my Christian minister with
            Interfaith outreach activites during our very first meeting.

            In a sense, the rich Jain resources on the web served as an
            invitation - and the warmth and welcome my sister and I have received
            from Jains have completed the outreach. I am happy to say that in
            the last week, we received our confirmation of lifetime membership in
            the Atlanta Jain Center. I don't know if we are the first Westerners
            there -- we have never asked. But I know as others come, they will
            be welcomed.

            With warm regards,
            Elizabeth Lehmann


            --- In jainlist@y..., "Maynard S. Clark" <MaynardClark@Y...> wrote:
            > Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any
            kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to
            do.
            > Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
            vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather sequester
            themselves among Jains only.)
            >
            > Discussion?
            >
            > Maynard S. Clark
          • sreepal5058
            Samyak Darshan Dear Shri.Naresh Shah, Let soul secure samyakthva. Season s greetings to you and your dear and near at your end. The day of PARINIRVAAN OF
            Message 5 of 17 , Nov 1, 2002
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              Samyak Darshan

              Dear Shri.Naresh Shah,

              Let soul secure samyakthva.

              Season's greetings to you and your dear and near at your end.

              The day of "PARINIRVAAN OF MAHAVIR BAGHAVAAN", is a reminder to all
              the living beings in the universe of the inexhaustible "ananth
              gynan" - knowledge and "ananth virya" - strength of ourself -
              soul, is it not?

              Well on this day let there be resolve to be a true follower
              of "JINA" and it is not a day of clebrations but observance.

              Well, choice is one's.

              Now turning to the submission in reply to Shri.Maynard S.Clark, it
              appears that "simple disagreement" is the reply and would you really
              be satisfied if you are the one in his place.

              Hope, certainly you would also say "simple disagreement", is it not?

              Secondly, the conferences and seminars you had mentioned no doubt
              are docile ways and are attened by you as well as by him too but his
              statement quote:
              "Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
              vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather
              sequester themselves among Jains only.)"unquote,
              does it not go to say that they (conferences etc.)remain a
              sermanising center with JAINS if not Shri.Maynard S.Clark.

              May be his statement is short of testimony as it appears to be
              sweeping and well it is upto you to place this as a subject for the
              seminar and get a verdict on it, if you and the JAINS overseas are
              serious of the "growth" of JINA DHARMA in that part of the globe.

              Real answer to JAINS overseas would be to practice than preach would
              you agree?

              "Preach not before practice" is the WAY of preaching of infinite
              JINA BHAGAVAANS,Acharyaas, Munis, shravaks, and shravikaas.

              Any doubt?

              Visual perception is the best medium of preaching.

              Now for the participant.

              Yours brotherly,
              sreepalan


              --- In jainlist@y..., "Naresh Shah" <Naresh-IndiraShah@m...> wrote:
              > Dear Mr. Clark:
              >
              > Greetings. I sincerely disagree with your comments. I have been
              participating in INTERFAITH programs to make presentation on Jainism
              or to recite Jain Prayers. Similarly, JAINA and other Jain Centers
              were invited to recite Jain Prayers in the U.S. Congress & the State
              Assemblies. I think, we should share basic teachings of JAINISM with
              others when we are in the Western world. Mr. Michael Tobias has
              taken interest in JAINISM and has published a book on Jainism " LIFE
              FORCE- THE WORLD OF JAINISM. In JAINA conventions, speakers from
              other faiths are also invited. Here in Charleston, West Virginia, we
              have arranged several lecture programs of Jain speakers. These
              programs were open to all.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Naresh R. Shah
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Maynard S. Clark
              > Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:22 AM
              > To: jainlist@y...
              > Subject: [JainList] Jainism growing?
              >
              > Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any
              kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to
              do.
              > Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
              vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather
              sequester themselves among Jains only.)
              >
              > Discussion?
              >
              > Maynard S. Clark
              >
              >
              > JainNet http://www.jainnet.com - Comprehensive Resource on
              Jainism.
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            • R.K. MEHTA
              Dear Ms. Elizabeth, Jai Jinendra, I am a new entrant to this discussion group and have no knowledge about the finer points of my own religion. Just to learn
              Message 6 of 17 , Nov 1, 2002
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                Dear Ms. Elizabeth, Jai Jinendra,

                I am a new entrant to this discussion group and have no knowledge about the finer points of my own religion. Just to learn them I have joined this group.
                But one basic fact I now is that it is true that anyone who tries to connect to a jain will be welcomed. It is true of all Indians also. But please note that a Jain will not go out of his way to introduce to his religion. He will respond freely if anyone raises any question of shows any interest. To a Jain religion is a very personal matter. He will never advertise his faith.

                I hope this explains to some extent Mr. Clark's query also.
                Neeta Mehta

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Elizabeth Lehmann [SMTP:lehmann@...]
                Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:33 AM
                To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?


                Dear Mr. Clark,

                My experience with Jains in the USA is quite different from what
                you express.

                I began studying Jain philosophy in February of this year. By
                June, I was ready to meet other Jains to further my study and to be
                in community with those following these teachings. I contacted one
                of the Jain web sites asking if Jains welcomed Westerners -- and to
                my delighted surprise, the webmaster is a Jain teacher in Atlanta, my
                home city! He invited me to his home for discussion. He and his
                family, my sister and I spent two (wonderful) hours in their home,
                connecting. His wife prepared food for us.

                My sister and I began attending the Atlanta Jain Center regularly
                soon afterward. Our greeting speaks volumes about Jain hospitality
                and inclusiveness. After our first yoga/meditation class, the
                teacher introduced us to the assembly as "his sisters". The
                President of the Center personally conducted us throughout the
                facility, introducing us to many people. Their greetings were all
                quite warm.

                Remembering our first visit, I recall one subtle event that
                touched us deeply. The teacher's teenaged daughter met us at the
                door and quietly stayed with us throughout our entire first visit.
                Looking back, I realize that she was there to answer our questions
                and help us in any way possible. Her presence was very comforting.

                We have had many other experiences which speak to Jain outreach.
                Jain books and CDs given to us freely, mentoring from new Jain
                friends in America and in India; JainList itself and more. And on
                the matter of Interfaith, the Jain teacher from Atlanta I mentioned
                above, offered his time to assist my Christian minister with
                Interfaith outreach activites during our very first meeting.

                In a sense, the rich Jain resources on the web served as an
                invitation - and the warmth and welcome my sister and I have received
                from Jains have completed the outreach. I am happy to say that in
                the last week, we received our confirmation of lifetime membership in
                the Atlanta Jain Center. I don't know if we are the first Westerners
                there -- we have never asked. But I know as others come, they will
                be welcomed.

                With warm regards,
                Elizabeth Lehmann


                --- In jainlist@y..., "Maynard S. Clark" <MaynardClark@Y...> wrote:
                > Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any
                kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to
                do.
                > Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
                vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather sequester
                themselves among Jains only.)
                >
                > Discussion?
                >
                > Maynard S. Clark




                JainNet http://www.jainnet.com - Comprehensive Resource on Jainism.

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • VIJAY MEHTA
                Dear Brothers & Sisters, Jai Jinendra, Do Jains should expect PRACHAR - (making known to everyone) of Jainism or PRABHAV - (touching heart of everyone)?
                Message 7 of 17 , Nov 2, 2002
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                  Dear Brothers & Sisters,

                  Jai Jinendra,

                  Do Jains should expect "PRACHAR" - (making known to everyone) of Jainism or
                  "PRABHAV" - (touching heart of everyone)?

                  Are we doing "PRACHAR" or "PRABHAV" of Jainism through websites?

                  I expect paricipants to deal with this subject in detail as I see that no
                  distinction is made sometime between the two.

                  Vijay Mehta



                  >From: "R.K. MEHTA" <mehtarkm@...>
                  >Reply-To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: "'jainlist@yahoogroups.com'" <jainlist@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: RE: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                  >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:27:54 +0400
                  >
                  >Dear Ms. Elizabeth, Jai Jinendra,
                  >
                  >I am a new entrant to this discussion group and have no knowledge about the
                  >finer points of my own religion. Just to learn them I have joined this
                  >group.
                  >But one basic fact I now is that it is true that anyone who tries to
                  >connect to a jain will be welcomed. It is true of all Indians also. But
                  >please note that a Jain will not go out of his way to introduce to his
                  >religion. He will respond freely if anyone raises any question of shows any
                  >interest. To a Jain religion is a very personal matter. He will never
                  >advertise his faith.
                  >
                  >I hope this explains to some extent Mr. Clark's query also.
                  >Neeta Mehta
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Elizabeth Lehmann [SMTP:lehmann@...]
                  >Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:33 AM
                  >To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                  >
                  >
                  >Dear Mr. Clark,
                  >
                  > My experience with Jains in the USA is quite different from what
                  >you express.
                  >
                  > I began studying Jain philosophy in February of this year. By
                  >June, I was ready to meet other Jains to further my study and to be
                  >in community with those following these teachings. I contacted one
                  >of the Jain web sites asking if Jains welcomed Westerners -- and to
                  >my delighted surprise, the webmaster is a Jain teacher in Atlanta, my
                  >home city! He invited me to his home for discussion. He and his
                  >family, my sister and I spent two (wonderful) hours in their home,
                  >connecting. His wife prepared food for us.
                  >
                  > My sister and I began attending the Atlanta Jain Center regularly
                  >soon afterward. Our greeting speaks volumes about Jain hospitality
                  >and inclusiveness. After our first yoga/meditation class, the
                  >teacher introduced us to the assembly as "his sisters". The
                  >President of the Center personally conducted us throughout the
                  >facility, introducing us to many people. Their greetings were all
                  >quite warm.
                  >
                  > Remembering our first visit, I recall one subtle event that
                  >touched us deeply. The teacher's teenaged daughter met us at the
                  >door and quietly stayed with us throughout our entire first visit.
                  >Looking back, I realize that she was there to answer our questions
                  >and help us in any way possible. Her presence was very comforting.
                  >
                  > We have had many other experiences which speak to Jain outreach.
                  >Jain books and CDs given to us freely, mentoring from new Jain
                  >friends in America and in India; JainList itself and more. And on
                  >the matter of Interfaith, the Jain teacher from Atlanta I mentioned
                  >above, offered his time to assist my Christian minister with
                  >Interfaith outreach activites during our very first meeting.
                  >
                  > In a sense, the rich Jain resources on the web served as an
                  >invitation - and the warmth and welcome my sister and I have received
                  >from Jains have completed the outreach. I am happy to say that in
                  >the last week, we received our confirmation of lifetime membership in
                  >the Atlanta Jain Center. I don't know if we are the first Westerners
                  >there -- we have never asked. But I know as others come, they will
                  >be welcomed.
                  >
                  >With warm regards,
                  >Elizabeth Lehmann
                  >
                  >
                  >--- In jainlist@y..., "Maynard S. Clark" <MaynardClark@Y...> wrote:
                  > > Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any
                  >kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to
                  >do.
                  > > Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
                  >vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather sequester
                  >themselves among Jains only.)
                  > >
                  > > Discussion?
                  > >
                  > > Maynard S. Clark
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >JainNet http://www.jainnet.com - Comprehensive Resource on Jainism.
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  ><< attach5 >>




                  _________________________________________________________________
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                • nishith shah
                  PRANAM Vijaybhai At some time we have to do PRACHAR from our best knowledge from Vyakhayan for JAIN & JAINETER.And then we can make PRABHAV of Jainism thro
                  Message 8 of 17 , Nov 2, 2002
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                    PRANAM

                    Vijaybhai

                    At some time we have to do PRACHAR from our best knowledge from Vyakhayan for JAIN & JAINETER.And then we can make PRABHAV of Jainism thro' websites or Discussions.

                    After all our aim should be ShshanPrabhavana.

                    PRANAM

                    Nishith shah

                    VIJAY MEHTA wrote:

                    Dear Brothers & Sisters,

                    Jai Jinendra,

                    Do Jains should expect "PRACHAR" - (making known to everyone) of Jainism or
                    "PRABHAV" - (touching heart of everyone)?

                    Are we doing "PRACHAR" or "PRABHAV" of Jainism through websites?

                    I expect paricipants to deal with this subject in detail as I see that no
                    distinction is made sometime between the two.

                    Vijay Mehta



                    >From: "R.K. MEHTA"
                    >Reply-To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: "'jainlist@yahoogroups.com'"
                    >Subject: RE: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                    >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 11:27:54 +0400
                    >
                    >Dear Ms. Elizabeth, Jai Jinendra,
                    >
                    >I am a new entrant to this discussion group and have no knowledge about the
                    >finer points of my own religion. Just to learn them I have joined this
                    >group.
                    >But one basic fact I now is that it is true that anyone who tries to
                    >connect to a jain will be welcomed. It is true of all Indians also. But
                    >please note that a Jain will not go out of his way to introduce to his
                    >religion. He will respond freely if anyone raises any question of shows any
                    >interest. To a Jain religion is a very personal matter. He will never
                    >advertise his faith.
                    >
                    >I hope this explains to some extent Mr. Clark's query also.
                    >Neeta Mehta
                    >
                    >-----Original Message-----
                    >From: Elizabeth Lehmann [SMTP:lehmann@...]
                    >Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 12:33 AM
                    >To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                    >
                    >
                    >Dear Mr. Clark,
                    >
                    > My experience with Jains in the USA is quite different from what
                    >you express.
                    >
                    > I began studying Jain philosophy in February of this year. By
                    >June, I was ready to meet other Jains to further my study and to be
                    >in community with those following these teachings. I contacted one
                    >of the Jain web sites asking if Jains welcomed Westerners -- and to
                    >my delighted surprise, the webmaster is a Jain teacher in Atlanta, my
                    >home city! He invited me to his home for discussion. He and his
                    >family, my sister and I spent two (wonderful) hours in their home,
                    >connecting. His wife prepared food for us.
                    >
                    > My sister and I began attending the Atlanta Jain Center regularly
                    >soon afterward. Our greeting speaks volumes about Jain hospitality
                    >and inclusiveness. After our first yoga/meditation class, the
                    >teacher introduced us to the assembly as "his sisters". The
                    >President of the Center personally conducted us throughout the
                    >facility, introducing us to many people. Their greetings were all
                    >quite warm.
                    >
                    > Remembering our first visit, I recall one subtle event that
                    >touched us deeply. The teacher's teenaged daughter met us at the
                    >door and quietly stayed with us throughout our entire first visit.
                    >Looking back, I realize that she was there to answer our questions
                    >and help us in any way possible. Her presence was very comforting.
                    >
                    > We have had many other experiences which speak to Jain outreach.
                    >Jain books and CDs given to us freely, mentoring from new Jain
                    >friends in America and in India; JainList itself and more. And on
                    >the matter of Interfaith, the Jain teacher from Atlanta I mentioned
                    >above, offered his time to assist my Christian minister with
                    >Interfaith outreach activites during our very first meeting.
                    >
                    > In a sense, the rich Jain resources on the web served as an
                    >invitation - and the warmth and welcome my sister and I have received
                    >from Jains have completed the outreach. I am happy to say that in
                    >the last week, we received our confirmation of lifetime membership in
                    >the Atlanta Jain Center. I don't know if we are the first Westerners
                    >there -- we have never asked. But I know as others come, they will
                    >be welcomed.
                    >
                    >With warm regards,
                    >Elizabeth Lehmann
                    >
                    >
                    >--- In jainlist@y..., "Maynard S. Clark" wrote:
                    > > Here in the USA many (but not all) Jains seem to feel that (any
                    >kind of?) (specifically Jain) outreach is inappropriate for Jains to
                    >do.
                    > > Some Jains seem to feel that promoting anything (even
                    >vegetarianism) is inappropriate. (Perhaps they would rather sequester
                    >themselves among Jains only.)
                    > >
                    > > Discussion?
                    > >
                    > > Maynard S. Clark
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >JainNet http://www.jainnet.com - Comprehensive Resource on Jainism.
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    ><< attach5 >>




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                  • ymalaiya
                    In terms of fraction of population in India, Jainism is not growing. In 1991 census of India, the Jain population was 3,352,706, which represents 0.40% (i.e.
                    Message 9 of 17 , Nov 2, 2002
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                      In terms of fraction of population in India, Jainism is not growing.

                      In 1991 census of India, the Jain population was 3,352,706, which
                      represents 0.40% (i.e. less than half of 1%). The numbers for
                      religions for 2001 census have not been released yet.

                      I believe that the census numbers are fairly accurate. I have not
                      come across any significant evidence that suggests that
                      census results are wrong.

                      In 1981, the Jains were 0.482% of India's population. My guess is
                      that current fraction of Jain population is less than 0.4%. I include
                      past data below.

                      I will not be surprized if we find Jain population declining in
                      terms of absolute numbers as well, in near future. It may already
                      have started to happen, although it is hard to say for sure.

                      Main reason: for a group to maintain the same population, the average
                      number of children per couple must exceed 2. Two children per couple
                      will cause population to decline.

                      Yashwant


                      > British period:
                      > Year % Jain
                      > 1881 0.48%
                      > 1891 0.49%
                      > 1901 0.45%
                      > 1911 0.40%
                      > 1921 0.37%
                      > 1931 0.36%
                      > 1941 0.37%
                      >
                      > 3. Free India:
                      >
                      > India was partitioned in 1947.
                      >
                      > 1951 0.45%
                      > 1961 0.46%
                      > 1971 0.47%
                      > 1981 0.482%
                      > 1991 0.396%
                    • VIJAY MEHTA
                      Dear Brothers & Sisters, Jai Jinendra, At no place in Jain Shashtra, Jains are required to do anything which has an element of PRACHAR . It is only
                      Message 10 of 17 , Nov 3, 2002
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                        Dear Brothers & Sisters,

                        Jai Jinendra,

                        At no place in Jain Shashtra, Jains are required to do anything which has an
                        element of "PRACHAR". It is only "PRABHAVNA" which is to be made of Jain
                        Shashan.

                        "PRABHAVNA" would mean that one's heart is touched by the Jain principles
                        and starts preaching it's principles, may be slowly. But if anything that
                        has effect of making known to everyone the principles of jainism and nothing
                        beyond that, than at best it can be considered as only "PRACHAR" and it has
                        been given no place in Jain shashan.

                        To make "PRABHAV" effective, one's charitra has to be at a higher level.
                        Even to take simple example of any procession(Rath yatra) that takes place,
                        it is the element of giving up money/wealth for the reason of Jain Shashan
                        which makes more effect on others.The exhorbitant expenses made to make the
                        procession is only the medium to show the element of Tyag of Jains for Jain
                        Shashan. It makes others think on Jain Shashan and is very much preliminary.
                        Their sad-bhav for Jains becomes cause for their attaining Jain Dharma in
                        future.

                        When Jain Muni's are present in such procession, Jainter (non-jains) would
                        see Jain Shravak's spending so much money in the procession and at the same
                        time look at tyagi Jain muni's (This way both are tyagi). This will create
                        sad-bhav in their heart. That is one kind of Shashan Prabhavna.

                        Even when say Jain travels in say train and it's time for the sunset. He
                        starts taking his dinner.(no doubt offers others also). This creates more
                        Shashan Prabhavna because it gives a feeling of sadbhav in the minds of
                        others.

                        At the same time look at one who says that he is Jain but in gatherings or
                        even in public ( like in train) eats at late night without showing any kind
                        of an apology on his face. Imagine action like this that can have effect on
                        prabhav of Jain Shashan.

                        Needless to say that our Shashan is still respected for Jain Muni's and
                        handful of good Shravak. Otherwise what is Jain Dharma if it is only with
                        spreading knowledge and nothing beyond that.

                        I know that I have tried to spell out my thought through web and I am aware
                        that it is not going to give right impact, But I find this as a medium to
                        raise the voice against "PRACHAR" only as I am in favour of
                        "PRABHAV".

                        Now for the participants.

                        Vijay Mehta


                        >From: nishith shah <nshahmaulik@...>
                        >Reply-To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                        >To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                        >Subject: RE: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                        >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 02:08:45 -0800 (PST)
                        >
                        >PRANAM
                        >Vijaybhai
                        >At some time we have to do PRACHAR from our best knowledge from Vyakhayan
                        >for JAIN & JAINETER.And then we can make PRABHAV of Jainism thro' websites
                        >or Discussions.
                        >After all our aim should be ShshanPrabhavana.
                        >PRANAM
                        >Nishith shah
                        > VIJAY MEHTA <vmc_vijay@...> wrote:Dear Brothers & Sisters,
                        >
                        >Jai Jinendra,
                        >
                        >Do Jains should expect "PRACHAR" - (making known to everyone) of Jainism or
                        >"PRABHAV" - (touching heart of everyone)?
                        >
                        >Are we doing "PRACHAR" or "PRABHAV" of Jainism through websites?
                        >
                        >I expect paricipants to deal with this subject in detail as I see that no
                        >distinction is made sometime between the two.
                        >
                        >Vijay Mehta
                        >


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                      • nileshkumar kothari
                        nammo to jin shashan, we are all in a state of evolution .... THIS one life is only one stretch there are jain oriented beings at diffferent levels of
                        Message 11 of 17 , Nov 3, 2002
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                          nammo to jin shashan,

                          we are all in a state of 'evolution' .... THIS one life is only one stretch

                          there are jain oriented beings at diffferent levels of acceptance & understanding

                          simply put this is to do with karma that one has attained & samay ordained nature

                          of souls......virtually most analysis & discussions can carry on to be very complex

                          but to simplify WHY there are xyz number of JAINS or WHAT & WHY they follow

                          certain tenets usually would be long discussion.....obviously, to try & educate many

                          or all the JAINS  ( or all humans living ) to the same understandings of this wonderful

                          JAIN religion is not ever easy

                          e.g.  - there are jains who would do a lot of daily jain routines - pray , be vegetarian

                          to a good extent, go to jain temple/functions....but when asked what does nammo

                          arrihantam mean ..the reply given is it the name of a god...what is siddha ...the reply

                          that is the name of another god

                          these are real life happenins

                          "at any point in time the knowledgeability of a soul is pre-ordained"

                          which also goes with the fact why mahavir attains keval gnyaan in that life & not in a

                          previous life...& also who would be 24 tirthankars in the next cycle of jain eras

                          (chovisi)

                          IS THIS A FACT ? ...are we pre-ordained AS WE GO ALONG LIFE TO LIFE

                          (  knowledgeability is to do with the "karma cloud" which covers the soul )

                          IF the pre-ordained nature of souls is even partly true...in that case what is the best

                          probable plus that a jin shashan follower can attain in this one life& how

                          I welcome discussion .. including from Sri Sreepalan & Sri Vijay Mehta



                                NILESHKUMAR  KOTHARI

                          jinatma@...



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                        • Vijay Mehta
                          Dear Nileshbhai Kothari, Jai Jinendra, You said we are all in a state of evolution What is meant by evolution ? Atmik Vikas (Progress of our soul)?.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Nov 4, 2002
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                            Dear Nileshbhai Kothari,
                             
                            Jai Jinendra,
                             
                            You said "we are all in a state of 'evolution' "
                             
                            What is meant by "evolution"? Atmik Vikas (Progress of our soul)?. There are 14 Gunasthan described. Where do we stand?.
                             
                            I do not dispute your experience with Jains . But that does not reduces the importance of Jin-Puja or all other differenct Dharma Anushthana.  Every anushthana has an objective. Can you tell me why "Namo" is kept before "Arihantanm" and not like "Arihantanm Namo"? "Namo" is a root of Vinaya Guna and once "Vinay" Guna is achieved it has a capability of bringing in all other gunas.  The first adhyanan on Uttardhyana is on Vinay Guna.
                             
                            Now what is Jin-puja and Jin-bhakti? It is expression of Vinay Guna. Rightly stated by you that it is possible that jains may not know who is Arihant and still carrying on Jin-puja but mind that this Vinay Guna is sufficient for brininging in more gunas in their life.
                             
                            That opens other area of discussion. It is said that "GyanKriyabhayao Moksha". Moksha is achieved by Gyan and Kriya both and not by single Gyan or single Kriya.
                             
                            Our Gachhadhipati Acharya Jaighoshsuriswarji Maharaj Saheb once said to me: "Gyan and Kriya are two sides of a scale. As and when Gyan increases, increase your Kriya. Else, imbalance would make you to fall. At the same time as you increase your Kriya increase your Gyan."
                             
                            One should not undermine the role of either.
                             
                             
                            With regards,
                             
                            Vijay Mehta
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:27 PM
                            Subject: Re: [JainList] Jainism growing?

                            nammo to jin shashan,

                            we are all in a state of 'evolution' .... THIS one life is only one stretch

                            there are jain oriented beings at diffferent levels of acceptance & understanding

                            simply put this is to do with karma that one has attained & samay ordained nature

                            of souls......virtually most analysis & discussions can carry on to be very complex

                            but to simplify WHY there are xyz number of JAINS or WHAT & WHY they follow

                            certain tenets usually would be long discussion.....obviously, to try & educate many

                            or all the JAINS  ( or all humans living ) to the same understandings of this wonderful

                            JAIN religion is not ever easy

                            e.g.  - there are jains who would do a lot of daily jain routines - pray , be vegetarian

                            to a good extent, go to jain temple/functions....but when asked what does nammo

                            arrihantam mean ..the reply given is it the name of a god...what is siddha ...the reply

                            that is the name of another god

                            these are real life happenins

                            "at any point in time the knowledgeability of a soul is pre-ordained"

                            which also goes with the fact why mahavir attains keval gnyaan in that life & not in a

                            previous life...& also who would be 24 tirthankars in the next cycle of jain eras

                            (chovisi)

                            IS THIS A FACT ? ...are we pre-ordained AS WE GO ALONG LIFE TO LIFE

                            (  knowledgeability is to do with the "karma cloud" which covers the soul )

                            IF the pre-ordained nature of souls is even partly true...in that case what is the best

                            probable plus that a jin shashan follower can attain in this one life& how

                            I welcome discussion .. including from Sri Sreepalan & Sri Vijay Mehta



                                  NILESHKUMAR  KOTHARI

                            jinatma@...



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                          • Vijay Mehta
                            Jai Jinendra, Good statistical figures. Can someone explain me why should we be interested in increase in population of Jains? Vijay Mehta ... From: ymalaiya
                            Message 13 of 17 , Nov 4, 2002
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                              Jai Jinendra,

                              Good statistical figures.

                              Can someone explain me why should we be interested in increase in population of Jains?

                              Vijay Mehta


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: ymalaiya
                              To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:23 AM
                              Subject: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?


                              In terms of fraction of population in India, Jainism is not growing.

                              In 1991 census of India, the Jain population was 3,352,706, which
                              represents 0.40% (i.e. less than half of 1%). The numbers for
                              religions for 2001 census have not been released yet.
                            • sreepal5058
                              Samyak Darshan Dear Shri.Yashwant, Let soul secure samyakthva. Yemon service indeed to have made readily available a vital information to the public at large,
                              Message 14 of 17 , Nov 4, 2002
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                                Samyak Darshan

                                Dear Shri.Yashwant,

                                Let soul secure samyakthva.

                                Yemon service indeed to have made readily available a vital
                                information to the public at large, although generally it is known
                                that JAIN population will be, comparatively, very samll.

                                Interesting it would be that number remaining constant the
                                percentage will vary to one's favour or otherwise with the total
                                population and vice versa and may not depict the correct view of the
                                issue. Therefore to have both and number and percentage will help to
                                get the correct picture.

                                Hope all will agree!

                                For instance take the case of census on percentage basis of JAIN
                                population given as 1941 as 0.37% under British Rule and that of
                                percentage of 1951 as 0.45% after Independence.

                                Nearly 0.08% increse in 10 years.

                                What does it show?

                                Due to the partisan about 10 crores of people opted and left for
                                Pakistan and and later diveded Bangladesh, the population of India
                                has come down and therefore 0.08% increase was seen in JAIN
                                population. Actually there would not have been such an increase,
                                perhaps slight decrease which being the order as seen.

                                Well, any way our scriptures have made it abundantly clear that the
                                decline in number is definite and at the end of the avisarpini - the
                                down ward cycle of time, there will be one Muni, one shravak and one
                                shrvika if I remember correct.

                                And as the utsarpini unfolds again the number will gradually
                                increase and this is the order of the JINA SAASANA.

                                But certainly JINA SAASANA will not extinct.

                                No doubt the anxiety born out of the number is understandable and
                                worldly but one need not get lost on account of this and it would be
                                in the best interest one to be a "gynaatha and dhrishta" of all
                                these developments and move towards our goal - "MOKSHA".

                                Now for the participants...

                                Yours brotherly,
                                sreepalan



                                --- In jainlist@y..., "ymalaiya" <ymalaiya@y...> wrote:
                                > In terms of fraction of population in India, Jainism is not
                                growing.
                                >
                                > In 1991 census of India, the Jain population was 3,352,706, which
                                > represents 0.40% (i.e. less than half of 1%). The numbers for
                                > religions for 2001 census have not been released yet.
                              • sreepal5058
                                Samyak Darshan Dear Shri.Nilesh Kumar Kothari, Let soul secure samyakthva. Ref: Your submission No. 3183 - Sun. Nov 3, 2002 6:57 am 01) Quote: we are all in a
                                Message 15 of 17 , Nov 4, 2002
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                                  Samyak Darshan

                                  Dear Shri.Nilesh Kumar Kothari,

                                  Let soul secure samyakthva.

                                  Ref: Your submission No. 3183 - Sun. Nov 3, 2002 6:57 am
                                  01) Quote:"we are all in a state of 'evolution"
                                  Are you suggesting the theory expounded by Shri.Darwin or gradual
                                  development in the understanding and following of JINA DHARMA?

                                  If former, JINA'S revelation is in disagreement with Shri.Darwin's
                                  theory.

                                  Shri.Darwin's Evolution theory:
                                  If what I have understood is right, it is partially correct /
                                  acceptable. As, if the evolution is from one sensed to two sensed,
                                  two sensed to three senesced, three sensed to four sensed and four
                                  sensed to five sensed, at one point of time, there would not be any
                                  single to four sensed beings in the world.

                                  Is it not?

                                  And is it tenable? Certainly not.
                                  (Please refer to submission No. 3159)

                                  02) "jain oriented beings "
                                  Does this expression mean that you are referring to simply Jain
                                  followers or what?

                                  03) "samay ordained nature of souls."
                                  Does this expression mean that you are referring to "kshanic" -
                                  perishable samsaric jivas - souls.

                                  04) "to try & educate many or all the JAINS ( or all humans living )
                                  to the same understandings of this wonderful JAIN religion is not
                                  ever easy"
                                  Does it mean to you that preaching and bringing all the living
                                  beings, be it Jain or others, is difficult?

                                  Replies to 2,3,and 4 of above:
                                  In essence it is assumed as that whether any one is a Jain or
                                  others, making them to understand our JAIN DHARMA is difficult?

                                  Well, what makes you to arrive to this conclusion?

                                  But what ever be the reason for it, it is certain that either this
                                  discussion board or for that matter even the ultimate sacred "Dhivya
                                  Dhoni" is not capable of making any one to understand JINA DHARMA,
                                  unless one is interested and involves in it.

                                  From "Vyavahaaric" - practical point of view may be said
                                  that "Dhivya Dhoni" or "JINA BAGHAVAAN" or "GURU" is instrumental in
                                  securing "Samayakthva" leading to liberation.

                                  From the "nischaya" - real point of view one only is cause for the
                                  effect of "MOKSHA".

                                  Is it agreed!

                                  "Twenty men can take the horse to the water but not two thousand
                                  make it drink."
                                  Even Christianity proclaims "Knock thou shall be heard" "and ask
                                  thou shall be given"

                                  So the above mentioned only reiterates that only if one is
                                  interested and involved, no one can / need make any one to
                                  understand.

                                  If you wish to gather more on "Dhivya Dhoni" please read submission
                                  Nos.2999 and 3027 - item 6.

                                  05) "at any point in time the knowledgeability of a soul is pre-
                                  ordained".

                                  Are you meaning by this that one's knowing about one's own soul, is
                                  pre-determined?

                                  Well, if that is so, who is that who determines / ordains?
                                  Please enlighten.

                                  Substances - here souls - are independent and question of some one
                                  interfering or directing any one other soul substance, is just
                                  unacceptable as per JINA'S revelation. (nischaya)

                                  On the independence of substances - soul please read submissions
                                  Nos.3027, 3046,and 3103

                                  06)"knowledgeability is to do with the "karma cloud" which covers
                                  the soul "

                                  Well, if one's securing the knowledge of his soul - self - which is
                                  clouded with karmic material, is controlled by 'karma" and, every
                                  one knows, that in the samsaric soul i.e., in all the souls, there
                                  is ceaseless inflow and out flow of karma.

                                  Agreed or not?

                                  If so, when will one get relief from the inflow of karma and
                                  consequent bondage?

                                  He will not for ever, is it not?

                                  So "SIDDHATHVA" is not attainable and unreal.

                                  Are you subscribing to this view?

                                  But "SIDDHATHVA" is a concrete reality.

                                  So, how does "SIDDHATHVA" is attained?

                                  When one's soul endowed with the intrinsic and inseparable quality
                                  of "gynatha"- knowing and "dhrishta"- seeing, immerses itself in
                                  this activity of knowing and seeing of its own self - its own
                                  qualities - for one "samaya", "SAMYAKTHVA" unfolds itself and when
                                  this activity is uninterrupted for less than 48 minutes,"KEVEL
                                  GYNAN" unfolds.

                                  Paryaayas of "Gynan" guna - quality may be any thing and every
                                  thing - good - "subh bhaav", bad - "asubh bhaav" but soul only knows
                                  and sees but never attaches or identifies with any of these. That is
                                  exactly - "SUDHA BHAAV" - what is happening in "KEVELIN". Is HE not
                                  knowing and seeing "Bali bombing" and "9-11 crash" and "SIMANDAR
                                  SWAMY'S SAMOSARAN". Both do not make any vibration in HIM.

                                  Or otherwise when one's soul "gynatha and dhrishta"- knowing and
                                  seeing immerses elsewhere in all the worldly things and other souls,
                                  samasara - the cycle of birth and death is continued and the
                                  liberation is distanced.

                                  On karma theory please read submissions Nos.
                                  3021 - Karma - no karma
                                  3027 - Karma - THRITHANKARA NAMA karma
                                  3001 - Karma - Divisions - mohaniya karama , and
                                  3158 - Karma - dhravya karma.

                                  07)"best probable plus that a jin shashan follower can attain in
                                  this one life& how"

                                  "SAMAYAK DARSANA GYNANA CHARITRANI MOKSHA MARGAHA"
                                  - Shri."THATHGVAARTH SUTRA" / "MOKSHA SASTRA"- Acharya Shri
                                  UMASWAMY

                                  Securing "Samyakthva" i.e., Samyak darshan - right faith, samyak
                                  gynan - right knowledge, and samyak charitra - right condut is the
                                  first step towards the path of goal of Moksha (vyavahaar).

                                  The path of "Moksha" is explained in two ways and the path is not
                                  two but path of "Moksha" is one and only one.

                                  DEV- true GOD, SASTRA - true scriptures, and GURU - true teacher /
                                  preceptor, knowledge, belief in them and conducting oneself the way
                                  shown therein is the "vyavahaar"- practical explanation and knowing,
                                  believing and remaining in one's soul is "nischaya" - real path.

                                  In short one's soul itself is "samyak darshan", "samyak gynan"
                                  and "samyak charitra"

                                  "KNOW THY SELF AND BE THY SELF"

                                  Be 100 % selfish in the true and real sense of the word.

                                  In the universe the one and only person who is really selfish in the
                                  truest sense of the word, is GOD - "THIRTHANKAR" as, HE is the only
                                  one who is knowing HIMSELF, believing HIMSELF, and remaining in
                                  HEMSELF and so HE is GOD and worshipped by us.

                                  Any truth it is KEVELIN'S and otherwise it is mine.

                                  Now for the participants.

                                  Yours brotherly,
                                  sreepalan



                                  --- In jainlist@y..., nileshkumar kothari <jinatma@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > nammo to jin shashan,
                                  >
                                  > we are all in a state of 'evolution' .... THIS one life is only
                                  one stretch
                                  >
                                  > there are jain oriented beings at diffferent levels of acceptance
                                  & understanding
                                  >
                                  > simply put this is to do with karma that one has attained & samay
                                  ordained nature
                                  >
                                  > of souls......virtually most analysis & discussions can carry on
                                  to be very complex
                                  >
                                  > but to simplify WHY there are xyz number of JAINS or WHAT & WHY
                                  they follow
                                  >
                                  > certain tenets usually would be long discussion.....obviously, to
                                  try & educate many
                                  >
                                  > or all the JAINS ( or all humans living ) to the same
                                  understandings of this wonderful
                                  >
                                  > JAIN religion is not ever easy
                                  >
                                  > e.g. - there are jains who would do a lot of daily jain routines -
                                  pray , be vegetarian
                                  >
                                  > to a good extent, go to jain temple/functions....but when asked
                                  what does nammo
                                  >
                                  > arrihantam mean ..the reply given is it the name of a god...what
                                  is siddha ...the reply
                                  >
                                  > that is the name of another god
                                  >
                                  > these are real life happenins
                                  >
                                  > "at any point in time the knowledgeability of a soul is pre-
                                  ordained"
                                  >
                                  > which also goes with the fact why mahavir attains keval gnyaan in
                                  that life & not in a
                                  >
                                  > previous life...& also who would be 24 tirthankars in the next
                                  cycle of jain eras
                                  >
                                  > (chovisi)
                                  >
                                  > IS THIS A FACT ? ...are we pre-ordained AS WE GO ALONG LIFE TO LIFE
                                  >
                                  > ( knowledgeability is to do with the "karma cloud" which covers
                                  the soul )
                                  >
                                  > IF the pre-ordained nature of souls is even partly true...in that
                                  case what is the best
                                  >
                                  > probable plus that a jin shashan follower can attain in this one
                                  life& how
                                  >
                                  > I welcome discussion .. including from Sri Sreepalan & Sri Vijay
                                  Mehta
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > NILESHKUMAR KOTHARI
                                  >
                                  > jinatma@y...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ---------------------------------
                                  > Do you Yahoo!?
                                  > HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
                                • sreepal5058
                                  Samyak Darshan Dear brother, Let soul secure samyakthva. Those who wish to live in this mundane world and enjoy the material things, may be interested in the
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Nov 8, 2002
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Samyak Darshan

                                    Dear brother,

                                    Let soul secure samyakthva.

                                    Those who wish to live in this mundane world and enjoy the material
                                    things, may be interested in the increase perhaps for more support
                                    and those who are not, as they knew that this world is of no use to
                                    them, may not be interested in it, could possibly be one of the
                                    reasons.

                                    For the participants,

                                    Yours brotherly,
                                    sreepalan

                                    --- In jainlist@y..., "Vijay Mehta" <vmc_vijay@h...> wrote:
                                    > Jai Jinendra,
                                    >
                                    > Good statistical figures.
                                    >
                                    > Can someone explain me why should we be interested in increase in
                                    population of Jains?
                                    >
                                    > Vijay Mehta
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: ymalaiya
                                    > To: jainlist@y...
                                    > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 7:23 AM
                                    > Subject: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In terms of fraction of population in India, Jainism is not
                                    growing.
                                    >
                                    > In 1991 census of India, the Jain population was 3,352,706,
                                    which
                                    > represents 0.40% (i.e. less than half of 1%). The numbers for
                                    > religions for 2001 census have not been released yet.
                                  • nshahmaulik
                                    PRANAM Vijaybhai, You are right we need only Quality not Quantity but when their are so many religions are using Media and make Prachar then what we have to do
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Nov 11, 2002
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      PRANAM

                                      Vijaybhai,

                                      You are right we need only Quality not Quantity but

                                      when their are so many religions are using Media and make Prachar
                                      then what we have to do ????

                                      Also if you may be read Muni Yashovijayji Maharajasaheb's( who is at
                                      Ambawadi Ahmedabad.) book for Prabhu Vir Ni Antim Deshana.
                                      In this book Maharajasaheb wrote their may be so many wrong things
                                      are discussed in Mails & web sites for Jainism.for that I prefer to
                                      make Prachar via this media may be I am wrong ??? but ...

                                      In my Flat so many Jain families are not obey our religion as per
                                      describe:

                                      Than I think what about next generation ?????

                                      we need Prabhav but how ??

                                      sorry for delay reply.

                                      PRANAM
                                      Nishith shah

                                      --- In jainlist@y..., "VIJAY MEHTA" <vmc_vijay@h...> wrote:
                                      > Dear Brothers & Sisters,
                                      >
                                      > Jai Jinendra,
                                      >
                                      > At no place in Jain Shashtra, Jains are required to do anything
                                      which has an
                                      > element of "PRACHAR". It is only "PRABHAVNA" which is to be made of
                                      Jain
                                      > Shashan.
                                      >
                                      > "PRABHAVNA" would mean that one's heart is touched by the Jain
                                      principles
                                      > and starts preaching it's principles, may be slowly. But if
                                      anything that
                                      > has effect of making known to everyone the principles of jainism
                                      and nothing
                                      > beyond that, than at best it can be considered as only "PRACHAR"
                                      and it has
                                      > been given no place in Jain shashan.
                                      >
                                      > To make "PRABHAV" effective, one's charitra has to be at a higher
                                      level.
                                      > Even to take simple example of any procession(Rath yatra) that
                                      takes place,
                                      > it is the element of giving up money/wealth for the reason of Jain
                                      Shashan
                                      > which makes more effect on others.The exhorbitant expenses made to
                                      make the
                                      > procession is only the medium to show the element of Tyag of Jains
                                      for Jain
                                      > Shashan. It makes others think on Jain Shashan and is very much
                                      preliminary.
                                      > Their sad-bhav for Jains becomes cause for their attaining Jain
                                      Dharma in
                                      > future.
                                      >
                                      > When Jain Muni's are present in such procession, Jainter (non-
                                      jains) would
                                      > see Jain Shravak's spending so much money in the procession and at
                                      the same
                                      > time look at tyagi Jain muni's (This way both are tyagi). This will
                                      create
                                      > sad-bhav in their heart. That is one kind of Shashan Prabhavna.
                                      >
                                      > Even when say Jain travels in say train and it's time for the
                                      sunset. He
                                      > starts taking his dinner.(no doubt offers others also). This
                                      creates more
                                      > Shashan Prabhavna because it gives a feeling of sadbhav in the
                                      minds of
                                      > others.
                                      >
                                      > At the same time look at one who says that he is Jain but in
                                      gatherings or
                                      > even in public ( like in train) eats at late night without showing
                                      any kind
                                      > of an apology on his face. Imagine action like this that can have
                                      effect on
                                      > prabhav of Jain Shashan.
                                      >
                                      > Needless to say that our Shashan is still respected for Jain Muni's
                                      and
                                      > handful of good Shravak. Otherwise what is Jain Dharma if it is
                                      only with
                                      > spreading knowledge and nothing beyond that.
                                      >
                                      > I know that I have tried to spell out my thought through web and I
                                      am aware
                                      > that it is not going to give right impact, But I find this as a
                                      medium to
                                      > raise the voice against "PRACHAR" only as I am in favour of
                                      > "PRABHAV".
                                      >
                                      > Now for the participants.
                                      >
                                      > Vijay Mehta
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > >From: nishith shah <nshahmaulik@y...>
                                      > >Reply-To: jainlist@y...
                                      > >To: jainlist@y...
                                      > >Subject: RE: [JainList] Re: Jainism growing?
                                      > >Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 02:08:45 -0800 (PST)
                                      > >
                                      > >PRANAM
                                      > >Vijaybhai
                                      > >At some time we have to do PRACHAR from our best knowledge from
                                      Vyakhayan
                                      > >for JAIN & JAINETER.And then we can make PRABHAV of Jainism thro'
                                      websites
                                      > >or Discussions.
                                      > >After all our aim should be ShshanPrabhavana.
                                      > >PRANAM
                                      > >Nishith shah
                                      > > VIJAY MEHTA <vmc_vijay@h...> wrote:Dear Brothers & Sisters,
                                      > >
                                      > >Jai Jinendra,
                                      > >
                                      > >Do Jains should expect "PRACHAR" - (making known to everyone) of
                                      Jainism or
                                      > >"PRABHAV" - (touching heart of everyone)?
                                      > >
                                      > >Are we doing "PRACHAR" or "PRABHAV" of Jainism through websites?
                                      > >
                                      > >I expect paricipants to deal with this subject in detail as I see
                                      that no
                                      > >distinction is made sometime between the two.
                                      > >
                                      > >Vijay Mehta
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _________________________________________________________________
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