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Re: [JainList] Re: Potato and garlic & soul - more

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  • Manish Modi
    Dharmapremi Vijayji, Jai Jinendra I was intrigued by your assertion that : Consumption of these food articles may not necessarily become casue for PAAP
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 30 12:28 PM
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      Dharmapremi Vijayji,
      Jai Jinendra

      I was intrigued by your assertion that :
      ""Consumption of these food articles" may not necessarily become casue for
      PAAP karma to be attached."

      If the very intent to commit an act can cause inflow of demerits, why not the
      actual act?

      Don't we analyse violent activity in three stages of completion,
      "Samrambh, Samarambh and Aarambh"?

      Each stage of any act invites a certain level of karmic inflow.

      Yours in Ahinsa,

      Manish




      On Monday 30 September 2002 22:11, you wrote:
      > ...
      > It is possible that only "intention to consume these foods" may become
      > cause for Karmic particles to be attached with soul with bad effects (PAAP
      > prakriti) and at the same time " Consumption of these food articles" may
      > not necessarily become casue for PAAP karma to be attached.
      ...
    • Manish Modi
      Dharmapremi Sudhirbhai, Jai Jinendra I have been reading your postings since the past couple of years. I respect your commitment towards Jain pathshalas and
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 30 1:15 PM
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        Dharmapremi Sudhirbhai,
        Jai Jinendra

        I have been reading your postings since the past couple of years. I respect
        your commitment towards Jain pathshalas and your analytical approach to
        studying Jainism.

        I am going to answer your email in brief, but at the outset let me state that
        I eat the underground roots myself, and I do eat after dark as well.

        In the context of eating onions and potatoes etc, when we pull out an onion
        or a potato or radish, we are killing the entire plant. When we pick up a
        vegetable like pumpkin, we are not killing the plant. Co-relate this with the
        famous example of the six Leshyas, where the man who has Krishna Leshya
        destroys the entire tree in order to get at its fruits, while the white
        Leshya guy contents himself with the fruit that has fallen on the ground.
        With due respect, which Leshya do you want to belong to?

        Not eating roots has been clearly outlined in our scriptures. Dr. Gadaji has
        doen a great job pointing out where one should search. Also, please refer to
        the "Ratnakarand Shravakachar"*, Acharya Samantbhadra's masterly
        "Shravakachar". It carries clear injunctions against the eating of
        "Abhakshya" foods, and includes the roots in "Abhakshya". I think all
        Shravakachars have clearly mentioned that "Abhakshya" foods should not be
        eaten.

        Now, let us study organisms from the Gunsthan point of view. If we were to go
        by specious logic that it is better to kill one living being than many,
        (thereby justifying the killing af one elephant over many vegetables) one has
        failed to consider the Gunsthan of the living being in question. Just see how
        many Paap Karmas have been destroyed by that living being to be born as a
        Panchendriya Sangyi (Sangni) living being, all of that goes to waste if we
        kill that living being. Besides a large Panchendriya jiv has countless number
        of small living beings residing in his body. If you destroy that large
        Panchendriya Jiv, all those ekendriyas will also get killed.

        That is why it is advised in our scriptures that we should eat pure vegetarian
        food within the right maryada, and stay away from the 5 udambar fruits and
        roots.

        I am aware that as shravaks, we cannot avoid Hinsa completely, but we can
        minimise it. The more we minimise Hinsa, the better off we are.

        Uttam Kshama

        Manish

        *Written in the 4th century A.D.


        On Tuesday 01 October 2002 07:06, you wrote:
        > Dear Sripalanji
        > You wrote:Therefore, it is advised in our agamas to avoid vegetables
        > or any food that are procured from under the ground.
        >
        > Can you Please let me know where in agams it is advised to avoid root
        > vegetables? Which book, Which 'gatha'? In my extensive research on this
        > topic, I have not come across this. All the Acharyas I have talked to, also
        > confirm my findings. Others who claim what you claim, have not yet given
        > any evidence for that. It is possible that I may have missed it or
        > mis-interpreted. So if you have any evidence, it will help me clearify my
        > own thinking.
        > Awaiting your response.
        > Sudhir M. Shah
      • VIJAY MEHTA
        Dear Kamal, The expalantion for second part is also very simple. What I said that Consumption of these food articles MAY NOT NECESSARILY become cause for PAAP
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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          Dear Kamal,
           
          The expalantion for second part is also very simple. What I said that "Consumption of these food articles MAY NOT NECESSARILY become cause for PAAP karma to be ATTACHED.
           
          What is the reason for ANY karma to be attached?
           
          It is parinam. Recall the sutra "PARINAME BANDH"  Now it is not necessary that when potatoes or garlics are eaten the PARINAM is to eat these foods. Don't use this logic as a scapegoat to eat them.
           
          I will give one example. Say you went to your friend's house for lunch. He offerred you Potato Wada but lied to you and stated that it is made of Banana.  You have good reason to rely on your friend and consumed those Potato Vada. While consuming them you have no reason to believe at all that they are made of Potato. You tested those Vada but as soon as you consumed a part of it you realized that they are made of Potato and you spilled them out from your mouth but still some part you could not bring out as it already reached your stomach. Now tell me what about the Karma to be attached?.
           
          You have no PARINAM to eat them which is again established by your own act.
           
          Need more to explain?
           
          With regards,
           
          Vijay Mehta
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: 01 October, 2002 9:54 AM
          Subject: Re: [JainList] Re: Potato and garlic & soul - more

          >It is possible that only "intention to consume these foods" may become cause for Karmic particles to be attached with soul with bad effects >(PAAP prakriti) and at the same time " Consumption of these food articles" may not necessarily become casue for PAAP karma to be >attached. 
           
          I didn't understand the second part !!!
           
          Kamal
           
           
           
          The KARMA VAAD is such a deep subject that it requires comprehensive knowledge on the subject with due guidance from GURU.
           
          Now for the participants to offer their views.
           
          With regards,
           
          Vijay Mehta
           
           


           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: 30 September, 2002 4:26 AM
          Subject: [JainList] Re: Potato and garlic & soul - more


          Samyak Darshan

          Dear Sister Preeti Sanghvi,

          Let soul secure samyakthva.

          Onion, garlic, potatoes:
          These are vegetables procured from under the ground / earth and the
          rays of sun do not penetrate into the ground and therefore, the
          germination is more than that are procured from over the ground. By
          consuming them killing of infinite germs / jivas is caused when
          compared to the consumption of vegetables procured from over the
          ground. Therefore, it is advised in our agamas to avoid vegetables
          or any food that are procured from under the ground.

          Reason:
          The intention to consume and actual consumption of these food
          articles causes inflow of karmic particles into one's soul and
          distances one securing eternal bliss.

          Now it is for the participants…

          Yours brotherly,
          sreepalan





          --- In jainlist@y..., "preeti sanghvi" <pjsanghvi@m...> wrote:
          > hi,
          >
          > Jai jenendra
          >
          > The soul has dosent have any negative quality but it is already
          pure it due to
          > jivatma and karams we make puts a curtain over our soul.
          >
          > As far as eating underground stuff it is said that the food with
          positive energy
          > should be taken for yor ATAM UNATI, The negative energy food make
          your
          > viberations and actions negative and the progress towards the
          golihood lessens
          > your vichar is so your ahar.
          >
          > Michamidukdam if im wrong anywhere all this is as per my
          knowledge.,
          >
          > Piya Sanghvi



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          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
        • VIJAY MEHTA
          Dear Manishbhai, Jai Jinendra, Don t forget that attachment(BANDH) is dependent of PRINAM. If you know the Vanditu Sutra where it is said that: SAMADITTHI
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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            Dear Manishbhai,
             
            Jai Jinendra,
             
            Don't forget that attachment(BANDH) is dependent of PRINAM.
             
            If you know the Vanditu Sutra where it is said that: "SAMADITTHI JIVO JAIVI HU PAVAM SAMYARE KINCH, APPO SI HOI BANDHO, JEN N NIRDHWANSA KENAI". Meaning that SAMYAK DARSHANI  soul do engage in paap kriyas sometimes but that kriyas attaches few (appo) karma to be attached(Bandho) because his parinam is not to kill (NIRDHWANSA).
             
            You may also refer to example I have given to Kamalbhai.
             
            Regards,
             
            Vijay Mehta
             
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: 01 October, 2002 12:58 AM
            Subject: Re: [JainList] Re: Potato and garlic & soul - more

            Dharmapremi Vijayji,
            Jai Jinendra

            I was intrigued by your assertion that :
            ""Consumption of these food articles" may not necessarily become casue for
            PAAP karma to be attached."

            If the very intent to commit an act can cause inflow of demerits, why not the
            actual act?

            Don't we analyse violent activity in three stages of completion,
            "Samrambh, Samarambh and Aarambh"?

            Each stage of any act invites a certain level of karmic inflow.

            Yours in Ahinsa,

            Manish




            On Monday 30 September 2002 22:11, you wrote:
            > ...
            > It is possible that only "intention to consume these foods" may become
            > cause for Karmic particles to be attached with soul with bad effects (PAAP
            > prakriti) and at the same time " Consumption of these food articles" may
            > not necessarily become casue for PAAP karma to be attached.
              ...



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            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • sreepal5058
            Samyak Darshan Dear Shri.Sudhir M.Shah, Let soul secure samyakthva. Reference requested: All the Shravakachars viz., Rathna Karanda Shravakachar by venerable
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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              Samyak Darshan

              Dear Shri.Sudhir M.Shah,

              Let soul secure samyakthva.

              Reference requested:
              All the Shravakachars viz.,"Rathna Karanda Shravakachar" by
              venerable Acharya Shri. Samanthabdra, "Purushartha Sidhupaaya" by
              Acharya Shri Amirtha chandra, "Dhravya Sangrah" by Shri.Nemichandra
              Siddhantha Chakrvathi could give the details you are seeking.

              Well, I am now placed in a far of country from India and to
              immediately refer and provide you exact details to suit your
              requirements may be difficult for the moment. sorry for the
              disappointment.

              However, it would not be out of context, I think, to please take up
              with Shri.Manish modi, who is also a moderator of this discussion
              board and a renowned bookseller, and who can furnish the information
              with out loss of time.

              Wishing you all the best in your research efforts.

              Yours brotherly,
              sreepalan




              --- In jainlist@y..., "Sudhir M. Shah" <sudhir@o...> wrote:
              > Dear Sripalanji
              > You wrote:Therefore, it is advised in our agamas to avoid
              vegetables
              > or any food that are procured from under the ground.
              >
              > Can you Please let me know where in agams it is advised to avoid
              root
              > vegetables? Which book, Which 'gatha'? In my extensive research on
              this
              > topic, I have not come across this. All the Acharyas I have talked
              to, also
              > confirm my findings. Others who claim what you claim, have not yet
              given any
              > evidence for that. It is possible that I may have missed it or
              > mis-interpreted. So if you have any evidence, it will help me
              clearify my own
              > thinking.
              > Awaiting your response.
              > Sudhir M. Shah
              >
              >
            • sreepal5058
              Samyak Darshan Dear Shri.Vijay Mehta and others, Let soul secure samyakthav. Please go thro submission No.3050 on the phenomenon of Intention and if you
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 1, 2002
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                Samyak Darshan

                Dear Shri.Vijay Mehta and others,

                Let soul secure samyakthav.

                Please go thro' submission No.3050 on the phenomenon of "Intention"
                and if you find that it is still falling short of something, do not
                hesitate to raise your doubts.

                Sorry for the short cut.

                Yours brotherly,
                sreepalan


                --- In jainlist@y..., "VIJAY MEHTA" <vmc_vijay@h...> wrote:
                > Dear Sreepalnji,
                >
                > Jai Jinendra,
                >
                > By now we have come closure when we have exchanged so many ideas
                so far.
                >
                > By eating potatotes and garlic etc. you said it cause inflow of
                Karma particles when you said as under:
                >
                > "Reason:
                > The intention to consume and actual consumption of these food
                > articles causes inflow of karmic particles into one's soul and
                > distances one securing eternal bliss."
                >
                > For any Karma to get attached with soul (known as Bandh) there are
                4 different types of Bandha described.
                > 1) Pradesh bandh, 2) Prakriti Bandh, 3) Stithi Bandh and 4) Ras
                Bandh. The four qualities/description of Bandh are stated in the
                ascending order of their importance for the soul.
                >
                > It is possible that only "intention to consume these foods" may
                become cause for Karmic particles to be attached with soul with bad
                effects (PAAP prakriti) and at the same time " Consumption of these
                food articles" may not necessarily become casue for PAAP karma to be
                attached.
                >
                > The KARMA VAAD is such a deep subject that it requires
                comprehensive knowledge on the subject with due guidance from GURU.
                >
                > Now for the participants to offer their views.
                >
                > With regards,
                >
                > Vijay Mehta
                >
                >
                >
                >
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