Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

A question regarding the truth perceived by Jinendra Dev

Expand Messages
  • Vikas Sharma
    Sadar Jai Jinendra, I am not able to understand the fundamental teaching of Shri Jinendra Deva, which is as follows: Lord Tirthankars say that this is earth
    Message 1 of 6 , Mar 1, 2013
      Sadar Jai Jinendra,

      I am not able to understand the fundamental teaching of Shri Jinendra Deva, which is as follows:

      Lord Tirthankars say that this is earth beginning-less, means to say is that without an starting and since then souls are getting liberated, but still the earth is fully occupied? What I want to know is that if infinite souls are getting liberation, then this earth would get emptied one day in the future definitely? Isn't it so?...? And also this earth and entire universe is some specific Yogans in area which has creatures and since a limited area is there in which this Jiva lives, definitely it could/should be emptied one day......?

      Please elucidate this thing...!

      Thanks and Regards,
      Vikas
    • Bhavik Shah
      Dear Vikasji, Jai Jinendra There are Infinite living beings in this universe. And Infinite souls have fought for and gained liberation. But there is vast
      Message 2 of 6 , Mar 5, 2013
        Dear Vikasji,

        Jai Jinendra

        There are 'Infinite' living beings in this universe. And 'Infinite' souls
        have fought for and gained liberation. But there is vast gap between the
        two quantities. The total number of those who have gained liberation is not
        even a fraction of total number of souls that exist in the universe. In
        fact, the total number of souls that have gained liberation is not even a
        fraction of total number of souls in a single body of *Nigoda. *And there
        are innumerable such *Nigoda-*bodies that exist across the universe at any
        given time.

        Let me elucidate further. There are 9 types of 'Infinite' that are spoken
        of, in Jainism, as such kind of classification is required to group similar
        entities of the universe together. Let us call these, as Infinite-1,
        Infinite-2 and so on. Now, each of these infinite is infinitely greater
        than previous one. Infinite - 9 >>> Infinite - 8 >>> Infinite -7 and so on.
        The gap between previous and later infinite is such that even after
        squaring or raising the previous infinite to its own power would lead to a
        quantity which is still a fraction of the subsequent infinite.

        Coming back to your question, that would not the universe be emptied (of
        worldly souls)?
        It is said that time consists of 'samayas', which is the smallest possible
        division of time. Acc. to jainism, time is infinite, it is without
        beginning or end. Time consists of 'Infinite samayas'. However, the
        'Infinite' which is referred over here is of the 4th kind. But the total
        number of souls in this universe are of 8th kind. At any given moment
        (samaya), the highest number of souls which can achieve simultaneous
        liberation is 108. 108 x Infinite- 4 ~ Infinite- 4, which is still a small
        fraction of the total number of worldly souls the universe carries. This
        must answer your query.

        A person is bound to doubt over here, whether different kinds of Infinites
        are possible or not? If yes, how can we say smaller infinite to be
        'Infinite' in strict sense of the word, as it is only a fraction as
        compared to larger Infinites, and in the sense that it getting an
        upper-limit, when we say that there is a quantity that is greater than it.

        But this can proven by logic.

        Imagine a single line, extending in both directions. Let number of points
        that exist on this line be N-1. N-1, as anyone having basic knowledge on
        mathematics, shall understand is Infinite, as line consist of Infinite
        points. Second example is that of Plane, which extends in all directions.
        Let number of points that exist on the plane be N-2. N-2 is also infinite,
        as a plane consists of Infinite points. But when we compare N-1 and N-2,
        N-1 is only fraction of N-2. However, both are 'infinite' in their own
        respect, which no one can deny, however one is also justified to say that
        N-1 is only fraction of N-2. Infinity-ness of both are not affected by this
        fact. Similarly, various kinds of infinities also exist when the certain
        entities of universe are grouped together, and which, if one may be allowed
        to relate to the analogy described, are representative of different domains
        and dimensions.

        If anything against Jina-aagnya has been mentioned, I ask for Michchami
        Dukkadam.

        Regards
        Bhavik
      • Jakhelia & Associates
        Dear Bhavik that was excel ant & beautifully presented in simple language.
        Message 3 of 6 , Mar 5, 2013
          Dear Bhavik that was excel ant & beautifully presented in simple language.
        • Vikas Sharma
          Dear Bhavik Ji, Sadar Jai Jinendra and Pranam. I am highly thankful to you for this information, upon which I am still pondering and find it super logical.
          Message 4 of 6 , Mar 7, 2013
            Dear Bhavik Ji,

            Sadar Jai Jinendra and Pranam. I am highly thankful to you for this information, upon which I am still pondering and find it super logical.

            Please do correct me if I am wrong when I conclude that 'soul' in fact should not (or must not...?) occupy any space then..! Since if it were occupying the same, the space would have ceased in due course of time....Like you elucidated that those souls are innumerable, means even a single point space can have infinite souls and even the number of souls possibly contained in that small space would even not get emptied (when those are liberated) in the infinite time to come and also the soul is not occupying any space...(I believe...)

            The truth really is incredible...!

            I salute to infinite Jinedra Devs who have already liberated and those who would....! I bow my head in their legs. I wonder that so many humans have taken birth on this earth...but rare are those who follow Jainism.....cannot be thanked in words..., a reason for liberation, happiness, and everything.....!

            Thanks a lot and Regards,
            Vikas
          • Bhavik Shah
            Dear Vikasji. Jai Jinendra Soul does occupy space. In fact, each soul occupies innumerable (asankhya) pra-desh (points) of space, and this is fixed, whether
            Message 5 of 6 , Mar 7, 2013
              Dear Vikasji.

              Jai Jinendra

              Soul does occupy space. In fact, each soul occupies innumerable (asankhya)
              pra-desh (points) of space, and this is fixed, whether the soul referred to
              is that of an elephant, or an ant, or of that consisting in a *nigod*-body
              or that of liberated souls for that matter.

              This is given in the Tattvartha sutra as below:
              *Ashamkhyeyah pradeshah dharma-adharma-eka-jivanam ||5-8||*
              *
              *
              Infinite souls share (or can share) the same space points, because unlike
              matter they do not impede existence of other souls at that point.
              Therefore, there is no need to think that (because space is limited and
              souls are infinite) soul must occupy no space. They will occupy space.

              This is endorsed by another sutra from the Tattvartha,
              *
              *
              *Akasasyavagahah ||5-18||*
              *
              *
              It is the function of 'space' to provide space to all substances.If soul
              does not occupy space, then what would be function of 'space' in relation
              to soul?
              This means 'soul' does occupy space.

              I hope I have answered to your query.

              If anything against Jina-aagnya I have mentioned, I ask for Micchami
              Dukkadam.

              Regards
              Bhavik
            • Vikas Sharma
              Sadar Jai Jinendra. When you say that Infinite souls share (or can share) the same space points, because unlike matter they do not impede existence of other
              Message 6 of 6 , Mar 9, 2013
                Sadar Jai Jinendra.

                When you say that "Infinite souls share (or can share) the same space points, because unlike matter they do not impede existence of other souls at that point.", it then means souls can be infinite (must be I meant), since from a single side view it occupies the space since it is its 'Pradesh' but from another side it is not occupying the space PHYSICALLY. It means that (if I am not wrong) that each Yug/Kaal is the middle one of the infinite time since already infinite Yugs have elapsed before it and also infinite Yugs would follow it!! So each time the souls remain infinite, even, when it is known that infinite have already liberated...! Even after infinite time, when I see the earth and look at it, I find it fully occupied with all creatures...yes the souls are infinite....! I have imagined it to an analogy of Mathematics, viz., infinite numbers exist! When you want to have a very very big number, there is always existence of +1 to the chosen number, so
                numbers remain infinite in number, whatever we choose....!

                Great.

                Thanks and Regards,
                Vikas
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.