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Re: [jacksongenealogy] Looking for Indian Ancestry

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  • RKi4222422@aol.com
    I have information you may find of interest. My mother s sister, my aunt, married JR (John Richard) Ivey b. 1914 d. 1984. His father is Nimrod Ivey b. 1878 AL
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 9, 2006
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      I have information you may find of interest. My mother's sister, my aunt,
      married JR (John Richard) Ivey b. 1914 d. 1984. His father is Nimrod Ivey b.
      1878 AL d. 1962. His father is John Barna Ivey b. 1842 AL. Any relation?
      Robert Kimble
      _RKi4222422@..._ (mailto:RKi4222422@...)



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ray Beam
      Bob Go to Rootsweb.com s site and you will find information on John W. Talley and his ancestors. There are 3 listings. This site is free and easy to use.
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 9, 2006
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        Bob
        Go to Rootsweb.com's site and you will find information on John W. Talley
        and his ancestors. There are 3 listings. This site is free and easy to use.
        http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi

        Ray Beam
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...>
        To: <jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:22 AM
        Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Looking for Indian Ancestry


        Hello!
        I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and have just
        discovered and joined this group. I am doing genealogical research,
        especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee, Creek, etc.)
        heritage that I may have. I have been able to trace some of my
        ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa 1800.

        My maternal grandparents were:

        Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow Mountain.
        Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary ??_______ (maiden
        name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
        Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey, buried at the
        Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.

        Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett & Luvenia
        Matthews.
        Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James Evett and Susan
        Ann Grider.
        Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or "Mathews"
        or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.

        My paternal grandparents were:

        Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam, who after being
        widowed, married Jack Phillips.
        Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or JJ) Gilliam & Mary
        J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin Co., TN.
        Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and Elizabeth Sarah
        Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
        Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.

        Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW) Talley and Ollie Mae
        Holt.
        Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
        Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in an unmarked grave
        at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her mother is unknown.

        I would greatly appreciate any information that anyone could give me.

        Many thanks,
        Bob J. Gilliam










        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Sam McDowell
        Hi Bob, John William Talley s parents are William Buckner Talley and Sina Crumley. Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather James Madison (Jim
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 10, 2006
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          Hi Bob,
          John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
          Talley and Sina Crumley.
          Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
          James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
          exchange information with you.
          William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
          Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were Jesse
          Crumley and Emily Loftless.
          Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
          of Tood Phillips as we called him?
          Sam

          --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:

          > Hello!
          > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
          > have just
          > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
          > genealogical research,
          > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
          > Creek, etc.)
          > heritage that I may have. I have been able to trace
          > some of my
          > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa 1800.
          >
          > My maternal grandparents were:
          >
          > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
          > Mountain.
          > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
          > ??_______ (maiden
          > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
          > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
          > buried at the
          > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
          >
          > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett &
          > Luvenia
          > Matthews.
          > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
          > Evett and Susan
          > Ann Grider.
          > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
          > "Mathews"
          > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
          >
          > My paternal grandparents were:
          >
          > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam, who
          > after being
          > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
          > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or JJ)
          > Gilliam & Mary
          > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
          > Co., TN.
          > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
          > Elizabeth Sarah
          > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
          > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
          >
          > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
          > Talley and Ollie Mae
          > Holt.
          > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
          > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in an
          > unmarked grave
          > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
          > mother is unknown.
          >
          > I would greatly appreciate any information that
          > anyone could give me.
          >
          > Many thanks,
          > Bob J. Gilliam
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          __________________________________________________
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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • Bob Gilliam
          Yes, Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960 until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 13, 2006
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            Yes,

            Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960 until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter, Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children. Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips) lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral home and could be reached there.

            Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far, so I need information about her.
            My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian. He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the graves soon.

            Bob Gilliam

            Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
            Hi Bob,
            John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
            Talley and Sina Crumley.
            Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
            James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
            exchange information with you.
            William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
            Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were Jesse
            Crumley and Emily Loftless.
            Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
            of Tood Phillips as we called him?
            Sam

            --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:

            > Hello!
            > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
            > have just
            > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
            > genealogical research,
            > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
            > Creek, etc.)
            > heritage that I may have. I have been able to trace
            > some of my
            > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa 1800.
            >
            > My maternal grandparents were:
            >
            > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
            > Mountain.
            > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
            > ??_______ (maiden
            > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
            > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
            > buried at the
            > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
            >
            > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett &
            > Luvenia
            > Matthews.
            > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
            > Evett and Susan
            > Ann Grider.
            > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
            > "Mathews"
            > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
            >
            > My paternal grandparents were:
            >
            > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam, who
            > after being
            > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
            > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or JJ)
            > Gilliam & Mary
            > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
            > Co., TN.
            > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
            > Elizabeth Sarah
            > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
            > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
            >
            > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
            > Talley and Ollie Mae
            > Holt.
            > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
            > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in an
            > unmarked grave
            > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
            > mother is unknown.
            >
            > I would greatly appreciate any information that
            > anyone could give me.
            >
            > Many thanks,
            > Bob J. Gilliam
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            __________________________________________________
            Do You Yahoo!?
            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            http://mail.yahoo.com





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sam McDowell
            Bob, Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B, everyone called him rooster , married to Helen Jean Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 13, 2006
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              Bob,
              Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
              everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
              Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
              from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
              My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
              Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
              Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
              between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
              grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
              is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
              He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
              Arkansas your Holts lived?



              Yes,

              >
              > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
              > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
              > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
              > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
              > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
              > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
              > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
              > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
              > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
              > home and could be reached there.
              >
              > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
              > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
              > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
              > so I need information about her.
              > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
              > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
              > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
              > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
              > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
              > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
              > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
              > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
              > graves soon.
              >
              > Bob Gilliam
              >
              > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
              > Hi Bob,
              > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
              > Talley and Sina Crumley.
              > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
              > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
              > exchange information with you.
              > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
              > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
              > Jesse
              > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
              > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
              > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
              > Sam
              >
              > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hello!
              > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
              > > have just
              > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
              > > genealogical research,
              > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
              > > Creek, etc.)
              > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
              > trace
              > > some of my
              > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
              > 1800.
              > >
              > > My maternal grandparents were:
              > >
              > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
              > > Mountain.
              > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
              > > ??_______ (maiden
              > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
              > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
              > > buried at the
              > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
              > >
              > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
              > &
              > > Luvenia
              > > Matthews.
              > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
              > > Evett and Susan
              > > Ann Grider.
              > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
              > > "Mathews"
              > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
              > >
              > > My paternal grandparents were:
              > >
              > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
              > who
              > > after being
              > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
              > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
              > JJ)
              > > Gilliam & Mary
              > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
              > > Co., TN.
              > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
              > > Elizabeth Sarah
              > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
              > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
              > >
              > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
              > > Talley and Ollie Mae
              > > Holt.
              > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
              > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
              > an
              > > unmarked grave
              > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
              > > mother is unknown.
              > >
              > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
              > > anyone could give me.
              > >
              > > Many thanks,
              > > Bob J. Gilliam
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > __________________________________________________
              > Do You Yahoo!?
              > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
              > protection around
              > http://mail.yahoo.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
              > removed]
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              http://mail.yahoo.com
            • Sam McDowell
              Bob, Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B, everyone called him rooster , married to Helen Jean Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 13, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Bob,
                Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
                everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
                Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
                from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
                My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
                Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
                Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
                between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
                grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
                is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
                He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
                Arkansas your Holts lived?



                Yes,

                >
                > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
                > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
                > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
                > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
                > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
                > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
                > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
                > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
                > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
                > home and could be reached there.
                >
                > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
                > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
                > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
                > so I need information about her.
                > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
                > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
                > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
                > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
                > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
                > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
                > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
                > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
                > graves soon.
                >
                > Bob Gilliam
                >
                > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                > Hi Bob,
                > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
                > Talley and Sina Crumley.
                > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
                > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
                > exchange information with you.
                > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
                > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
                > Jesse
                > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
                > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
                > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
                > Sam
                >
                > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hello!
                > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
                > > have just
                > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
                > > genealogical research,
                > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
                > > Creek, etc.)
                > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
                > trace
                > > some of my
                > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
                > 1800.
                > >
                > > My maternal grandparents were:
                > >
                > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
                > > Mountain.
                > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
                > > ??_______ (maiden
                > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
                > > buried at the
                > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
                > >
                > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
                > &
                > > Luvenia
                > > Matthews.
                > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
                > > Evett and Susan
                > > Ann Grider.
                > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
                > > "Mathews"
                > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
                > >
                > > My paternal grandparents were:
                > >
                > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
                > who
                > > after being
                > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
                > JJ)
                > > Gilliam & Mary
                > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
                > > Co., TN.
                > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
                > > Elizabeth Sarah
                > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
                > >
                > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
                > > Talley and Ollie Mae
                > > Holt.
                > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
                > an
                > > unmarked grave
                > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
                > > mother is unknown.
                > >
                > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
                > > anyone could give me.
                > >
                > > Many thanks,
                > > Bob J. Gilliam
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                > __________________________________________________
                > Do You Yahoo!?
                > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                > protection around
                > http://mail.yahoo.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                >
                >


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Sam McDowell
                Bob, Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B, everyone called him rooster , married to Helen Jean Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 13, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Bob,
                  Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
                  everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
                  Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
                  from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
                  My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
                  Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
                  Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
                  between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
                  grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
                  is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
                  He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
                  Arkansas your Holts lived?



                  Yes,

                  >
                  > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
                  > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
                  > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
                  > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
                  > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
                  > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
                  > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
                  > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
                  > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
                  > home and could be reached there.
                  >
                  > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
                  > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
                  > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
                  > so I need information about her.
                  > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
                  > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
                  > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
                  > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
                  > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
                  > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
                  > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
                  > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
                  > graves soon.
                  >
                  > Bob Gilliam
                  >
                  > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                  > Hi Bob,
                  > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
                  > Talley and Sina Crumley.
                  > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
                  > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
                  > exchange information with you.
                  > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
                  > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
                  > Jesse
                  > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
                  > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
                  > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
                  > Sam
                  >
                  > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hello!
                  > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
                  > > have just
                  > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
                  > > genealogical research,
                  > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
                  > > Creek, etc.)
                  > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
                  > trace
                  > > some of my
                  > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
                  > 1800.
                  > >
                  > > My maternal grandparents were:
                  > >
                  > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
                  > > Mountain.
                  > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
                  > > ??_______ (maiden
                  > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                  > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
                  > > buried at the
                  > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
                  > >
                  > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
                  > &
                  > > Luvenia
                  > > Matthews.
                  > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
                  > > Evett and Susan
                  > > Ann Grider.
                  > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
                  > > "Mathews"
                  > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
                  > >
                  > > My paternal grandparents were:
                  > >
                  > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
                  > who
                  > > after being
                  > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                  > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
                  > JJ)
                  > > Gilliam & Mary
                  > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
                  > > Co., TN.
                  > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
                  > > Elizabeth Sarah
                  > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                  > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
                  > >
                  > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
                  > > Talley and Ollie Mae
                  > > Holt.
                  > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                  > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
                  > an
                  > > unmarked grave
                  > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
                  > > mother is unknown.
                  > >
                  > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
                  > > anyone could give me.
                  > >
                  > > Many thanks,
                  > > Bob J. Gilliam
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
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                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                  > protection around
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                  >
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                  >
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                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >


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                • lydia flack
                  my great grandfather is dock Holt he was born in cocke county Tennessee. My grand fathers family James s Holt married to mahala holloway my grandmother
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 13, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    my great grandfather is dock Holt he was born in cocke county Tennessee.
                    My grand fathers family James s Holt married to mahala holloway
                    my grandmother Rutha Holt also from cocke Tenn., living in Jackson county
                    from about 1880 -1930 living around fackler and holly wood .We do
                    have some talley kin also
                    can e-mail me for more info. llflack@...

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bob Gilliam
                    Oh yes, forgot Rooster. Don t know about Thomas Jefferson Holt yet but they were probably closely related. Don t know where Luther Holt lived in Arkansas
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 14, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Oh yes, forgot Rooster. Don't know about Thomas Jefferson Holt yet but they were probably closely related. Don't know where Luther Holt lived in Arkansas yet. We live in Knox County, TN and may find more info locally and will let you know.

                      We found a Rutha A Smith who was probably wife to Isaac Dock Holt. She was born in Cocke Co. TN, 1857 and was listed as "deaf". The family had no father at home in 1870 and she was attending school with Nancy Smith as head of house.
                      How do you find out if they are all or part Indian? My great grandparents (Andrew Jackson and Luvinia Mathews Evett) told me they were part "Black Dutch" and now the Indians say that was a standard "Cover".

                      Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                      Bob,
                      Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
                      everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
                      Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
                      from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
                      My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
                      Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
                      Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
                      between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
                      grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
                      is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
                      He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
                      Arkansas your Holts lived?

                      Yes,

                      >
                      > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
                      > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
                      > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
                      > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
                      > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
                      > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
                      > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
                      > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
                      > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
                      > home and could be reached there.
                      >
                      > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
                      > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
                      > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
                      > so I need information about her.
                      > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
                      > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
                      > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
                      > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
                      > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
                      > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
                      > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
                      > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
                      > graves soon.
                      >
                      > Bob Gilliam
                      >
                      > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                      > Hi Bob,
                      > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
                      > Talley and Sina Crumley.
                      > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
                      > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
                      > exchange information with you.
                      > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
                      > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
                      > Jesse
                      > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
                      > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
                      > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
                      > Sam
                      >
                      > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hello!
                      > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
                      > > have just
                      > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
                      > > genealogical research,
                      > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
                      > > Creek, etc.)
                      > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
                      > trace
                      > > some of my
                      > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
                      > 1800.
                      > >
                      > > My maternal grandparents were:
                      > >
                      > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
                      > > Mountain.
                      > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
                      > > ??_______ (maiden
                      > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                      > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
                      > > buried at the
                      > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
                      > >
                      > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
                      > &
                      > > Luvenia
                      > > Matthews.
                      > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
                      > > Evett and Susan
                      > > Ann Grider.
                      > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
                      > > "Mathews"
                      > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
                      > >
                      > > My paternal grandparents were:
                      > >
                      > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
                      > who
                      > > after being
                      > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                      > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
                      > JJ)
                      > > Gilliam & Mary
                      > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
                      > > Co., TN.
                      > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
                      > > Elizabeth Sarah
                      > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                      > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
                      > >
                      > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
                      > > Talley and Ollie Mae
                      > > Holt.
                      > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                      > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
                      > an
                      > > unmarked grave
                      > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
                      > > mother is unknown.
                      > >
                      > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
                      > > anyone could give me.
                      > >
                      > > Many thanks,
                      > > Bob J. Gilliam
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                      > protection around
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >

                      __________________________________________________
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                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bob Gilliam
                      Thanks, I don t know yet but this is helpful and I will check it out. RKi4222422@aol.com wrote: I have information you may find of interest. My
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 14, 2006
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                        Thanks, I don't know yet but this is helpful and I will check it out.

                        RKi4222422@... wrote: I have information you may find of interest. My mother's sister, my aunt,
                        married JR (John Richard) Ivey b. 1914 d. 1984. His father is Nimrod Ivey b.
                        1878 AL d. 1962. His father is John Barna Ivey b. 1842 AL. Any relation?
                        Robert Kimble
                        _RKi4222422@..._ (mailto:RKi4222422@...)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bob Gilliam
                        Thanks, that was very helpful. Ray Beam wrote: Bob Go to Rootsweb.com s site and you will find information on John W. Talley and
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 14, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Thanks, that was very helpful.

                          Ray Beam <beamr@...> wrote: Bob
                          Go to Rootsweb.com's site and you will find information on John W. Talley
                          and his ancestors. There are 3 listings. This site is free and easy to use.
                          http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi

                          Ray Beam
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...>
                          To: <jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 8:22 AM
                          Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Looking for Indian Ancestry

                          Hello!
                          I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and have just
                          discovered and joined this group. I am doing genealogical research,
                          especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee, Creek, etc.)
                          heritage that I may have. I have been able to trace some of my
                          ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa 1800.

                          My maternal grandparents were:

                          Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow Mountain.
                          Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary ??_______ (maiden
                          name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                          Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey, buried at the
                          Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.

                          Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett & Luvenia
                          Matthews.
                          Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James Evett and Susan
                          Ann Grider.
                          Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or "Mathews"
                          or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.

                          My paternal grandparents were:

                          Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam, who after being
                          widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                          Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or JJ) Gilliam & Mary
                          J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin Co., TN.
                          Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and Elizabeth Sarah
                          Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                          Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.

                          Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW) Talley and Ollie Mae
                          Holt.
                          Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                          Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in an unmarked grave
                          at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her mother is unknown.

                          I would greatly appreciate any information that anyone could give me.

                          Many thanks,
                          Bob J. Gilliam

                          Yahoo! Groups Links






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • joy0420@charter.net
                          Bob, See also Richard Matthews Mathews family page on the Jackson Co AL site of AlGenWeb. My husband s g mother was thru James Puncheon Jim Mathews line.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 15, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Bob, See also Richard Matthews "Mathews" family page on the Jackson Co AL site of AlGenWeb. My husband's g'mother was thru James "Puncheon Jim" Mathews line.
                            You referred to the "Black Dutch" as being a cover for American Indian ancestry, and in some cases this was true. Also, there were peoples from the Black Forest region of Germany who referred to themselves as Black Dutch. It gets real dicey, esp since we are a country of immigrants. Thought that little tidbit might help you in your search.
                            Also, there are 2 "markers" for probable American Indian ancestry - shovel back teeth & a prominent "Anatolian" bump on the back of their head. In most N. European descendants the backs of their 4 upper front teeth are flat. In those with Amer Indian anscestry, the backs of the teeth have a curve much like a shovel. The "Anatolian" bump - if you run your fingers straight up your neck to the base of your skull, keep going, you will come to the occipital bone. In those of Amer Indian heritage this "Bump" will be very prominent, and often appears as a ridge along the base of the skull where it joins the spine.
                            I should also note that these 2 features not only can signify Amer Indian heritage, but also Melungeon heritage. Those peoples are a mixed race (mixture still unknown) but thought to be Portuguese, Amer Indian, African American, and others. Because they were neither black nor white nor Indian, they too referred to themselves at times as "Black Dutch", mainly b/c as you know there was much racial bias back in the day.
                            Hope all this helps, or is at least interesting.


                            ---- Bob Gilliam <bgreat@...> wrote:
                            > Oh yes, forgot Rooster. Don't know about Thomas Jefferson Holt yet but they were probably closely related. Don't know where Luther Holt lived in Arkansas yet. We live in Knox County, TN and may find more info locally and will let you know.
                            >
                            > We found a Rutha A Smith who was probably wife to Isaac Dock Holt. She was born in Cocke Co. TN, 1857 and was listed as "deaf". The family had no father at home in 1870 and she was attending school with Nancy Smith as head of house.
                            > How do you find out if they are all or part Indian? My great grandparents (Andrew Jackson and Luvinia Mathews Evett) told me they were part "Black Dutch" and now the Indians say that was a standard "Cover".
                            >
                            > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                            > Bob,
                            > Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
                            > everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
                            > Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
                            > from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
                            > My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
                            > Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
                            > Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
                            > between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
                            > grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
                            > is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
                            > He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
                            > Arkansas your Holts lived?
                            >
                            > Yes,
                            >
                            > >
                            > > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
                            > > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
                            > > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
                            > > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
                            > > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
                            > > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
                            > > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
                            > > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
                            > > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
                            > > home and could be reached there.
                            > >
                            > > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
                            > > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
                            > > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
                            > > so I need information about her.
                            > > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
                            > > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
                            > > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
                            > > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
                            > > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
                            > > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
                            > > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
                            > > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
                            > > graves soon.
                            > >
                            > > Bob Gilliam
                            > >
                            > > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                            > > Hi Bob,
                            > > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
                            > > Talley and Sina Crumley.
                            > > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
                            > > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
                            > > exchange information with you.
                            > > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
                            > > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
                            > > Jesse
                            > > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
                            > > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
                            > > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
                            > > Sam
                            > >
                            > > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > Hello!
                            > > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
                            > > > have just
                            > > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
                            > > > genealogical research,
                            > > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
                            > > > Creek, etc.)
                            > > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
                            > > trace
                            > > > some of my
                            > > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
                            > > 1800.
                            > > >
                            > > > My maternal grandparents were:
                            > > >
                            > > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
                            > > > Mountain.
                            > > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
                            > > > ??_______ (maiden
                            > > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                            > > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
                            > > > buried at the
                            > > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
                            > > >
                            > > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
                            > > &
                            > > > Luvenia
                            > > > Matthews.
                            > > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
                            > > > Evett and Susan
                            > > > Ann Grider.
                            > > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
                            > > > "Mathews"
                            > > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
                            > > >
                            > > > My paternal grandparents were:
                            > > >
                            > > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
                            > > who
                            > > > after being
                            > > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                            > > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
                            > > JJ)
                            > > > Gilliam & Mary
                            > > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
                            > > > Co., TN.
                            > > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
                            > > > Elizabeth Sarah
                            > > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                            > > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
                            > > >
                            > > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
                            > > > Talley and Ollie Mae
                            > > > Holt.
                            > > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                            > > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
                            > > an
                            > > > unmarked grave
                            > > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
                            > > > mother is unknown.
                            > > >
                            > > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
                            > > > anyone could give me.
                            > > >
                            > > > Many thanks,
                            > > > Bob J. Gilliam
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________________________
                            > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                            > > protection around
                            > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                            > > removed]
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            > http://mail.yahoo.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • lydia flack
                            Rutha Holt was not a smith her fathers name starkie shaver mother percilla from cocke co Tenn. .she married a Charlie Turner and then Dock Holt around 1900
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 15, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Rutha Holt was not a smith her fathers name starkie shaver mother percilla
                              from cocke co Tenn. .she married a Charlie Turner and then Dock Holt around 1900
                              She also was not deaf how ever she did only have one leg ,from gun falling over and getting
                              her leg also I think Dock Holt also had one leg from a logging accident . They traveled to Arkansas
                              to visit realities and he died there and he was brought back and was buried in Jackson co
                              She later return to Arkansas to die and be buried there ......Lydia llflack@...

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Bob Gilliam
                              Thanks Joy, That s good information and I have both of those characteristics very strongly. I haven t seen any Dutch, German or Malungeon ancestry in the
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 15, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Thanks Joy, That's good information and I have both of those characteristics very strongly. I haven't seen any Dutch, German or Malungeon ancestry in the geneology but we do have Malungeons living here in east TN, especially in Harriman, TN. The one's I know have dark skin and blue eyes. James "Puncheon Jim" Mathews was my great-great grandfather's youngest brother and my great grandmother was Luvinia Clarcy Mathews Evett who told me many stories about the family moving to Alabama and then the Oklahoma territory.
                                Thanks again, Bob.

                                joy0420@... wrote:
                                Bob, See also Richard Matthews "Mathews" family page on the Jackson Co AL site of AlGenWeb. My husband's g'mother was thru James "Puncheon Jim" Mathews line.
                                You referred to the "Black Dutch" as being a cover for American Indian ancestry, and in some cases this was true. Also, there were peoples from the Black Forest region of Germany who referred to themselves as Black Dutch. It gets real dicey, esp since we are a country of immigrants. Thought that little tidbit might help you in your search.
                                Also, there are 2 "markers" for probable American Indian ancestry - shovel back teeth & a prominent "Anatolian" bump on the back of their head. In most N. European descendants the backs of their 4 upper front teeth are flat. In those with Amer Indian anscestry, the backs of the teeth have a curve much like a shovel. The "Anatolian" bump - if you run your fingers straight up your neck to the base of your skull, keep going, you will come to the occipital bone. In those of Amer Indian heritage this "Bump" will be very prominent, and often appears as a ridge along the base of the skull where it joins the spine.
                                I should also note that these 2 features not only can signify Amer Indian heritage, but also Melungeon heritage. Those peoples are a mixed race (mixture still unknown) but thought to be Portuguese, Amer Indian, African American, and others. Because they were neither black nor white nor Indian, they too referred to themselves at times as "Black Dutch", mainly b/c as you know there was much racial bias back in the day.
                                Hope all this helps, or is at least interesting.

                                ---- Bob Gilliam <bgreat@...> wrote:
                                > Oh yes, forgot Rooster. Don't know about Thomas Jefferson Holt yet but they were probably closely related. Don't know where Luther Holt lived in Arkansas yet. We live in Knox County, TN and may find more info locally and will let you know.
                                >
                                > We found a Rutha A Smith who was probably wife to Isaac Dock Holt. She was born in Cocke Co. TN, 1857 and was listed as "deaf". The family had no father at home in 1870 and she was attending school with Nancy Smith as head of house.
                                > How do you find out if they are all or part Indian? My great grandparents (Andrew Jackson and Luvinia Mathews Evett) told me they were part "Black Dutch" and now the Indians say that was a standard "Cover".
                                >
                                > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                                > Bob,
                                > Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
                                > everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
                                > Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
                                > from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
                                > My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
                                > Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
                                > Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
                                > between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
                                > grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
                                > is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
                                > He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
                                > Arkansas your Holts lived?
                                >
                                > Yes,
                                >
                                > >
                                > > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
                                > > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
                                > > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
                                > > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
                                > > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
                                > > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
                                > > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
                                > > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
                                > > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
                                > > home and could be reached there.
                                > >
                                > > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
                                > > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
                                > > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
                                > > so I need information about her.
                                > > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
                                > > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
                                > > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
                                > > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
                                > > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
                                > > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
                                > > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
                                > > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
                                > > graves soon.
                                > >
                                > > Bob Gilliam
                                > >
                                > > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                                > > Hi Bob,
                                > > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
                                > > Talley and Sina Crumley.
                                > > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
                                > > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
                                > > exchange information with you.
                                > > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
                                > > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
                                > > Jesse
                                > > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
                                > > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
                                > > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
                                > > Sam
                                > >
                                > > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Hello!
                                > > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
                                > > > have just
                                > > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
                                > > > genealogical research,
                                > > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
                                > > > Creek, etc.)
                                > > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
                                > > trace
                                > > > some of my
                                > > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
                                > > 1800.
                                > > >
                                > > > My maternal grandparents were:
                                > > >
                                > > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
                                > > > Mountain.
                                > > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
                                > > > ??_______ (maiden
                                > > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                                > > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
                                > > > buried at the
                                > > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
                                > > >
                                > > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
                                > > &
                                > > > Luvenia
                                > > > Matthews.
                                > > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
                                > > > Evett and Susan
                                > > > Ann Grider.
                                > > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
                                > > > "Mathews"
                                > > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
                                > > >
                                > > > My paternal grandparents were:
                                > > >
                                > > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
                                > > who
                                > > > after being
                                > > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                                > > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
                                > > JJ)
                                > > > Gilliam & Mary
                                > > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
                                > > > Co., TN.
                                > > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
                                > > > Elizabeth Sarah
                                > > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                                > > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
                                > > >
                                > > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
                                > > > Talley and Ollie Mae
                                > > > Holt.
                                > > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                                > > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
                                > > an
                                > > > unmarked grave
                                > > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
                                > > > mother is unknown.
                                > > >
                                > > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
                                > > > anyone could give me.
                                > > >
                                > > > Many thanks,
                                > > > Bob J. Gilliam
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________________________
                                > > Do You Yahoo!?
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                              • Michaele Swiderski
                                The melungeon info is very accurate. About 7 yrs ago I was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic as having a genetic illness called FMF. It is found in Appalachia among
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 15, 2006
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                                  The melungeon info is very accurate. About 7 yrs ago I was diagnosed at the Mayo Clinic as having a genetic illness called FMF. It is found in Appalachia among Melungeon people. It has to be on both sides of the family to develop the illness. They told me the same thing about the teeth, bump in skull and also some discoloration of my gums. It is thought the Portuguese may have bred with the Cherokee when they came over and that is how the illness was passed. FMF is common among Sephardic Jews from Spain, Portugal and North Africa. Genetic tests can be done to prove your American Indian heritage.

                                  Michaele
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Bob Gilliam
                                  To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 1:40 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Looking for Indian Ancestry


                                  Thanks Joy, That's good information and I have both of those characteristics very strongly. I haven't seen any Dutch, German or Malungeon ancestry in the geneology but we do have Malungeons living here in east TN, especially in Harriman, TN. The one's I know have dark skin and blue eyes. James "Puncheon Jim" Mathews was my great-great grandfather's youngest brother and my great grandmother was Luvinia Clarcy Mathews Evett who told me many stories about the family moving to Alabama and then the Oklahoma territory.
                                  Thanks again, Bob.

                                  joy0420@... wrote:
                                  Bob, See also Richard Matthews "Mathews" family page on the Jackson Co AL site of AlGenWeb. My husband's g'mother was thru James "Puncheon Jim" Mathews line.
                                  You referred to the "Black Dutch" as being a cover for American Indian ancestry, and in some cases this was true. Also, there were peoples from the Black Forest region of Germany who referred to themselves as Black Dutch. It gets real dicey, esp since we are a country of immigrants. Thought that little tidbit might help you in your search.
                                  Also, there are 2 "markers" for probable American Indian ancestry - shovel back teeth & a prominent "Anatolian" bump on the back of their head. In most N. European descendants the backs of their 4 upper front teeth are flat. In those with Amer Indian anscestry, the backs of the teeth have a curve much like a shovel. The "Anatolian" bump - if you run your fingers straight up your neck to the base of your skull, keep going, you will come to the occipital bone. In those of Amer Indian heritage this "Bump" will be very prominent, and often appears as a ridge along the base of the skull where it joins the spine.
                                  I should also note that these 2 features not only can signify Amer Indian heritage, but also Melungeon heritage. Those peoples are a mixed race (mixture still unknown) but thought to be Portuguese, Amer Indian, African American, and others. Because they were neither black nor white nor Indian, they too referred to themselves at times as "Black Dutch", mainly b/c as you know there was much racial bias back in the day.
                                  Hope all this helps, or is at least interesting.

                                  ---- Bob Gilliam <bgreat@...> wrote:
                                  > Oh yes, forgot Rooster. Don't know about Thomas Jefferson Holt yet but they were probably closely related. Don't know where Luther Holt lived in Arkansas yet. We live in Knox County, TN and may find more info locally and will let you know.
                                  >
                                  > We found a Rutha A Smith who was probably wife to Isaac Dock Holt. She was born in Cocke Co. TN, 1857 and was listed as "deaf". The family had no father at home in 1870 and she was attending school with Nancy Smith as head of house.
                                  > How do you find out if they are all or part Indian? My great grandparents (Andrew Jackson and Luvinia Mathews Evett) told me they were part "Black Dutch" and now the Indians say that was a standard "Cover".
                                  >
                                  > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                                  > Bob,
                                  > Tood and Daisy had 3 sons, the other one is O B,
                                  > everyone called him "rooster", married to Helen Jean
                                  > Roberts. He also lives in Scottsboro across the street
                                  > from Scottsboro Funeral Home.
                                  > My paternal grandmother was Lucy Jane Holt, dau of
                                  > Thomas Jefferson Holt and Elmira Daniel; born in cocke
                                  > Co Tn. I am wondering if there is a connection
                                  > between your Dock Holt and my grandmother, or great
                                  > grandfater, Thomas Jefferson Holt+Elmira Daniel. (this
                                  > is where I get my Indian ancestry-the Daniels)
                                  > He died in Clay Co Arkansas. Do you know what part of
                                  > Arkansas your Holts lived?
                                  >
                                  > Yes,
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > Jack and Ethel (my grandmother) lived in a house
                                  > > on my parents farm in Hollywood, AL from about 1960
                                  > > until their deaths. Jack Phillips had a daughter,
                                  > > Elizabeth Mae Johnson, deceased and no children.
                                  > > Jack Phillips son, J.B. (Tood) had two sons, now
                                  > > living and working in Scottsboro, AL. Donald and
                                  > > Charles D. Tood's widow (Daisy Hinkel Phillips)
                                  > > lives in Fackler with a Stevenson address. Their
                                  > > son Donald Phillips works at the Scottsboro funeral
                                  > > home and could be reached there.
                                  > >
                                  > > Also, Dock Holt was born in about 1854 in Cocke
                                  > > Conty, TN. His mother was listed as Mahala and
                                  > > Mahaley from N.C. and that is a brick wall so far,
                                  > > so I need information about her.
                                  > > My Aunt Sina (called Siney) Talley is still alive
                                  > > in her ninetys and said he looked like an Indian.
                                  > > He died in Arkansas while living with son Luther but
                                  > > was shipped back and she attended the funeral. She
                                  > > said his son (Ike) lived with Jack and Ethel
                                  > > Phillips until his death and is buried beside Dock
                                  > > in unmarked graves at Longacre cemetary in
                                  > > Stevenson. I hope to take her there to identify the
                                  > > graves soon.
                                  > >
                                  > > Bob Gilliam
                                  > >
                                  > > Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                                  > > Hi Bob,
                                  > > John William Talley's parents are William Buckner
                                  > > Talley and Sina Crumley.
                                  > > Your great grandfather is brother to my grandfather
                                  > > James Madison (Jim Talley). I would be happy to
                                  > > exchange information with you.
                                  > > William Buckener>Bradley W>Benoni Talley
                                  > > Sina' maiden name was Crumley. Her parents were
                                  > > Jesse
                                  > > Crumley and Emily Loftless.
                                  > > Was Ethel's second husband, Jack Phillips the father
                                  > > of Tood Phillips as we called him?
                                  > > Sam
                                  > >
                                  > > --- "Bob J. Gilliam" <bgreat@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > Hello!
                                  > > > I am Bob J. Gilliam, born in Scottsboro, AL, and
                                  > > > have just
                                  > > > discovered and joined this group. I am doing
                                  > > > genealogical research,
                                  > > > especially with regard to any Indian (Cherokee,
                                  > > > Creek, etc.)
                                  > > > heritage that I may have. I have been able to
                                  > > trace
                                  > > > some of my
                                  > > > ancestors in Jackson County, AL, back to circa
                                  > > 1800.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My maternal grandparents were:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Daniel H. (Dan) and Rosa Lee (Evett) Ivey of Crow
                                  > > > Mountain.
                                  > > > Rev. Dan Ivey's parents were Charles Ivey & Mary
                                  > > > ??_______ (maiden
                                  > > > name unknown, previously married to a "Summers").
                                  > > > Dan Ivey's grandfather may have been Harry Ivey,
                                  > > > buried at the
                                  > > > Austell Cemetery; his grandmother is unknown.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Rosa Lee Evett's parents were Andrew Jackson Evett
                                  > > &
                                  > > > Luvenia
                                  > > > Matthews.
                                  > > > Andrew Jackson Evett's parents were William James
                                  > > > Evett and Susan
                                  > > > Ann Grider.
                                  > > > Luvenia Matthews' parents were Wiley Matthews (or
                                  > > > "Mathews"
                                  > > > or "Mathis") and Zelphia Day.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > My paternal grandparents were:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Lemuel M. (LM) Gilliam and Ethel Talley Gilliam,
                                  > > who
                                  > > > after being
                                  > > > widowed, married Jack Phillips.
                                  > > > Lemuel Gilliam's parents were Jessup (Jessie or
                                  > > JJ)
                                  > > > Gilliam & Mary
                                  > > > J. ??_________ (maiden name unknown) of Franklin
                                  > > > Co., TN.
                                  > > > Jessup Gilliam's parents were William Gilliam and
                                  > > > Elizabeth Sarah
                                  > > > Roark of Franklin Co., TN.
                                  > > > Mary J.'s ______ parents are unknown.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Ethel Talley's parents were Johnny William (JW)
                                  > > > Talley and Ollie Mae
                                  > > > Holt.
                                  > > > Johnny W. Talley's parents are unknown.
                                  > > > Ollie Mae Holt's father was Dock Holt, buried in
                                  > > an
                                  > > > unmarked grave
                                  > > > at Longacre Cemetery in Stevenson, AL, and her
                                  > > > mother is unknown.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I would greatly appreciate any information that
                                  > > > anyone could give me.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Many thanks,
                                  > > > Bob J. Gilliam
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________________________
                                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                                  > > protection around
                                  > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
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                                  > > removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > __________________________________________________
                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                                  >
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                                  >

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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Sam McDowell
                                  Bob, Here are some links you might want to check out. I found proff of my Indian connection the Eastern cherokee application records 1906-1909.
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 15, 2006
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                                    Bob,
                                    Here are some links you might want to check out. I found proff of my Indian connection the Eastern cherokee application records 1906-1909.
                                    http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/heritage/native-american/
                                    http://www.lineages.com/InfoCenter/Records/cherokee.cfm
                                    http://www.genealogical.com/products/Eastern%20Cherokee%20by%20Blood,%201906-1910/9869.html
                                    If you don't know which family line has Indian and you just want to know if about yourself, you can do a DNA test.
                                    http://www.genetestlabs.com/spedntst/nativeindian.htm

                                    Sam
                                  • Bob Gilliam
                                    Thanks Sam, Do you know where the Holts lived in TN or Arkansas? The Talley site lists Viney Holt as Dock s sister but that would probably be by a second wife
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 16, 2006
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                                      Thanks Sam,

                                      Do you know where the Holts lived in TN or Arkansas? The Talley site lists Viney Holt as Dock's sister but that would probably be by a second wife if so. Do you know who Dock Holt's first wife was? She might have been Julia Lambert.
                                      Aunt Siney told me yesterday that Dock Holt had a wooden foot but didn't limp.

                                      Sam McDowell <sammc1973@...> wrote:
                                      Bob,
                                      Here are some links you might want to check out. I found proff of my Indian connection the Eastern cherokee application records 1906-1909.
                                      http://www.archives.gov/genealogy/heritage/native-american/
                                      http://www.lineages.com/InfoCenter/Records/cherokee.cfm
                                      http://www.genealogical.com/products/Eastern%20Cherokee%20by%20Blood,%201906-1910/9869.html
                                      If you don't know which family line has Indian and you just want to know if about yourself, you can do a DNA test.
                                      http://www.genetestlabs.com/spedntst/nativeindian.htm

                                      Sam





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Bob Gilliam
                                      Lydia, Thanks for the information. My aunt said all of the children were by Dock s first wife, he had a wooden foot from the ankle down and he outlived his
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 16, 2006
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                                        Lydia, Thanks for the information. My aunt said all of the children were by Dock's first wife, he had a wooden "foot" from the ankle down and he outlived his second wife (Ruthie) but didn't know of her having a wooden leg.

                                        Ollie Mae may have been named after Dock's mother (Mahala, Mahaley, Mahaly, Mahalie? which is an Indian word for "woman") and she rode a train from Fackler to Arkansas with a 9 day old baby and Ethel to see him.

                                        Where did Dock Holt live in TN and where in Arkansas did he live with his son Luther?

                                        Thanks, Bob

                                        lydia flack <llflack@...> wrote:
                                        Rutha Holt was not a smith her fathers name starkie shaver mother percilla
                                        from cocke co Tenn. .she married a Charlie Turner and then Dock Holt around 1900
                                        She also was not deaf how ever she did only have one leg ,from gun falling over and getting
                                        her leg also I think Dock Holt also had one leg from a logging accident . They traveled to Arkansas
                                        to visit realities and he died there and he was brought back and was buried in Jackson co
                                        She later return to Arkansas to die and be buried there ......Lydia llflack@...

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Sam McDowell
                                        My holts lived in Cocke Co Tn, moved to Jackson Co AL and had 2 children (1893 and 1896) and then moved to Kilgore, Clay Co Arkansas around 1898, he is buried
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 16, 2006
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                                          My holts lived in Cocke Co Tn, moved to Jackson Co AL and had 2 children (1893 and 1896) and then moved to Kilgore, Clay Co Arkansas around 1898, he is buried in Arkansas..
                                          I do not have a Dock Holt in my data bank, so I don't know anything about him. I wish I did. He is probably connected someway to my Thomas J Holt.
                                          Sam

                                          ----- Original Message ----
                                          From: Bob Gilliam <bgreat@...>
                                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Friday, June 16, 2006 10:27:44 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] RE: Looking for Indian Ancestry


                                          Thanks Sam,

                                          Do you know where the Holts lived in TN or Arkansas? The Talley site lists Viney Holt as Dock's sister but that would probably be by a second wife if so. Do you know who Dock Holt's first wife was? She might have been Julia Lambert.
                                          Aunt Siney told me yesterday that Dock Holt had a wooden foot but didn't limp.

                                          Sam McDowell <sammc1973@yahoo. com> wrote:
                                          Bob,
                                          Here are some links you might want to check out. I found proff of my Indian connection the Eastern cherokee application records 1906-1909.
                                          http://www.archives .gov/genealogy/ heritage/ native-american/
                                          http://www.lineages .com/InfoCenter/ Records/cherokee .cfm
                                          http://www.genealog ical.com/ products/ Eastern%20Cherok ee%20by%20Blood, %201906-1910/ 9869.html
                                          If you don't know which family line has Indian and you just want to know if about yourself, you can do a DNA test.
                                          http://www.genetest labs.com/ spedntst/ nativeindian. htm

                                          Sam

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • clay gullatt
                                          When looking for Indian ancestors a good bet is to look and see if any of their children, grandchildren or greatgrandchildren applied to be entered on one of
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 16, 2006
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                                            When looking for Indian ancestors a good bet is to look and see if any of their children, grandchildren or greatgrandchildren applied to be entered on one of the Indian Rolls.

                                            Most of the old one who stayed in the East actively hid their Indian ancestry.

                                            The mother of Juliet (Clark) Gullatt and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt, Gemima (Welch) Clark was full blooded Cherokee yet on all the census she is listed as white.It is rare indeed to see someone listed as Indian on the census East of the MS River. It was her grandchildren who applied to be entered on the rolls. A cousin told me that it was whispered that the Gullatt's were Indian but not out in the open until recently. They were denied as a great many who were Indian were denied.

                                            The state of Virginia denied that there were any Indians in their state until the 1970s. It was illegal to be an Indian in almost all of the Eastern states until the 1970s. Small wonder that their ancestry was hidden. Many children of White and Indian couples would be listed as mulattos on the census also, VA law required it.. All that mulatto means is mixed race.

                                            Clay


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Bob Gilliam
                                            Thanks, I don t know of any and they didn t want to be identified so there are no records. That explains the ideas that my family has, if I ever wanted to
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 20, 2006
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                                              Thanks,

                                              I don't know of any and they didn't want to be identified so there are no records. That explains the ideas that my family has, if I ever wanted to check into indian records or do anything dealing with legal matters, like records at the court house the response was always: "They'll come and take our place away". They also named the children names that appear on indian rolls like: Lighty or Lighty, Watie or Wady, Ollie for girls after Mahollie etc. They also said they were black Dutch but there are no records to indicate that.

                                              clay gullatt <blackcloud27030@...> wrote:
                                              When looking for Indian ancestors a good bet is to look and see if any of their children, grandchildren or greatgrandchildren applied to be entered on one of the Indian Rolls.

                                              Most of the old one who stayed in the East actively hid their Indian ancestry.

                                              The mother of Juliet (Clark) Gullatt and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt, Gemima (Welch) Clark was full blooded Cherokee yet on all the census she is listed as white.It is rare indeed to see someone listed as Indian on the census East of the MS River. It was her grandchildren who applied to be entered on the rolls. A cousin told me that it was whispered that the Gullatt's were Indian but not out in the open until recently. They were denied as a great many who were Indian were denied.

                                              The state of Virginia denied that there were any Indians in their state until the 1970s. It was illegal to be an Indian in almost all of the Eastern states until the 1970s. Small wonder that their ancestry was hidden. Many children of White and Indian couples would be listed as mulattos on the census also, VA law required it.. All that mulatto means is mixed race.

                                              Clay

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