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Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County

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  • Karl Plenge
    Question for those who know more about DNA testing than I do (which would be almost anyone): As mtDNA is passed down generally unchanged from mother to
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 20, 2013
      Question for those who know more about DNA testing than I do (which would be almost anyone):  As mtDNA is passed down generally unchanged from mother to daughter, then the only source of changes would be mutations.  Has anyone in the scientific community made an estimate of how many generations pass (on average) between mutations?
       
    • Chris Roberts
      HI Karl, Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it depends on which area of the mitochondria. The control region has a faster
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
        HI Karl,
         
        Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it depends on which area of the mitochondria.  The control region has a faster mutation rate and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more likely to be useful for genealogical purposes.  The coding region mutates slower and is the region used to determine haplogroups (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.)    Scientific papers can differ on the average mutation rate, depending on the methodology used as well as other factors.  Since I am not smart enough to determine which rate might be correct, I have included a link to “The Mutation Rate in the Human mtDNA Control Region” which addresses the mutation rate of the control region.  Further, a search for MTDNA mutation rate will produce numerous results.
         
        Hopefully, others will have a better answer.
         
        Christine
         
         
         From: Karl Plenge
        Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 5:50 PM
        Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County
         
         

        Question for those who know more about DNA testing than I do (which would be almost anyone):  As mtDNA is passed down generally unchanged from mother to daughter, then the only source of changes would be mutations.  Has anyone in the scientific community made an estimate of how many generations pass (on average) between mutations?
         
      • Stephen
        South Carolina really had nothing to do with this area in relation to the Native Americans.  Any natives left here after the Trail of Tears would spend the
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
          South Carolina really had nothing to do with this area in relation to the Native Americans.  Any natives left here after the Trail of Tears would spend the rest of their existence trying to be "white."  Because of persecution?  No.  They weren't really persecuted, but they had to pay higher taxes.  Its going to be hard proving NA ancestry in a family that has spent 150 years trying to escape NA heritage.  Most of the time they would be listed as "FPC" (Free Presons of Color) on the early 1800s US census.   

          "No man is justified in doing evil on the ground of expedience." Theodore Roosevelt
        • Roger Burbank
          Hello Anyone who is on ancestry.com-  I recommend taking the autosomal test.  It opened a lot of doors for me and found a lot of cousins.  Plus it will
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
            Hello'

            Anyone who is on ancestry.com-  I recommend taking the autosomal test.  It opened a lot of doors for me and found a lot of cousins.  Plus it will give you your family origins/ethnicity.  It does not separate lines but if you have done the family research already? it will all fall in place.  Rog


            From: Chris Roberts <cmroberts03@...>
            To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 12:09 AM
            Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County

             
            HI Karl,
             
            Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it depends on which area of the mitochondria.  The control region has a faster mutation rate and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more likely to be useful for genealogical purposes.  The coding region mutates slower and is the region used to determine haplogroups (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.)    Scientific papers can differ on the average mutation rate, depending on the methodology used as well as other factors.  Since I am not smart enough to determine which rate might be correct, I have included a link to “The Mutation Rate in the Human mtDNA Control Region” which addresses the mutation rate of the control region.  Further, a search for MTDNA mutation rate will produce numerous results.
             
            Hopefully, others will have a better answer.
             
            Christine
             
             
             From: Karl Plenge
            Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 5:50 PM
            Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County
             
             
            Question for those who know more about DNA testing than I do (which would be almost anyone):  As mtDNA is passed down generally unchanged from mother to daughter, then the only source of changes would be mutations.  Has anyone in the scientific community made an estimate of how many generations pass (on average) between mutations?
             


          • Kyle Davenport
            I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation rate as he is to the utility of the mtDNA tests. The answer is a couple questions down from the one
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
              I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation rate as he is to the utility of the mtDNA tests.   The answer is a couple questions down from the one Christine links to.  (6. How many generations back does mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing trace?)   Mutations happen really, really slowly, even in the HVR1&2 test (Hyper-Variable Regions) that FamilyTreeDNA offers.     You could conceivably test a genealogy question with the Full mtDNA test, but that is expensive.   My experience, and from what I have heard, is that most people do not even have a match at the HVR1&2 level.


              On 09/21/2013 02:09 AM, Chris Roberts wrote:
               

              HI Karl,
               
              Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it depends on which area of the mitochondria.  The control region has a faster mutation rate and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more likely to be useful for genealogical purposes.  The coding region mutates slower and is the region used to determine haplogroups (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.)   ...
            • Karl Plenge
              Thank you for your response, Christine. With such a slow rate of change, it seems like the only usefulness of mtDNA would be aggregating people into very large
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
                
                Thank you for your response, Christine.
                 
                With such a slow rate of change, it seems like the only usefulness of mtDNA would be aggregating people into very large subgroups of the human population (such as the discussion on this board concerning Cherokee ancestry), since so many people would have the same mtDNA.
                 
                Is this correct, and is there anything else I am missing regarding this?
                 
              • Chris Roberts
                In many cases that is correct Karl. However, a full MtDNA sequence has the possibility to be more indicative of a close match. Although I have numerous
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
                  In many cases that is correct Karl.  However, a full MtDNA sequence has the possibility to be more indicative of a close match.  Although I have numerous matches at the HRV I and II level, I have no known matches at the full sequence.  However, not everyone tests to that level.   Should I have a match at that level, the probability of a relationship in a genealogical time frame would be much higher.   I have read of folks using MtDNA to validate trees and some of finding relatives, but I have not found effective in my situation.  I am sure some would argue the point, but I concur with your assessment.
                   
                  Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 4:04 PM
                  Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County
                   
                   
                  Thank you for your response, Christine.
                   
                  With such a slow rate of change, it seems like the only usefulness of mtDNA would be aggregating people into very large subgroups of the human population (such as the discussion on this board concerning Cherokee ancestry), since so many people would have the same mtDNA.
                   
                  Is this correct, and is there anything else I am missing regarding this?
                   
                • Pat 11
                  I recently read a couple of articles that say that many (most?) individuals have more than one genome in them! I was totally gobsmacked by this. I wonder what
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 21, 2013
                    I recently read a couple of articles that say that many (most?) individuals have more than one genome in them! I was totally gobsmacked by this. 

                    I wonder what the implications for DNA testing are? 

                    Here's a NYT article - if the link doesn't work google 
                    "One person two genomes"


                    On Sep 22, 2013, at 13:52, "Chris Roberts" <cmroberts03@...> wrote:

                     

                    In many cases that is correct Karl.  However, a full MtDNA sequence has the possibility to be more indicative of a close match.  Although I have numerous matches at the HRV I and II level, I have no known matches at the full sequence.  However, not everyone tests to that level.   Should I have a match at that level, the probability of a relationship in a genealogical time frame would be much higher.   I have read of folks using MtDNA to validate trees and some of finding relatives, but I have not found effective in my situation.  I am sure some would argue the point, but I concur with your assessment.
                     
                    Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 4:04 PM
                    Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County
                     
                     
                    Thank you for your response, Christine.
                     
                    With such a slow rate of change, it seems like the only usefulness of mtDNA would be aggregating people into very large subgroups of the human population (such as the discussion on this board concerning Cherokee ancestry), since so many people would have the same mtDNA.
                     
                    Is this correct, and is there anything else I am missing regarding this?
                     

                  • Kyle Davenport
                    Nice article.???????????????????????????????????????????????? So they are finding the foreign genomes are not just contaminating the original genomes but
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                      Nice article.???????????????????????????????????????????????? So they are finding the foreign genomes are not just "contaminating" the original genomes but actively functioning and replicating along side them.???????????????????????????????????????????????? It is simply amazing that most mothers have neurons derived from their children.

                      As a scientist, I can share that the real world often distorts and confounds our laboratory results.???????????????????????????????????????????????? The autosomal DNA test itself is a statistical conclusion - "which markers were bound to most often".???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Give me that Minority Report!

                      Kyle


                      On 09/22/2013 12:58 AM, Pat 11 wrote:
                      ????????????????????????
                      I recently read a couple of articles that say that many (most?) individuals have more than one genome in them! I was totally gobsmacked by this.????????????????????????

                      I wonder what the implications for DNA testing are?????????????????????????

                      Here's a NYT article - if the link doesn't work google????????????????????????
                      "One person two genomes"


                    • Roger Burbank
                      Kyle, as I am not a Scientist I will ask you this- if a male wants to go back on his maternal side what test would he take?  I was told autosomal is closest
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                        Kyle, as I am not a Scientist I will ask you this- if a male wants to go back on his maternal side what test would he take?  I was told autosomal is closest your going to get.  Rog



                        From: Kyle Davenport
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 7:40 AM
                        Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: Cherokee Blood in Jackson County

                         
                        Nice article.???????????????????????????????????????????????? So they are finding the foreign genomes are not just "contaminating" the original genomes but actively functioning and replicating along side them.???????????????????????????????????????????????? It is simply amazing that most mothers have neurons derived from their children.

                        As a scientist, I can share that the real world often distorts and confounds our laboratory results.???????????????????????????????????????????????? The autosomal DNA test itself is a statistical conclusion - "which markers were bound to most often".???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Give me that Minority Report!

                        Kyle


                        On 09/22/2013 12:58 AM, Pat 11 wrote:
                        ????????????????????????
                        I recently read a couple of articles that say that many (most?) individuals have more than one genome in them! I was totally gobsmacked by this.????????????????????????

                        I wonder what the implications for DNA testing are?????????????????????????

                        Here's a NYT article - if the link doesn't work google????????????????????????
                        "One person two genomes"

                        http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/09/17/science/dna-double-take.html?pagewanted=all&

                        Pat Elleven



                      • Kyle Davenport
                        To answer specific genealogy questions, you have to be able to get your known relatives to get DNA tested. So what kind of test you want depends entirely on
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                          To answer specific genealogy questions, you have to be able to get your
                          known relatives to get DNA tested. So what kind of test you want
                          depends entirely on who agrees to get tested.

                          I have not pursued that kind of inquiry , so instead, among a couple
                          thousand of my autosomal DNA matches, I have been lucky to confirm
                          common ancestors in about 15 cases. The common ancestors were 6 to 12
                          generations back.

                          Kyle

                          On 09/22/2013 10:51 AM, Roger Burbank wrote:
                          > Kyle, as I am not a Scientist I will ask you this- if a male wants to
                          > go back on his maternal side what test would he take? I was told
                          > autosomal is closest your going to get. Rog

                        • waccess@bellsouth.net
                          WOW! It ll be interesting to see what this might mean to genealogical DNA.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013

                            WOW! It'll be interesting to see what this might mean to genealogical DNA.

                          • waccess@bellsouth.net
                            I have had matches for the Full Sequence mtDNA testing, but in order to figure out who is who and what relation at what generation with mtDNA, we have to have
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                              I have had matches for the Full Sequence mtDNA testing, but in order to figure out who is who and what relation at what generation with mtDNA, we have to have documentation to match. With y-DNA tests, it seems to be easier. Perhaps that's because the last name is generally the same throughout the generations, but with women the name changes every generation. Of course, we do have two men who don't have the same last name, but do match very closely at the 111-marker test. We think this could be because of a legal or casual adoption, that two brothers took different surnames back when people were choosing their last names (900-1200 A.D.), or hanky panky. Based on documentation, we know that this happened before the late 1700s.

                              The autosomal DNA testing is going to be similar to the mtDNA. It just doesn't go back as many generations. It will show matches, but then we have to figure out HOW we match through documentation. In addition, it will estimate the relationship, but that can be off by a generation or two. For example, my first cousin shows as a second cousin, and we KNOW that she's a first cousin.



                              --- In jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davenport wrote:
                              >
                              > I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation rate as he is
                              > to the utility of the mtDNA tests. The answer is a couple questions
                              > down from the one Christine links to. (6. How many generations back
                              > does mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing trace?
                              > ) Mutations
                              > happen really, really slowly, even in the HVR1&2 test (Hyper-Variable
                              > Regions) that FamilyTreeDNA offers. You could conceivably test a
                              > genealogy question with the Full mtDNA test, but that is expensive. My
                              > experience, and from what I have heard, is that most people do not even
                              > have a match at the HVR1&2 level.
                              >
                              >
                              > On 09/21/2013 02:09 AM, Chris Roberts wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > HI Karl,
                              > >
                              > > Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it
                              > > depends on which area of the mitochondria. The control region has a
                              > > faster mutation rate and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more
                              > > likely to be useful for genealogical purposes. The coding region
                              > > mutates slower and is the region used to determine haplogroups
                              > > (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.) ...
                              >


                            • Jewel Casey
                               enough is enough, go to the DNA testing site to find out     ... From: waccess@bellsouth.net To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, September
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                                
                                enough is enough, go to the DNA testing site to find out
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 2:26 PM
                                Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Re: DNA

                                 

                                I have had matches for the Full Sequence mtDNA testing, but in order to figure out who is who and what relation at what generation with mtDNA, we have to have documentation to match. With y-DNA tests, it seems to be easier. Perhaps that's because the last name is generally the same throughout the generations, but with women the name changes every generation. Of course, we do have two men who don't have the same last name, but do match very closely at the 111-marker test. We think this could be because of a legal or casual adoption, that two brothers took different surnames back when people were choosing their last names (900-1200 A.D.), or hanky panky. Based on documentation, we know that this happened before the late 1700s.

                                The autosomal DNA testing is going to be similar to the mtDNA. It just doesn't go back as many generations. It will show matches, but then we have to figure out HOW we match through documentation. In addition, it will estimate the relationship, but that can be off by a generation or two. For example, my first cousin shows as a second cousin, and we KNOW that she's a first cousin.



                                --- In jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davenport wrote:
                                >
                                > I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation rate as he is
                                > to the utility of the mtDNA tests. The answer is a couple questions
                                > down from the one Christine links to. (6. How many generations back
                                > does mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing trace?
                                > ) Mutations
                                > happen really, really slowly, even in the HVR12 test (Hyper-Variable
                                > Regions) that FamilyTreeDNA offers. You could conceivably test a
                                > genealogy question with the Full mtDNA test, but that is expensive. My
                                > experience, and from what I have heard, is that most people do not even
                                > have a match at the HVR12 level.
                                >
                                >
                                > On 09/21/2013 02:09 AM, Chris Roberts wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > HI Karl,
                                > >
                                > > Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it
                                > > depends on which area of the mitochondria. The control region has a
                                > > faster mutation rate and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more
                                > > likely to be useful for genealogical purposes. The coding region
                                > > mutates slower and is the region used to determine haplogroups
                                > > (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.) ...
                                >


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                              • waccess@bellsouth.net
                                You re right, Rog. I recommend the FTDNA Family Finder test because they have the largest database. I ve had family members who tested with ancestry and 23 and
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013

                                  You're right, Rog. I recommend the FTDNA Family Finder test because they have the largest database. I've had family members who tested with ancestry and 23 and me and later chose to upload their DNA data to FTDNA because of the lack of matches from those original test sites.

                                  Another option for tracking your mother's female line is, if you have a sister, a cousin, or an aunt, to have one of them to take the mtDNA test. I recommend the Full Sequence testings because you'll get more reliable matches. The goal is to test a female who directly descends from your mother; i.e., your sister, or a female who descends directly from your mother's mother; i.e., a first cousin or an aunt. For example, I had a female first cousin tested to track my father's mother. My first cousin's mother was my aunt and my daddy's sister. Hope that makes sense. The only way to test for your mother's father's direct line is to find an uncle or male first cousin who is a direct descendent of your mother's father.

                                  The point is that the woman inherits mtDNA only from her mother and autosomal DNA from both her her father and mother. A man inherits y-DNA from his father, mtDNA from his mother, and autosomal from both. FTDNA has people you can talk to to help you decide what test to take. The website and contact number can be found here: http://www.familytreedna.com

                                • waccess@bellsouth.net
                                  Hi Karl, This website has an interesting review of different DNA topics that are explained in layman s terms: http://dna-explained.com/2013/09/15/why-dna-test/
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                                    Hi Karl, This website has an interesting review of different DNA topics that are explained in layman's terms: http://dna-explained.com/2013/09/15/why-dna-test/

                                    If a female tests at the Full Sequence, then you have a chance of matching an actual relative sometime within the last five to six generations. If she only tests at the HVR1 and HVR2, she will get matches from further back, making it harder to figure out where she matches these people. Testing at the HVR1 level will probably produce a ton of matches, but you'll waste a lot of time trying to figure out how you're related because there will be so many from hundreds of years ago. Since women take their husbands' names, it's more difficult to figure out exactly where the match is. My recommendation is to have the test done at the Full Sequence level. Though you may not have a match immediately, more and more women are being tested, so that will help build the database. In the past, it seemed we were more interested in tracing our fathers' lines, so more men were tested, but that's changing.

                                    By the way, are you trying to trace your mother's direct female line or your mother's father's line or both? That will make a difference in the tests you want to consider.



                                    --- In jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com, "Karl Plenge" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Thank you for your response, Christine.
                                    >
                                    > With such a slow rate of change, it seems like the only usefulness of mtDNA would be aggregating people into very large subgroups of the human population (such as the discussion on this board concerning Cherokee ancestry), since so many people would have the same mtDNA.
                                    >
                                    > Is this correct, and is there anything else I am missing regarding this?
                                    >


                                  • Chris Roberts
                                    Just my thoughts, DNA testing has some very specific uses, but it is never a substitute for the paper trail.  I view it as another tool in the arsenal. It can
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                                      Just my thoughts, DNA testing has some very specific uses, but it is never a substitute for the paper trail.  I view it as another tool in the arsenal. It can provide hints to areas not previously explored, identify separate lines with the same surname, support our theories and identify errors in our paper trail.   I completely agree that YDNA and autosomal testing have a greater potential to assist with our research.
                                       
                                      Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:26 PM
                                      Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Re: DNA
                                       
                                       

                                      I have had matches for the Full Sequence mtDNA testing, but in order to figure out who is who and what relation at what generation with mtDNA, we have to have documentation to match. With y-DNA tests, it seems to be easier. Perhaps that's because the last name is generally the same throughout the generations, but with women the name changes every generation. Of course, we do have two men who don't have the same last name, but do match very closely at the 111-marker test. We think this could be because of a legal or casual adoption, that two brothers took different surnames back when people were choosing their last names (900-1200 A.D.), or hanky panky. Based on documentation, we know that this happened before the late 1700s.

                                      The autosomal DNA testing is going to be similar to the mtDNA. It just doesn't go back as many generations. It will show matches, but then we have to figure out HOW we match through documentation. In addition, it will estimate the relationship, but that can be off by a generation or two. For example, my first cousin shows as a second cousin, and we KNOW that she's a first cousin.



                                      --- In jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davenport wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation
                                      rate as he is
                                      > to the utility of the mtDNA tests. The answer is a couple
                                      questions
                                      > down from the one Christine links to. (6. How many generations
                                      back
                                      > does mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing trace?
                                      > )
                                      Mutations
                                      > happen really, really slowly, even in the HVR12 test
                                      (Hyper-Variable
                                      > Regions) that FamilyTreeDNA offers. You could
                                      conceivably test a
                                      > genealogy question with the Full mtDNA test, but that
                                      is expensive. My
                                      > experience, and from what I have heard, is that most
                                      people do not even
                                      > have a match at the HVR12 level.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 09/21/2013 02:09 AM, Chris Roberts wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > HI Karl,
                                      > >
                                      > > Yes, Karl estimates have
                                      been made by the scientific community, but it
                                      > > depends on which area
                                      of the mitochondria. The control region has a
                                      > > faster mutation rate
                                      and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more
                                      > > likely to be useful
                                      for genealogical purposes. The coding region
                                      > > mutates slower and is
                                      the region used to determine haplogroups
                                      > >
                                      (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.) ...
                                      >


                                    • Roger Burbank
                                      Absolutely correct, just another tool. When they match, its a great feeling.  Rog From: Chris Roberts To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday,
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 22, 2013
                                        Absolutely correct, just another tool. When they match, its a great feeling.  Rog


                                        From: Chris Roberts
                                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 3:19 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Re: DNA

                                         
                                        Just my thoughts, DNA testing has some very specific uses, but it is never a substitute for the paper trail.  I view it as another tool in the arsenal. It can provide hints to areas not previously explored, identify separate lines with the same surname, support our theories and identify errors in our paper trail.   I completely agree that YDNA and autosomal testing have a greater potential to assist with our research.
                                         
                                        Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:26 PM
                                        Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Re: DNA
                                         
                                         
                                        I have had matches for the Full Sequence mtDNA testing, but in order to figure out who is who and what relation at what generation with mtDNA, we have to have documentation to match. With y-DNA tests, it seems to be easier. Perhaps that's because the last name is generally the same throughout the generations, but with women the name changes every generation. Of course, we do have two men who don't have the same last name, but do match very closely at the 111-marker test. We think this could be because of a legal or casual adoption, that two brothers took different surnames back when people were choosing their last names (900-1200 A.D.), or hanky panky. Based on documentation, we know that this happened before the late 1700s.

                                        The autosomal DNA testing is going to be similar to the mtDNA. It just doesn't go back as many generations. It will show matches, but then we have to figure out HOW we match through documentation. In addition, it will estimate the relationship, but that can be off by a generation or two. For example, my first cousin shows as a second cousin, and we KNOW that she's a first cousin.



                                        --- In jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davenport wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation
                                        rate as he is
                                        > to the utility of the mtDNA tests. The answer is a couple
                                        questions
                                        > down from the one Christine links to. (6. How many generations
                                        back
                                        > does mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing trace?
                                        > )
                                        Mutations
                                        > happen really, really slowly, even in the HVR12 test
                                        (Hyper-Variable
                                        > Regions) that FamilyTreeDNA offers. You could
                                        conceivably test a
                                        > genealogy question with the Full mtDNA test, but that
                                        is expensive. My
                                        > experience, and from what I have heard, is that most
                                        people do not even
                                        > have a match at the HVR12 level.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On 09/21/2013 02:09 AM, Chris Roberts wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > HI Karl,
                                        > >
                                        > > Yes, Karl estimates have
                                        been made by the scientific community, but it
                                        > > depends on which area
                                        of the mitochondria. The control region has a
                                        > > faster mutation rate
                                        and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more
                                        > > likely to be useful
                                        for genealogical purposes. The coding region
                                        > > mutates slower and is
                                        the region used to determine haplogroups
                                        > >
                                        (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.) ...
                                        >




                                      • D Bratton
                                        I am U5 began in the levant to scoltland then America � Diana On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Kyle Davenport wrote: � I suspect
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 24, 2013
                                          I am U5 began in the levant to scoltland then America
                                          Diana


                                          On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Kyle Davenport <kdavenpo@...> wrote:

                                          I suspect Karl is not so much interested in the mutation rate as he is to the utility of the mtDNA tests.�� The answer is a couple questions down from the one Christine links to.� (6. How many generations back does mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing trace?) � Mutations happen really, really slowly, even in the HVR1&2 test (Hyper-Variable Regions) that FamilyTreeDNAoffers.���� You could conceivably test a genealogy question with the Full mtDNA test, but that is expensive.�� My experience, and from what I have heard, is that most people do not even have a match at the HVR1&2 level.


                                          On 09/21/2013 02:09 AM, Chris Roberts wrote:

                                          HI Karl,
                                          Yes, Karl estimates have been made by the scientific community, but it depends on which area of the mitochondria.� The control region has a faster mutation rate and reflects newer mutations, thus it is more likely to be useful for genealogical purposes.� The coding region mutates slower and is the region used to determine haplogroups (http://www.familytreedna.com/faq/answers.aspx?id=10#2137.)�� ...

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