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1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES

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  • Ann B. Chambless
    The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real estate values). I
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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      The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
      state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
      estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
      on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
      other personal items that might have been included?
      In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
      $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
      slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
      ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
      what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
      estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
      accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
      included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
      help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
      Ann B. Chambless



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Annette Bradford
      We found a Texas state census in 1866 that taxed people on their vehicles (number andtypes of wagons) and on whether they owned a piano, though I suspect this
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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        We found a Texas state census in 1866 that taxed people on their vehicles (number andtypes of wagons) and on whether they owned a piano, though I suspect this was a sly way to tax saloons. In colonial NC, people were taxed on the number of closets in their homes. David's great great grandfather in Roane Co TN was taxed for the ferry he operated. I wonder if there is a way to correlate worth with slave census or agricultural census.

        Sent from my iPad

        On Mar 3, 2012, at 4:59 PM, "Ann B. Chambless" <rabc123@...> wrote:

        > The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
        > state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
        > estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
        > on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
        > other personal items that might have been included?
        > In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
        > $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
        > slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
        > ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
        > what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
        > estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
        > accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
        > included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
        > help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
        > Ann B. Chambless
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Anne P. Johnson
        I would guess it also included household items, farming implements, and animals (cattle/sheep, horses, etc.) I would guess the same things that are listed in
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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          I would guess it also included household items, farming implements,
          and animals (cattle/sheep, horses, etc.) I would guess the same things
          that are listed in wills of the time.

          Interested to hear what others come up with.

          anne
          On Mar 3, 2012, at 4:59 PM, Ann B. Chambless wrote:

          > The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
          > state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
          > estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
          > on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
          > other personal items that might have been included?
          > In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
          > $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
          > slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
          > ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
          > what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
          > estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
          > accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
          > included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
          > help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
          > Ann B. Chambless
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joy Smith
          I think slaves would have been the biggest factor in determining personal estate values. However, when a household was dissolved, a $ value was placed on
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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            I think slaves would have been the biggest factor in determining "personal estate" values. However, when a household was dissolved, a $ value was placed on every item owned - down to bedsteads, china, animals, farm implements, & yes...slaves.

            Joy


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ann B. Chambless
            To: Jackson Co Genealogy
            Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 3:59 PM
            Subject: [jacksongenealogy] 1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES



            The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
            state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
            estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
            on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
            other personal items that might have been included?
            In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
            $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
            slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
            ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
            what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
            estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
            accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
            included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
            help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
            Ann B. Chambless

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martha Wallace
            Williamson R. W. Cobb - what an interesting guy! Are you writing a book about him? There s plenty of story to be unraveled and told! My first thought was that
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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              Williamson R. W. Cobb - what an interesting guy! Are you writing a book about him? There's plenty of story to be unraveled and told!

              My first thought was that there might be records of taxes he paid to the IRS. Those tax records (and the collection of the taxes, which were levied by the US Government to support the war, and extended to southern states as soon as Union troops gained control) were rather spotty in the South, but when I looked I found several other sources. All of these were under the name of Williamson R. W. Cobb, which I hope was unusual enough for them to be about the same person.

              First: There is a large file (54 pages) about him in the Confederate Citizens File. It seems to be about an election to the Confederate Congress which he won and was being contested on the grounds of his actually being a Northern sympathizer, although since I did not read the whole file, my interpretation might be off. At any rate, there are numerous points in the file which might give evidence of his belongings.

              Second: There is a two-page file in the Union Citizens File which attests to his loyalty to the Union. This really doesn't pertain to the question of the value of his estate, but was interesting in light of the previous file.

              Third: There is a file of 114 pages in Southern Claims - Barred and Disallowed
              Claim #5071 for $3433 filed by Bryant Cobb in 1871 after the death of W R W Cobb. Includes detailed letters and descriptions of things people saw on the estate and the possible damage done by Union soldiers, which is the basis of the claim.
              1. 100 bus Corn - $1000
              2. Library, books, & buildings - $2200
              3. 500 lbs Bacon - $125
              4. 6 Hogs - $60
              5. 600 lbs beef - $48
              A note at the end reads:
              "This claim is presented on behalf of the estate of W. R. W. Cobb, deceased.
              "In 1860-61, he was a member of Congress from Ala. - He left Congress, went home & made speeches - said he was going with the South for wead? or wos? - was a candidate in 1861 for the Confederate Congress & defeated - but in 1863 he was elected to the Confederate Congress but never attended any meeting of that body, the witness naively remarking that the federal troops had reached Alabama & interfered with his going.
              "Claim rejected"

              Martha
              Genealogy - So many ancestors...so little time!

              On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Ann B. Chambless wrote:

              > The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
              > state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
              > estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
              > on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
              > other personal items that might have been included?
              > In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
              > $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
              > slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
              > ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
              > what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
              > estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
              > accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
              > included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
              > help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
              > Ann B. Chambless
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cindy Smith
              In one of my Georgia tax records value of personal estate included cash and value of any debts held (IOU s). Cindy To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com From:
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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                In one of my Georgia tax records value of personal estate included cash and value of any debts held (IOU's). Cindy
                To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                From: joy0420@...
                Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 17:41:47 -0600
                Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] 1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES




























                I think slaves would have been the biggest factor in determining "personal estate" values. However, when a household was dissolved, a $ value was placed on every item owned - down to bedsteads, china, animals, farm implements, & yes...slaves.



                Joy



                ----- Original Message -----

                From: Ann B. Chambless

                To: Jackson Co Genealogy

                Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 3:59 PM

                Subject: [jacksongenealogy] 1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES



                The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to

                state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real

                estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based

                on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of

                other personal items that might have been included?

                In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at

                $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18

                slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages

                ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double

                what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)

                estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or

                accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he

                included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to

                help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.

                Ann B. Chambless



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Roger Burbank
                Martha, that is great research, did you find anything on our Williams family or Vann and Mccutchen in the Confederate file?  Roger
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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                  Martha, that is great research, did you find anything on our Williams family or Vann and Mccutchen in the Confederate file?  Roger



                  ________________________________
                  From: Martha Wallace <Marthawsv@...>
                  To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 4:16 PM
                  Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] 1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES


                   
                  Williamson R. W. Cobb - what an interesting guy! Are you writing a book about him? There's plenty of story to be unraveled and told!

                  My first thought was that there might be records of taxes he paid to the IRS. Those tax records (and the collection of the taxes, which were levied by the US Government to support the war, and extended to southern states as soon as Union troops gained control) were rather spotty in the South, but when I looked I found several other sources. All of these were under the name of Williamson R. W. Cobb, which I hope was unusual enough for them to be about the same person.

                  First: There is a large file (54 pages) about him in the Confederate Citizens File. It seems to be about an election to the Confederate Congress which he won and was being contested on the grounds of his actually being a Northern sympathizer, although since I did not read the whole file, my interpretation might be off. At any rate, there are numerous points in the file which might give evidence of his belongings.

                  Second: There is a two-page file in the Union Citizens File which attests to his loyalty to the Union. This really doesn't pertain to the question of the value of his estate, but was interesting in light of the previous file.

                  Third: There is a file of 114 pages in Southern Claims - Barred and Disallowed
                  Claim #5071 for $3433 filed by Bryant Cobb in 1871 after the death of W R W Cobb. Includes detailed letters and descriptions of things people saw on the estate and the possible damage done by Union soldiers, which is the basis of the claim.
                  1. 100 bus Corn - $1000
                  2. Library, books, & buildings - $2200
                  3. 500 lbs Bacon - $125
                  4. 6 Hogs - $60
                  5. 600 lbs beef - $48
                  A note at the end reads:
                  "This claim is presented on behalf of the estate of W. R. W. Cobb, deceased.
                  "In 1860-61, he was a member of Congress from Ala. - He left Congress, went home & made speeches - said he was going with the South for wead? or wos? - was a candidate in 1861 for the Confederate Congress & defeated - but in 1863 he was elected to the Confederate Congress but never attended any meeting of that body, the witness naively remarking that the federal troops had reached Alabama & interfered with his going.
                  "Claim rejected"

                  Martha
                  Genealogy - So many ancestors...so little time!

                  On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Ann B. Chambless wrote:

                  > The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
                  > state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
                  > estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
                  > on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
                  > other personal items that might have been included?
                  > In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
                  > $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
                  > slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
                  > ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
                  > what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
                  > estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
                  > accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
                  > included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
                  > help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
                  > Ann B. Chambless
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martha Wallace
                  Roger, Haven t looked for the Williams or Vanns lately - this is on Fold3 (formerly Footnote), but maybe it s time to see if anything new has popped up - after
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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                    Roger,

                    Haven't looked for the Williams or Vanns lately - this is on Fold3 (formerly Footnote), but maybe it's time to see if anything new has popped up - after I finish my taxes.

                    Martha
                    Genealogy - So many ancestors...so little time!

                    On Mar 3, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Roger Burbank wrote:

                    > Martha, that is great research, did you find anything on our Williams family or Vann and Mccutchen in the Confederate file? Roger
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Martha Wallace <Marthawsv@...>
                    > To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 4:16 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] 1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Williamson R. W. Cobb - what an interesting guy! Are you writing a book about him? There's plenty of story to be unraveled and told!
                    >
                    > My first thought was that there might be records of taxes he paid to the IRS. Those tax records (and the collection of the taxes, which were levied by the US Government to support the war, and extended to southern states as soon as Union troops gained control) were rather spotty in the South, but when I looked I found several other sources. All of these were under the name of Williamson R. W. Cobb, which I hope was unusual enough for them to be about the same person.
                    >
                    > First: There is a large file (54 pages) about him in the Confederate Citizens File. It seems to be about an election to the Confederate Congress which he won and was being contested on the grounds of his actually being a Northern sympathizer, although since I did not read the whole file, my interpretation might be off. At any rate, there are numerous points in the file which might give evidence of his belongings.
                    >
                    > Second: There is a two-page file in the Union Citizens File which attests to his loyalty to the Union. This really doesn't pertain to the question of the value of his estate, but was interesting in light of the previous file.
                    >
                    > Third: There is a file of 114 pages in Southern Claims - Barred and Disallowed
                    > Claim #5071 for $3433 filed by Bryant Cobb in 1871 after the death of W R W Cobb. Includes detailed letters and descriptions of things people saw on the estate and the possible damage done by Union soldiers, which is the basis of the claim.
                    > 1. 100 bus Corn - $1000
                    > 2. Library, books, & buildings - $2200
                    > 3. 500 lbs Bacon - $125
                    > 4. 6 Hogs - $60
                    > 5. 600 lbs beef - $48
                    > A note at the end reads:
                    > "This claim is presented on behalf of the estate of W. R. W. Cobb, deceased.
                    > "In 1860-61, he was a member of Congress from Ala. - He left Congress, went home & made speeches - said he was going with the South for wead? or wos? - was a candidate in 1861 for the Confederate Congress & defeated - but in 1863 he was elected to the Confederate Congress but never attended any meeting of that body, the witness naively remarking that the federal troops had reached Alabama & interfered with his going.
                    > "Claim rejected"
                    >
                    > Martha
                    > Genealogy - So many ancestors...so little time!
                    >
                    > On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Ann B. Chambless wrote:
                    >
                    > > The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
                    > > state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
                    > > estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
                    > > on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
                    > > other personal items that might have been included?
                    > > In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
                    > > $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
                    > > slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
                    > > ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
                    > > what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
                    > > estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
                    > > accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
                    > > included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
                    > > help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
                    > > Ann B. Chambless
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Roger Burbank
                    Confederate Civilian Files! I found them on fold3, they are great. I found Joseph W. Mccutchen delivering Ash to Sauta mines, this Joseph is Calvin Mcc.
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 3, 2012
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                      Confederate Civilian Files!

                      I found them on fold3, they are great. I found Joseph W. Mccutchen delivering Ash to Sauta mines, this Joseph is Calvin Mcc. brother, both sons of Joseph Mcc. sr. So Calvin was guarding the mine and his brother Joseph was delivering ash to make gun powder. I found a lot of names, but it is hard to tell what State the files represent.  Several I looked at do not mention State or County? unless I missed it. There are a lot of duplicate names so be careful you have the right ancestor.  Roger



                      ________________________________
                      From: Martha Wallace <Marthawsv@...>
                      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, March 3, 2012 4:16 PM
                      Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] 1860 FEDERAL CENSUS PERSONAL ESTATE VALUES


                       
                      Williamson R. W. Cobb - what an interesting guy! Are you writing a book about him? There's plenty of story to be unraveled and told!

                      My first thought was that there might be records of taxes he paid to the IRS. Those tax records (and the collection of the taxes, which were levied by the US Government to support the war, and extended to southern states as soon as Union troops gained control) were rather spotty in the South, but when I looked I found several other sources. All of these were under the name of Williamson R. W. Cobb, which I hope was unusual enough for them to be about the same person.

                      First: There is a large file (54 pages) about him in the Confederate Citizens File. It seems to be about an election to the Confederate Congress which he won and was being contested on the grounds of his actually being a Northern sympathizer, although since I did not read the whole file, my interpretation might be off. At any rate, there are numerous points in the file which might give evidence of his belongings.

                      Second: There is a two-page file in the Union Citizens File which attests to his loyalty to the Union. This really doesn't pertain to the question of the value of his estate, but was interesting in light of the previous file.

                      Third: There is a file of 114 pages in Southern Claims - Barred and Disallowed
                      Claim #5071 for $3433 filed by Bryant Cobb in 1871 after the death of W R W Cobb. Includes detailed letters and descriptions of things people saw on the estate and the possible damage done by Union soldiers, which is the basis of the claim.
                      1. 100 bus Corn - $1000
                      2. Library, books, & buildings - $2200
                      3. 500 lbs Bacon - $125
                      4. 6 Hogs - $60
                      5. 600 lbs beef - $48
                      A note at the end reads:
                      "This claim is presented on behalf of the estate of W. R. W. Cobb, deceased.
                      "In 1860-61, he was a member of Congress from Ala. - He left Congress, went home & made speeches - said he was going with the South for wead? or wos? - was a candidate in 1861 for the Confederate Congress & defeated - but in 1863 he was elected to the Confederate Congress but never attended any meeting of that body, the witness naively remarking that the federal troops had reached Alabama & interfered with his going.
                      "Claim rejected"

                      Martha
                      Genealogy - So many ancestors...so little time!

                      On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Ann B. Chambless wrote:

                      > The 1860 Federal census was the first to ask heads of households to
                      > state the value of their personal estate (in addition to their real
                      > estate values). I feel sure a great deal of the value stated was based
                      > on the owner's evaluation of his/her black slaves. Does anyone know of
                      > other personal items that might have been included?
                      > In 1860, Wiliamson R. W. Cobb's personal estate was valued at
                      > $70,000.00. I checked the 1860 Federal Slave Census, and he owned 18
                      > slaves, all 17 years of age or older, except 6 children who whose ages
                      > ranged from 2 to 12. Cobb's estimate of $70,000.00 is almost double
                      > what his neighbors (who owned approximately the same number of blacks)
                      > estimated their personal estate value to be. Was Cobb more honest or
                      > accurate in his estimated value, or did he have other goods that he
                      > included in his personal estate evaluation? Any ideas you may have to
                      > help me obtain a reasonable answer will be appreciated.
                      > Ann B. Chambless
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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