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Martha "Mattie" Sanders

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  • Clay Gullatt
    Jimmie   familysearch.org   Mattie Sanders d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL b. 01 Jan 1861 Widowed: Spouse John Sanders Father: Jesse Evens Mothers:
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 15, 2011
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      Jimmie
       
      familysearch.org
       
      Mattie Sanders
      d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
      b. 01 Jan 1861
      Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
      Father: Jesse Evens
      Mothers: Proctor
       
      Clay

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • billy hill
      thanks to both clay and jimmie. this is confusing isnt it? i have her botn in aug 1863. i think that came from ancestry.com. regardless i wonder what her
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 15, 2011
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        thanks to both clay and jimmie. this is confusing isnt it? i have her botn in aug 1863. i think that came from ancestry.com. regardless i wonder what her mothers real name was? we may never know for sure.


        From: Clay Gullatt <blackcloud27030@...>
        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 6:44 PM
        Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders


         
        Jimmie
         
        familysearch.org
         
        Mattie Sanders
        d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
        b. 01 Jan 1861
        Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
        Father: Jesse Evens
        Mothers: Proctor
         
        Clay

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jimmie Ryan
        Not an actual record coming from family files that were created years ago Clay. ... From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 16, 2011
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          Not an actual record coming from family files that were created years ago
          Clay.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
          Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

          Jimmie
           
          familysearch.org
           
          Mattie Sanders
          d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
          b. 01 Jan 1861
          Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
          Father: Jesse Evens
          Mothers: Proctor
           
          Clay

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy
          group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links
        • Jimmie Ryan
          No that comes from the 1900 US Federal Census - she lied about her age as many women do as the get older.... ... From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 16, 2011
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            No that comes from the 1900 US Federal Census - she lied about her age as many women do as the get older....

            -----Original Message-----
            From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billy hill
            Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 9:03 PM
            To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

            thanks to both clay and jimmie. this is confusing isnt it? i have her botn in aug 1863. i think that came from ancestry.com. regardless i wonder what her mothers real name was? we may never know for sure.


            From: Clay Gullatt <blackcloud27030@...>
            To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 6:44 PM
            Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders



            Jimmie

            familysearch.org

            Mattie Sanders
            d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
            b. 01 Jan 1861
            Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
            Father: Jesse Evens
            Mothers: Proctor

            Clay

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            ------------------------------------

            Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links
          • Jimmie Ryan
            Clay, So does this mean that Cawhorn maiden name was Proctor? And would she be part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family? Jimmie
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 16, 2011
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              Clay,

              So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be
              part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

              Jimmie

              -----Original Message-----
              From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
              Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
              To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

              Jimmie
               
              familysearch.org
               
              Mattie Sanders
              d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
              b. 01 Jan 1861
              Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
              Father: Jesse Evens
              Mothers: Proctor
               
              Clay

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              ------------------------------------

              Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy
              group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links
            • Clay Gullatt
              Jimmie   Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah s maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron.  There is a Lucinda
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 16, 2011
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                Jimmie
                 
                Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah's maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron.  There is a Lucinda Cauhorn/Cawhorn age 4 residing with Thomas J. and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt on the 1850.
                 
                This is interesting because his second wife Sarah Elizabeth Browning Campbell's maiden name was Proctor. She married ca 1848 Joseph Browning b.08 Jul 1828 d.10 Apr 1855, he was son of Benjamin and Rebecca (West) Browning. Sarah Elizabeth and Joseph had three children Caroline b. 1849, Jane b. 1852 and Benjamin  b. 1855. Sarah Elizabeth and the 3 children are listed on the 1860 Census with her mother Cynthia (Martin) Proctor.
                 
                All three of these children apparently died before 1870. I have not found Joseph and Sarah Elizabeth on the 1850 census and except on the 1860 no other record of the children. No marriage record for any of them and there was no mention of them in the settlement of Sarah Eliazabeth's estate after her death in 1872.
                 
                Sarah Elizabeth and T.J. Gullatt had three children Charles "Charley" b. 1865 d. bef.1888, John b. mar 1866 and Julia Ann b. Mar 1870. She had 1 son Joseph D. b. 1861 with James Campbell her second husband. Joseph D. apparently named after her first husband.
                 
                Clay
                 
                -- On Sun, 10/16/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:


                From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 7:32 PM



                 



                Clay,

                So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be
                part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

                Jimmie

                -----Original Message-----
                From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
                To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                Jimmie
                 
                familysearch.org
                 
                Mattie Sanders
                d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
                b. 01 Jan 1861
                Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
                Father: Jesse Evens
                Mothers: Proctor
                 
                Clay

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                ------------------------------------

                Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy
                group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Jimmie Ryan
                Thanks Clay, As always a wealth of knowledge, could it also be a re-marriage name for Delilah? It sure sounds as if the spelling of this name could well be
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 17, 2011
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                  Thanks Clay,

                  As always a wealth of knowledge, could it also be a re-marriage name for Delilah? It sure sounds as if the spelling of this name could well be Cochran... yet I have never seen Lucinda as Delilah.

                  Thanks again Clay for keep the information in order, I have made the necessary correction on both my hard drive copy and internet... Thanks to Mark on his reference to his website, once I reattach my records to my ancestry file (which I accidently deleted and it appears a bug in FTM 2011 merges similar names which has just tore my database apart) I will see if I can find any further clues to this portion of my family file. The Precise family is one of those brick walls, marrying into my ggrandfather, GW Brashear youngest brother Solomon, disappearing before Solomon appears with the family in Texas where he will live out his life with the Messer family.

                  Jimmie

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:04 PM
                  To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                  Jimmie

                  Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah's maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron. There is a Lucinda Cauhorn/Cawhorn age 4 residing with Thomas J. and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt on the 1850.

                  This is interesting because his second wife Sarah Elizabeth Browning Campbell's maiden name was Proctor. She married ca 1848 Joseph Browning b.08 Jul 1828 d.10 Apr 1855, he was son of Benjamin and Rebecca (West) Browning. Sarah Elizabeth and Joseph had three children Caroline b. 1849, Jane b. 1852 and Benjamin b. 1855. Sarah Elizabeth and the 3 children are listed on the 1860 Census with her mother Cynthia (Martin) Proctor.

                  All three of these children apparently died before 1870. I have not found Joseph and Sarah Elizabeth on the 1850 census and except on the 1860 no other record of the children. No marriage record for any of them and there was no mention of them in the settlement of Sarah Eliazabeth's estate after her death in 1872.

                  Sarah Elizabeth and T.J. Gullatt had three children Charles "Charley" b. 1865 d. bef.1888, John b. mar 1866 and Julia Ann b. Mar 1870. She had 1 son Joseph D. b. 1861 with James Campbell her second husband. Joseph D. apparently named after her first husband.

                  Clay

                  -- On Sun, 10/16/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:


                  From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                  Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                  To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 7:32 PM







                  Clay,

                  So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

                  Jimmie

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                  Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
                  To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                  Jimmie

                  familysearch.org

                  Mattie Sanders
                  d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
                  b. 01 Jan 1861
                  Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
                  Father: Jesse Evens
                  Mothers: Proctor

                  Clay

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  ------------------------------------

                  Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links








                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  ------------------------------------

                  Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links
                • Clay Gullatt
                  Jimmie   Delilah/Delila would be too young to have been the mother of Lucinda age 4 in 1850. I could find no Delilah/Delila (any last name) age 12 on
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 17, 2011
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                    Jimmie
                     
                    Delilah/Delila would be too young to have been the mother of Lucinda age 4 in 1850. I could find no Delilah/Delila (any last name) age 12 on the 1850 Jackson Co.Census that matches Delilah (Cawhorn) Evans age 22 as given on the 1860 Census. May have been ophaned sisters.
                     
                    Clay


                    --- On Mon, 10/17/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:


                    From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                    Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                    To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 1:49 PM



                     



                    Thanks Clay,

                    As always a wealth of knowledge, could it also be a re-marriage name for Delilah? It sure sounds as if the spelling of this name could well be Cochran... yet I have never seen Lucinda as Delilah.

                    Thanks again Clay for keep the information in order, I have made the necessary correction on both my hard drive copy and internet... Thanks to Mark on his reference to his website, once I reattach my records to my ancestry file (which I accidently deleted and it appears a bug in FTM 2011 merges similar names which has just tore my database apart) I will see if I can find any further clues to this portion of my family file. The Precise family is one of those brick walls, marrying into my ggrandfather, GW Brashear youngest brother Solomon, disappearing before Solomon appears with the family in Texas where he will live out his life with the Messer family.

                    Jimmie

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                    Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:04 PM
                    To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                    Jimmie

                    Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah's maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron. There is a Lucinda Cauhorn/Cawhorn age 4 residing with Thomas J. and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt on the 1850.

                    This is interesting because his second wife Sarah Elizabeth Browning Campbell's maiden name was Proctor. She married ca 1848 Joseph Browning b.08 Jul 1828 d.10 Apr 1855, he was son of Benjamin and Rebecca (West) Browning. Sarah Elizabeth and Joseph had three children Caroline b. 1849, Jane b. 1852 and Benjamin b. 1855. Sarah Elizabeth and the 3 children are listed on the 1860 Census with her mother Cynthia (Martin) Proctor.

                    All three of these children apparently died before 1870. I have not found Joseph and Sarah Elizabeth on the 1850 census and except on the 1860 no other record of the children. No marriage record for any of them and there was no mention of them in the settlement of Sarah Eliazabeth's estate after her death in 1872.

                    Sarah Elizabeth and T.J. Gullatt had three children Charles "Charley" b. 1865 d. bef.1888, John b. mar 1866 and Julia Ann b. Mar 1870. She had 1 son Joseph D. b. 1861 with James Campbell her second husband. Joseph D. apparently named after her first husband.

                    Clay

                    -- On Sun, 10/16/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                    From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                    Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                    To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 7:32 PM

                    Clay,

                    So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

                    Jimmie

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                    Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
                    To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                    Jimmie

                    familysearch.org

                    Mattie Sanders
                    d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
                    b. 01 Jan 1861
                    Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
                    Father: Jesse Evens
                    Mothers: Proctor

                    Clay

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    ------------------------------------

                    Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Jewel Casey
                    OK, everyone take a look at these dates and see what I see: Mattie Sanders Born: 1-1-1864 someone saw it as 1-1-1861 WRONG, NOT 1861 they saw the the 4 as a 1,
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 17, 2011
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                      OK, everyone take a look at these dates and see what I see:
                      Mattie Sanders
                      Born:
                      1-1-1864 someone saw it as 1-1-1861 WRONG,
                      NOT 1861 they saw the the 4 as a 1, this happens a lot of times so it has been recorded wrong in many places.


                      Mattie Sanders
                      Born 1 Jan. 1864
                      Died 11 Apr 1935


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Clay Gullatt
                      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:39 PM
                      Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders



                      Jimmie

                      Delilah/Delila would be too young to have been the mother of Lucinda age 4 in 1850. I could find no Delilah/Delila (any last name) age 12 on the 1850 Jackson Co.Census that matches Delilah (Cawhorn) Evans age 22 as given on the 1860 Census. May have been ophaned sisters.

                      Clay

                      --- On Mon, 10/17/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                      From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                      Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 1:49 PM



                      Thanks Clay,

                      As always a wealth of knowledge, could it also be a re-marriage name for Delilah? It sure sounds as if the spelling of this name could well be Cochran... yet I have never seen Lucinda as Delilah.

                      Thanks again Clay for keep the information in order, I have made the necessary correction on both my hard drive copy and internet... Thanks to Mark on his reference to his website, once I reattach my records to my ancestry file (which I accidently deleted and it appears a bug in FTM 2011 merges similar names which has just tore my database apart) I will see if I can find any further clues to this portion of my family file. The Precise family is one of those brick walls, marrying into my ggrandfather, GW Brashear youngest brother Solomon, disappearing before Solomon appears with the family in Texas where he will live out his life with the Messer family.

                      Jimmie

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                      Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:04 PM
                      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                      Jimmie

                      Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah's maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron. There is a Lucinda Cauhorn/Cawhorn age 4 residing with Thomas J. and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt on the 1850.

                      This is interesting because his second wife Sarah Elizabeth Browning Campbell's maiden name was Proctor. She married ca 1848 Joseph Browning b.08 Jul 1828 d.10 Apr 1855, he was son of Benjamin and Rebecca (West) Browning. Sarah Elizabeth and Joseph had three children Caroline b. 1849, Jane b. 1852 and Benjamin b. 1855. Sarah Elizabeth and the 3 children are listed on the 1860 Census with her mother Cynthia (Martin) Proctor.

                      All three of these children apparently died before 1870. I have not found Joseph and Sarah Elizabeth on the 1850 census and except on the 1860 no other record of the children. No marriage record for any of them and there was no mention of them in the settlement of Sarah Eliazabeth's estate after her death in 1872.

                      Sarah Elizabeth and T.J. Gullatt had three children Charles "Charley" b. 1865 d. bef.1888, John b. mar 1866 and Julia Ann b. Mar 1870. She had 1 son Joseph D. b. 1861 with James Campbell her second husband. Joseph D. apparently named after her first husband.

                      Clay

                      -- On Sun, 10/16/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                      From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                      Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 7:32 PM

                      Clay,

                      So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

                      Jimmie

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                      Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
                      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                      Jimmie

                      familysearch.org

                      Mattie Sanders
                      d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
                      b. 01 Jan 1861
                      Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
                      Father: Jesse Evens
                      Mothers: Proctor

                      Clay

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ------------------------------------

                      Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      ------------------------------------

                      Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jimmie Ryan
                      Yes; cousin Jewel I saw what the grave stone says, yet what about the rest of the official records; do we just disregard the fact that the 1870 census her very
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 18, 2011
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                        Yes; cousin Jewel I saw what the grave stone says, yet what about the rest of the official records; do we just disregard the fact that the 1870 census her very own parents stated she was born abt 1862, do we ignore the fact that the 1900 census she states her birthdate as Aug 1863. Do we just ignore the Alabama, Deaths and Burials Index, 1881-1974; which has her date of birth as 1 Jan 1861. I can understand since Mattie could neither read or write that there could be a problem with the 1900 census of August vs January... yet all the other records also must be disregarded also since the grave marker has a date on it contrary to the known records of this individual?

                        I know for many reason that the grave marker could and can be wrong, my own mothers birthdate is wrong in the California death index because my own brother did not know the year of my mother's birth, yet Texas Birth Records had her official birth record, so should I dispute that. Once more, the death date on a grave marker and a record in the state/federal are given by those that are there at that time, in Mattie's case I would assume her grandchildren or some other relative or not, it could be an old folks home that did not know her actual age.

                        I am not questioning what the "grave marker" per say, Jewel; but, what the "respondent" knew of the of the Mattie when she passed. I have seen this over and over again, even my own grandmothers date of birth is in question - on her SSI application she has one year (1882, yet her birth was 1892). On the 1900 my great grandparents gave her birth as Oct 1882 date, they were married in 1884, on her death certificate her own son said another, and her SSI application stated another, whom am I to believe - well our family bible answered that question, because her mother wrote in her date of birth as she was born on a farm and no birth certificate was issued for her in Alabama.

                        So simply put, just because a grave marker states an age it does not mean it is fact, ... so I will keep my date of birth since it is supported by the census data and other official records. My other point is also clear, when Mattie died who gave her date of birth, that of course would have to be looked at in the original document and we would have to find out from that person or the family where in fact they got that date (it could have also just been a convalescent home employee). I mean no disrespect to you Jewel, but the records cannot all be wrong because of a possible mistake by the "grave stone maker!"

                        Cuz Jimmie

                        Official Records below:

                        1870 United States Federal Census about Martha C Evans

                        Name: Martha C Evans
                        Birth Year: abt 1862
                        Age in 1870: 8
                        Birthplace: Alabama
                        Home in 1870: Subdivision 3, Jackson, Alabama
                        Race: White
                        Gender: Female
                        Value of real estate: View image
                        Post Office: Scottsboro

                        1880 United States Federal Census about Mattie Sanders

                        Name: Mattie Sanders
                        Home in 1880: Jackson, Alabama
                        Age: 16
                        Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 (GEE LOOK 2 YEARS OLDER!)
                        Birthplace: Alabama
                        Relation to Head of Household: Wife
                        Spouse's Name: J. W. Sanders
                        Father's birthplace: Alabama
                        Mother's birthplace: Alabama
                        Neighbors: View others on page
                        Occupation: House Keeper
                        Marital Status: Married
                        Race: White
                        Gender: Female

                        1900 United States Federal Census about Martha J Sanders

                        Name: Martha J Sanders
                        Home in 1900: Trenton, Jackson, Alabama
                        Age: 36
                        Birth Date: Aug 1863 (GEE ANOTHER AGE COMPLETELY, nowhere close to January, but could be an enumerators problem?)
                        Birthplace: Alabama
                        Race: White
                        Gender: Female
                        Relationship to head-of-house: Wife
                        Father's Birthplace: Alabama
                        Mother's Birthplace: Alabama
                        Mother: number of living children: 8
                        Mother: How many children: 10
                        Spouse's Name: John W Sanders
                        Marriage year: 1877
                        Marital Status: Married
                        Years married: 23

                        1910 United States Federal Census about Martha A Sanders

                        Name: Martha A Sanders
                        Age in 1910: 44
                        Estimated Birth Year: 1866 (GEE YET ANOTHER AGE, EVEN YOUNGER)
                        Birthplace: Alabama
                        Relation to Head of House: Wife
                        Father's Birth Place: Alabama
                        Mother's Birth Place: Alabama
                        Spouse's Name: John W Sanders
                        Home in 1910: Trenton, Jackson, Alabama
                        Marital Status: Married
                        Race: White
                        Gender: Female

                        1920 United States Federal Census about Martha C Sanders

                        Name: Martha C Sanders
                        [Martha C. Sauders]
                        Home in 1920: Trenton, Jackson, Alabama
                        Age: 58
                        Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 (WOW BACK TO BEING BORN IN 1861!)
                        Birthplace: Alabama
                        Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
                        [Head]
                        Father's Birth Place: Alabama
                        Mother's Birth Place: Alabama
                        Marital Status: Widowed
                        [Widow]
                        Race: White
                        Sex: Female
                        Home owned: Rent
                        Able to read: No
                        Able to Write: No

                        Alabama, Deaths and Burials Index, 1881-1974 about Mattie Sanders (HER OFFICIAL RECORD AS STATED BY A PERSON OF KNOWLEDGE, NOT THE DECEDENT)

                        Name: Mattie Sanders
                        [Mattie Evans]
                        Birth Date: 1 Jan 1861 (AND NOW THE RESPONDED DATE OF BIRTH, and DOB NOT IN AUGUST as SHE herself STATED IN 1900)
                        Death Date: 11 Apr 1935
                        Death Place: Garth, Jackson, Alabama
                        Death Age: 74
                        Race: White
                        Marital Status: Widowed
                        Gender: Female
                        Father Name: Jesse Evans
                        Father Birth Place: Jackson County, Alabama
                        Mother Name: Procter (AND YET ANOTHER ODD ITEM SINCE CLAY SAYS SHE WAS A CAWHOUN)
                        Mother Birth Place: Jackson County, Alabama
                        Spouse Name: John Sanders
                        FHL Film Number: 1908530

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jewel Casey
                        Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:58 PM
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                        OK, everyone take a look at these dates and see what I see:
                        Mattie Sanders
                        Born:
                        1-1-1864 someone saw it as 1-1-1861 WRONG, NOT 1861 they saw the the 4 as a 1, this happens a lot of times so it has been recorded wrong in many places.


                        Mattie Sanders
                        Born 1 Jan. 1864
                        Died 11 Apr 1935


                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Clay Gullatt
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:39 PM
                        Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders



                        Jimmie

                        Delilah/Delila would be too young to have been the mother of Lucinda age 4 in 1850. I could find no Delilah/Delila (any last name) age 12 on the 1850 Jackson Co.Census that matches Delilah (Cawhorn) Evans age 22 as given on the 1860 Census. May have been ophaned sisters.

                        Clay

                        --- On Mon, 10/17/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                        From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                        Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 1:49 PM



                        Thanks Clay,

                        As always a wealth of knowledge, could it also be a re-marriage name for Delilah? It sure sounds as if the spelling of this name could well be Cochran... yet I have never seen Lucinda as Delilah.

                        Thanks again Clay for keep the information in order, I have made the necessary correction on both my hard drive copy and internet... Thanks to Mark on his reference to his website, once I reattach my records to my ancestry file (which I accidently deleted and it appears a bug in FTM 2011 merges similar names which has just tore my database apart) I will see if I can find any further clues to this portion of my family file. The Precise family is one of those brick walls, marrying into my ggrandfather, GW Brashear youngest brother Solomon, disappearing before Solomon appears with the family in Texas where he will live out his life with the Messer family.

                        Jimmie

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                        Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:04 PM
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                        Jimmie

                        Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah's maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron. There is a Lucinda Cauhorn/Cawhorn age 4 residing with Thomas J. and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt on the 1850.

                        This is interesting because his second wife Sarah Elizabeth Browning Campbell's maiden name was Proctor. She married ca 1848 Joseph Browning b.08 Jul 1828 d.10 Apr 1855, he was son of Benjamin and Rebecca (West) Browning. Sarah Elizabeth and Joseph had three children Caroline b. 1849, Jane b. 1852 and Benjamin b. 1855. Sarah Elizabeth and the 3 children are listed on the 1860 Census with her mother Cynthia (Martin) Proctor.

                        All three of these children apparently died before 1870. I have not found Joseph and Sarah Elizabeth on the 1850 census and except on the 1860 no other record of the children. No marriage record for any of them and there was no mention of them in the settlement of Sarah Eliazabeth's estate after her death in 1872.

                        Sarah Elizabeth and T.J. Gullatt had three children Charles "Charley" b. 1865 d. bef.1888, John b. mar 1866 and Julia Ann b. Mar 1870. She had 1 son Joseph D. b. 1861 with James Campbell her second husband. Joseph D. apparently named after her first husband.

                        Clay

                        -- On Sun, 10/16/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                        From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                        Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 7:32 PM

                        Clay,

                        So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

                        Jimmie

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                        Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
                        To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                        Jimmie

                        familysearch.org

                        Mattie Sanders
                        d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
                        b. 01 Jan 1861
                        Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
                        Father: Jesse Evens
                        Mothers: Proctor

                        Clay

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        ------------------------------------

                        Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        ------------------------------------

                        Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                        ------------------------------------

                        Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links
                      • Jewel Casey
                        Cousin Jimmy, I know that you mean no disrespect to me and you re correct, the records cannot all be wrong because of a possible mistake made by the grave
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 2, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Cousin Jimmy, I know that you mean no disrespect to me and you're correct, the records cannot all be wrong because of a possible mistake made by the "grave stone maker!" Because the "gravestone maker" didn't make the mistake.

                          How do we know who gave the information to the gravestone maker? Where did they get?

                          Let's go back to the 1870 census, Martha A. Evans was 8 years old, how do we know who gave that information to the census taker. I'm not going to argue with anyone about this because we all know that sometimes relatives gave the information and it wasn't always correct! So we'll assume Mattie was born ca 1861/62. Her mother was deceased, right?

                          We go to the 1800 census which was taken June 16th. Mattie was married, says she was 16 years old. If her birthday was in January she was already 16 when the census was taken, she was born 1864, if her birthday was in August she was born in 1863, she hasn't had her birthday yet.

                          On the 1900 census Martha J. says she was born Aug 1863, this census was taken June 2nd. She will be 37 in August which is correct. Doesn't matter if she can read or write!! Now, if the month of August isn't correct you can blame the census taker for this error. The years of marriage are wrong in 1900. They were married 15 Feb 1880 making it ca 20 years, not 23 years, the ages on the 1910, 1920 and the years of marriages is again incorrect.

                          So yes, cousin Jimmy, I think you can disregard any official records you choose to disregard on your OWN genealogy records. Each family tries to check out all the correct records they can get and prove them and yet sometimes even our own family bible records are incorrect. Not being able to read and write they were not able to keep records and soon forgot important data.

                          You know what happens when Aunt Susie dies? Nobody knows her birthday so they guess when she was born because to them it doesn't matter whether it was June or July, they just slapped a date on there to get it over with. So you and I come along and say "Well, the 1900 census says she was born in January." So there you have in a nutshell, go with it. Congratulations, you figured it out. But what month was she born in? We look at the grave marker and Uncle Clyde put on there she was born in November. Whose official record is correct?

                          Jewel


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Jimmie Ryan
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:30 PM
                          Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders



                          Yes; cousin Jewel I saw what the grave stone says, yet what about the rest of the official records; do we just disregard the fact that the 1870 census her very own parents stated she was born abt 1862, do we ignore the fact that the 1900 census she states her birthdate as Aug 1863. Do we just ignore the Alabama, Deaths and Burials Index, 1881-1974; which has her date of birth as 1 Jan 1861. I can understand since Mattie could neither read or write that there could be a problem with the 1900 census of August vs January... yet all the other records also must be disregarded also since the grave marker has a date on it contrary to the known records of this individual?

                          I know for many reason that the grave marker could and can be wrong, my own mothers birthdate is wrong in the California death index because my own brother did not know the year of my mother's birth, yet Texas Birth Records had her official birth record, so should I dispute that. Once more, the death date on a grave marker and a record in the state/federal are given by those that are there at that time, in Mattie's case I would assume her grandchildren or some other relative or not, it could be an old folks home that did not know her actual age.

                          I am not questioning what the "grave marker" per say, Jewel; but, what the "respondent" knew of the of the Mattie when she passed. I have seen this over and over again, even my own grandmothers date of birth is in question - on her SSI application she has one year (1882, yet her birth was 1892). On the 1900 my great grandparents gave her birth as Oct 1882 date, they were married in 1884, on her death certificate her own son said another, and her SSI application stated another, whom am I to believe - well our family bible answered that question, because her mother wrote in her date of birth as she was born on a farm and no birth certificate was issued for her in Alabama.

                          So simply put, just because a grave marker states an age it does not mean it is fact, ... so I will keep my date of birth since it is supported by the census data and other official records. My other point is also clear, when Mattie died who gave her date of birth, that of course would have to be looked at in the original document and we would have to find out from that person or the family where in fact they got that date (it could have also just been a convalescent home employee). I mean no disrespect to you Jewel, but the records cannot all be wrong because of a possible mistake by the "grave stone maker!"

                          Cuz Jimmie

                          Official Records below:

                          1870 United States Federal Census about Martha C Evans

                          Name: Martha C Evans
                          Birth Year: abt 1862
                          Age in 1870: 8
                          Birthplace: Alabama
                          Home in 1870: Subdivision 3, Jackson, Alabama
                          Race: White
                          Gender: Female
                          Value of real estate: View image
                          Post Office: Scottsboro

                          1880 United States Federal Census about Mattie Sanders

                          Name: Mattie Sanders
                          Home in 1880: Jackson, Alabama
                          Age: 16
                          Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 (GEE LOOK 2 YEARS OLDER!)
                          Birthplace: Alabama
                          Relation to Head of Household: Wife
                          Spouse's Name: J. W. Sanders
                          Father's birthplace: Alabama
                          Mother's birthplace: Alabama
                          Neighbors: View others on page
                          Occupation: House Keeper
                          Marital Status: Married
                          Race: White
                          Gender: Female

                          1900 United States Federal Census about Martha J Sanders

                          Name: Martha J Sanders
                          Home in 1900: Trenton, Jackson, Alabama
                          Age: 36
                          Birth Date: Aug 1863 (GEE ANOTHER AGE COMPLETELY, nowhere close to January, but could be an enumerators problem?)
                          Birthplace: Alabama
                          Race: White
                          Gender: Female
                          Relationship to head-of-house: Wife
                          Father's Birthplace: Alabama
                          Mother's Birthplace: Alabama
                          Mother: number of living children: 8
                          Mother: How many children: 10
                          Spouse's Name: John W Sanders
                          Marriage year: 1877
                          Marital Status: Married
                          Years married: 23

                          1910 United States Federal Census about Martha A Sanders

                          Name: Martha A Sanders
                          Age in 1910: 44
                          Estimated Birth Year: 1866 (GEE YET ANOTHER AGE, EVEN YOUNGER)
                          Birthplace: Alabama
                          Relation to Head of House: Wife
                          Father's Birth Place: Alabama
                          Mother's Birth Place: Alabama
                          Spouse's Name: John W Sanders
                          Home in 1910: Trenton, Jackson, Alabama
                          Marital Status: Married
                          Race: White
                          Gender: Female

                          1920 United States Federal Census about Martha C Sanders

                          Name: Martha C Sanders
                          [Martha C. Sauders]
                          Home in 1920: Trenton, Jackson, Alabama
                          Age: 58
                          Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 (WOW BACK TO BEING BORN IN 1861!)
                          Birthplace: Alabama
                          Relation to Head of House: Self (Head)
                          [Head]
                          Father's Birth Place: Alabama
                          Mother's Birth Place: Alabama
                          Marital Status: Widowed
                          [Widow]
                          Race: White
                          Sex: Female
                          Home owned: Rent
                          Able to read: No
                          Able to Write: No

                          Alabama, Deaths and Burials Index, 1881-1974 about Mattie Sanders (HER OFFICIAL RECORD AS STATED BY A PERSON OF KNOWLEDGE, NOT THE DECEDENT)

                          Name: Mattie Sanders
                          [Mattie Evans]
                          Birth Date: 1 Jan 1861 (AND NOW THE RESPONDED DATE OF BIRTH, and DOB NOT IN AUGUST as SHE herself STATED IN 1900)
                          Death Date: 11 Apr 1935
                          Death Place: Garth, Jackson, Alabama
                          Death Age: 74
                          Race: White
                          Marital Status: Widowed
                          Gender: Female
                          Father Name: Jesse Evans
                          Father Birth Place: Jackson County, Alabama
                          Mother Name: Procter (AND YET ANOTHER ODD ITEM SINCE CLAY SAYS SHE WAS A CAWHOUN)
                          Mother Birth Place: Jackson County, Alabama
                          Spouse Name: John Sanders
                          FHL Film Number: 1908530

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jewel Casey
                          Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 6:58 PM
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                          OK, everyone take a look at these dates and see what I see:
                          Mattie Sanders
                          Born:
                          1-1-1864 someone saw it as 1-1-1861 WRONG, NOT 1861 they saw the the 4 as a 1, this happens a lot of times so it has been recorded wrong in many places.

                          Mattie Sanders
                          Born 1 Jan. 1864
                          Died 11 Apr 1935

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Clay Gullatt
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 1:39 PM
                          Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                          Jimmie

                          Delilah/Delila would be too young to have been the mother of Lucinda age 4 in 1850. I could find no Delilah/Delila (any last name) age 12 on the 1850 Jackson Co.Census that matches Delilah (Cawhorn) Evans age 22 as given on the 1860 Census. May have been ophaned sisters.

                          Clay

                          --- On Mon, 10/17/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                          From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                          Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Monday, October 17, 2011, 1:49 PM

                          Thanks Clay,

                          As always a wealth of knowledge, could it also be a re-marriage name for Delilah? It sure sounds as if the spelling of this name could well be Cochran... yet I have never seen Lucinda as Delilah.

                          Thanks again Clay for keep the information in order, I have made the necessary correction on both my hard drive copy and internet... Thanks to Mark on his reference to his website, once I reattach my records to my ancestry file (which I accidently deleted and it appears a bug in FTM 2011 merges similar names which has just tore my database apart) I will see if I can find any further clues to this portion of my family file. The Precise family is one of those brick walls, marrying into my ggrandfather, GW Brashear youngest brother Solomon, disappearing before Solomon appears with the family in Texas where he will live out his life with the Messer family.

                          Jimmie

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                          Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:04 PM
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                          Jimmie

                          Might well be that Proctor was Deliliah's maiden and she had married a Cawhorn. Cawhorn may be misspelling of Cochron. There is a Lucinda Cauhorn/Cawhorn age 4 residing with Thomas J. and Martha Elizabeth (Clark) Gullatt on the 1850.

                          This is interesting because his second wife Sarah Elizabeth Browning Campbell's maiden name was Proctor. She married ca 1848 Joseph Browning b.08 Jul 1828 d.10 Apr 1855, he was son of Benjamin and Rebecca (West) Browning. Sarah Elizabeth and Joseph had three children Caroline b. 1849, Jane b. 1852 and Benjamin b. 1855. Sarah Elizabeth and the 3 children are listed on the 1860 Census with her mother Cynthia (Martin) Proctor.

                          All three of these children apparently died before 1870. I have not found Joseph and Sarah Elizabeth on the 1850 census and except on the 1860 no other record of the children. No marriage record for any of them and there was no mention of them in the settlement of Sarah Eliazabeth's estate after her death in 1872.

                          Sarah Elizabeth and T.J. Gullatt had three children Charles "Charley" b. 1865 d. bef.1888, John b. mar 1866 and Julia Ann b. Mar 1870. She had 1 son Joseph D. b. 1861 with James Campbell her second husband. Joseph D. apparently named after her first husband.

                          Clay

                          -- On Sun, 10/16/11, Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...> wrote:

                          From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
                          Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 7:32 PM

                          Clay,

                          So does this mean that "Cawhorn" maiden name was Proctor? And would she be part of the Proctor family that surrounds Jesse Evans and his family?

                          Jimmie

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Clay Gullatt
                          Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:45 PM
                          To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [jacksongenealogy] Martha "Mattie" Sanders

                          Jimmie

                          familysearch.org

                          Mattie Sanders
                          d. 11 Apr 1935 at Garth, Jackson Co. AL
                          b. 01 Jan 1861
                          Widowed: Spouse John Sanders
                          Father: Jesse Evens
                          Mothers: Proctor

                          Clay

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ------------------------------------

                          Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ------------------------------------

                          Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          ------------------------------------

                          Thank you for being a member of the Jackson County, Alabama genealogy group.God bless AmericaYahoo! Groups Links





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Jimmie Ryan
                          No problem Jewel, you had already sent me this information (see below) - it s fascinating how you can determine age from the census - so thank you for showing
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 3, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            No problem Jewel, you had already sent me this information (see below) - it's fascinating how you can determine age from the census - so thank you for showing me your wisdom in reading census information. Thanks again, I am not just picking a date out of thin air... I am just taking the official Alabama Death Index as the date of birth: 1 Jan 1861, since we cannot determine if Aug or Jan was her birthday, so that was all it was, and if you take your same logic, looking at the 1870 and 1880 census the date of birth on the 1880 census should have been 1862, as it was in 1870 - as she is only claiming to be 16 years of age, as she was 8 in 1870, math would be 8 + 10 would have made her 18 not 16 as the census clearly states - so the census is wrong and the 1880 census should have stated her birth year as 1862, so the age of 16 would be correct, it was just the census enumerator put the wrong year in and that was miss-indexed, yet this makes 2 records that say 1861 (approximate birth date)... then you go to her age of death: 74 in 1935... again 1861.

                            I do so appreciate your interpretation of the census data, and yes we do have three with variation of dates (1900 living with her family, 1910 living around her family, 1920 living next door to her family, and have not found her on the 1930 census, probably sick and with her family dying)... yet somehow we have to look at something for a baseline... your choice the cemetery record, fine - I chose the preponderance of evidence, which clearly indicates she was born in 1861, and not 1863/4... even in death her respondent stated she was 74 years old (interesting 1861, again).

                            As for this posting, it took a full week to get to the list... so we had already emailed each other personally over this, so I apologies if this "delayed" posting rehashed this out once more, I cannot explain why it took so long for this post to show up on the list a few days ago (my original send date: Tue 10/18/2011 12:30 PM).

                            Cuz Jimmie

                            Alabama, Deaths and Burials Index, 1881-1974 about Mattie Sanders

                            Name: Mattie Sanders
                            [Mattie Evans]
                            Birth Date: 1 Jan 1861
                            Death Date: 11 Apr 1935
                            Death Place: Garth, Jackson, Alabama
                            Death Age: 74
                            Race: White
                            Marital Status: Widowed
                            Gender: Female
                            Father Name: Jesse Evans
                            Father Birth Place: Jackson County, Alabama
                            Mother Name: Procter (AND YET ANOTHER ODD ITEM SINCE CLAY SAYS SHE WAS A CAWHOUN)
                            Mother Birth Place: Jackson County, Alabama
                            Spouse Name: John Sanders
                            FHL Film Number: 1908530

                            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - -

                            Your message to me: Sat 10/22/2011 5:48 PM (my input in "()")

                            Jimmy you're not listening to me!!!!!!
                            The census didn't say anything about 1899....

                            On the 1900 census she was 36 years old, the census had just been taken on June 2, 1900, therefore she had just had her last birthdate AUGUST 1899. (YOU STATED AUGUST 1899)
                            So on August 1, 1900, she would be 37 years old.

                            She said her birthday was August 1863. The grave marker has 1st of the month. So yes I'm saying that she was born 1 August 1863, that's what the census says. (NOW 1 AUG 1863)

                            (Do we just ignore the Alabama, Deaths and Burials Index, 1881-1974; which has her date of birth as 1 Jan 1861.) Where did they get this? Only the 1870 census has that possible date of 1861.

                            Here again THE CENSUS didn't say anything, I"M saying that The 1870 census was taken on June 1, 1870 and Martha was 8 years old in Aug 1869-8=1861 meaning she was born 1861. (NOW SHE IS BORN IN 1861)

                            OK lets go to 1880, census taken June 16, 1880. J.W. Sanders was 20 last birthday in Aug. 1879-20=1859 making him born Aug, 1859. correct. (NOW AUG 1859, which would have meant she would appear on the 1860 census?)

                            That's when he was born. (IT’S A FEMALE NOT A MALE)

                            Mattie was 16 her last birthday in Aug. 1879-16=1863 making her born Aug. 1863. (NOW BACK TO AUG 1863)

                            No, you cannot change any records! You cannot change the spelling of anything! But Martha (Evans) Sanders SAID she was born AUG. 1863 on the 1900 census. Now, if this is the CORRECT woman, and that is yet to be proven, but if this is the CORRECT woman, then she was born August 1863, doesn't matter what the grave marker or the death certificate says. WHY, because SHE didn't fill those papers out! Someone else did those for her. (THEN WE NOW DISPUTE IF IT IS IN FACT MARTHA EVANS SANDERS)

                            I take all these official records with a grain of salt, especially the old ones.

                            Jewel
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