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RE: [jacksongenealogy] Cherokee populations

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  • Jimmie Ryan
    Superior Technology: not living in their own sewage (bacterial diseases were common in Europe; while here it killed most of the native people as they had
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 29, 2010
      Superior Technology: not living in their own sewage (bacterial diseases were common in Europe; while here it killed most of the native people as they had never see sewage born disease); caring for their environment (unlike our throwaway society [then and now], them utilizing what they needed and no more - instead of standing on rail cars just for the sport of killing (like the helicopter to kill a bear!); farming practices (Europe wore out the ground then moved on to only find they had no more land so food shortages, Native People rotation of crops; did not overtax there hunting grounds (over fish, hunt, it was not a sport but a necessary item to maintain life; unlike today when we find out there is "just no more," and that makes us stop).

      I am sure the "European trade good" were like today's "bling," and once one tribe got something shinny they all had to have it, we forget they had a communication system from coast to coast way before our telegraph. They did not understand what it was; and what it was used for fascinated them I am sure; like when we got a new toy in each different Christmas (wooden block toys compared to later energy driven toys that ended up in never ending landfills). They did not have cannon or shot... so the ease of use must of got to them, even though there technology/understanding of hunting was far superior to our "caveman" kill in every direction with a shot blast mentality of today. We also must accept that we were baiting one tribe against the other with not only weapons; but also cloth - something else unseen in this "new" world.

      Greed, as in all empires it is the thirst for land and power; as we know today millions of our "protected people of resettlement" died at our own hands, for no more reason then a wagon of rotten mean. The accountability and the time it took to provide what was promised to these same people that we secured our present day borders also warrens a description of greed. It is the only word that best describes manifest destiny that overtook the US after the revolutionary war.

      Europeans did not want land; per say, they wanted new empires; new places to dominate as European royalty had so many "princes" that they needed more world to control and create wealth (notice it is still the same today).

      If we wanted just land then all the people would have lived nicely together and there would not have been this overreaching need to "remove" people from what was centuries their land and make it ours (I suppose much like how today we seem to be going back to the 1300s and wanting everything behind walls).

      Jimmie



      -----Original Message-----
      From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jrytrplt@...
      Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 3:26 PM
      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Cherokee populations

      Jimmie - Thanks for the reply. Good discussion. That is what I was looking for - a discussion. Don't take this as disagreement by me- how was the NA technology superior? Farming practices? Was the desire for European trade goods by the Native Americans an example of greed? Was the desire for Native American land by the Europeans an example of greed?





      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jimmie Ryan <altafae@...>
      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 6:02 pm
      Subject: RE: [jacksongenealogy] Cherokee populations




      I wonder if the word blame is even appropriate, cultures adapt to change, some by passing into history yet most by integration into whatever is more powerful an ideal or mindset. There would be those that would say it was the Native's fault, yet I wonder when we look back at what they left us if it was just there technology, which in some ways was superior - yet in others (arrow vs. gun powder) woefully inadequate. As a child of God I would like to believe we have a natural order to things, yet in the back of my mind's eye I continue to see it driven by greed, ego, and the want to be the only "right" thing or as it became the dominant culture prevailed without consideration of what was lost in the process.

      In the end we will never know, as we not only lost the culture of these peoples around the globe by conquest. Some of their "cultural items" (planting corn; cotton) are so integrated within our culture you see today in our culture still (like the Cherokee sense of community and farming practices that were not common in Europe in the early 1600s). I am not sure why this should cause a "hornet's nest" response; we must discuss things in order to allow the truth to come forward so we can change to a brighter bath - to only lie to oneself (create knowledge that is only in one point of view) would only perpetuate the myth.

      Jimmie in cooler Southern California (111 degree's here on the coast of California, hottest since 1877)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jrytrplt@...
      Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:53 PM
      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Cherokee populations

      Well, I may stir up a hornet's nest but here goes.

      I am fascinated by Cherokee history and of late have become very interested in the history of the southeast in the 1700's. In particular, the interaction between Spanish, French and English sanctioned Indian Traders and the Native Americans. Study of the Indian Trader period of late 1600's to the end of the Rev War in 1783 indicates that the Cherokees and the Creeks (I've read more about them) welcomed the traders into their villages and into their daughter's beds. Each had what the other wanted - usually the case in free trade. The Creeks and the Cherokees wanted guns, power and shot, iron pots, fabric, axes, etc. The Traders wanted deer skins to sell to Europe for uniforms for the European wars. Of interest to me was that a gun (at one time) was worth 25 deer hides. A red long-tailed frock coat was worth 25 deer hides. Interesting. Seem like items of equal value to you? It can be argued that by the end of the Rev War that Native American culture was dead or so bad
      ly wounded by trade that the tribes were neither NA or English but somewhere in a no man's land between the two.

      Now, it can be argued that the land above the Tennessee River to the Tennessee line was not "taken" (at least not forcibly) from the Cherokee. That rather, two parties negotiated and reached a "deal" whereby the land was ceded to the United States. An extreme view, I will admit but worthy of some consideration and thought.

      Here is my "hornet's nest" question: What part of the "blame" for the eventual condition of the Native American tribes in the Southeast lies with the NA's themselves? Do them have some responsibility? Did they, over a period of perhaps a century, contribute to their own demise? Did the quest for a better life with modern convencieces (iron pots and peaches) lead them astray?

      Care to comment?

      Now, I will admit that I have been "attacked" for even raising this issue. But with the Trail of Tears selling as well as it does these days, it might be worthy of passing thought.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: RON aKINS <akinsron@...>
      To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, Sep 29, 2010 4:11 pm
      Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Cherokee populations

      My ancestors William and Elizabeth Akins are buried in the Carmel Cemetary. I was there many years ago. The Stewarts are also related to me.That area was taken from the Cherokee. Were your Matthews in GA before they came to AL? Ron Akins

      --- On Tue, 9/28/10, Richard Matthews <messabout@...> wrote:

      > From: Richard Matthews <messabout@...>
      > Subject: Re: [jacksongenealogy] Cherokee populations
      > To: jacksongenealogy@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, September 28, 2010, 12:08 PM
      > This might help
      >
      > http://coweeta.uga.edu/publications/10289.pdf
      >
      > ...................................................................................................................................................
      > > I do not know of a book - I wish that I did - but my
      > GGrandmother was
      > > Martha Louise Jarrett/Peacock and she was full
      > Cherokee. She was born in
      > > South Carolina, believed to be Spartanburg. Her
      > parents were Zadock Jarrett
      > > and Cynthia Minerva Linder/Jarrett - they are buried
      > at City Cemetery (old
      > > McReynolds Cemetery behind McReynolds school - now the
      > City Barn in South
      > > Pittsburg).
      > >
      > > Martha and her husband, Francis Marion Peacock are
      > buried at Mt. Carmel
      > > Baptist Church Cemetery in Jackson County, Alabama.
      > There are other
      > > relatives buried there. Some of the relatives lived in
      > South Pittsburg and
      > > others floated back and forth across the line and
      > lived in Jackson County,
      > > Alabama. There are pages for them, many with pictures,
      > on
      > > www.findagrave.com of these relatives. If you are kin
      > to the Linder's,
      > > Jarrett's or Peacock's, please let me know. Judy K.
      > Brantley/Wilson
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Richard Matthews
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > jacksongenealogy-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >

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